Ukraine Crisis - Page 71

On February 25 2014 01:59 DeepElemBlues wrote:


Only to Russians and people who forget how weak the far right really is.



You make me want to smack my head into a cinderblock.

Both 18% and 20% are larger than 10.44%... there are areas in France and Austria where the far right also gets 30% of the vote... and a little bit more sometimes as well. I'm sure there places in the Ukraine where the far right gets 50%+.

Now compare those numbers to a fantasy world where eastern Ukraine doesn't count because of another fantasy where eastern Ukrainians are super-pissed and ready to do something about it over what western Ukrainians have done... there have been pro-Maidan as well as anti-Maidan demonstrations in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, several eastern government officials have said they will not support splitting the country, several others who were more defiant against the new Kiev have actually fled to Russia. The situation is not so clear cut as the caricature that the country is sharply divided literally at the middle.

So slice a bit here dice a bit there bibbity bobbity boo and so what are you saying that isn't either simply wrong or so self-serving as to beggar belief that we should accept it as reasonable. Hey if I decided that certain areas of a country don't count just because it suits me I could make any country look any way I wanted. If only I could get people to buy it. But they don't buy that crap.



Now we get to pick and choose who in the far right is actually in the far right because, wait for it, it suits you!

National Front members have been ambivalent about or defensive of the Nazis and Nazism, they keep it tamped down to get more votes these days but it was not so long ago and by that I mean just a few short years that the National Front and the smaller associated groups were doing things like - if not celebrating - defending the conduct of the German occupation of France during the war.

http://wahl13.bmi.gv.at/

I thought fascism was fascism whether urban or rural but hey the rules are whatever you and Putin need them to be today. The far right is not invisible Austrian cities.

The far right in the Ukraine is certainly more violent but I just can't seem to recall them being as violent as they were last week until elite robocops tried to steamroll them and everybody else and failed.

I'll give it to you guys you keep the discussion focused on the far right while besides "patrolling Kiev" (you do know the police and military and interior ministry troops went over to the Maidan, right?) what has the far right really done since Yanukovych left. Their leaders aren't in the conversation for winning the presidency or prime ministership after the new elections. They don't have anywhere near the numbers to take over against all the forces of the new government plus their current protester comrades. But whatever, it serves Russia more to be stubborn and ridiculous than take the greater humiliation of admitting defeat in the Ukraine, so a frenzy about fascists will continue.

And hey didn't a certain country rule the Ukraine during most of the last century and didn't it spend most of that time trying to make the Ukraine more like it, suppressing the Ukrainian culture and language? Which country is Yanukovych and the Yanukovych society a client for? Seems to me that if Ukraine is infested with fascists, we know exactly which country created the environment that bred them.

Don't we now?

On February 25 2014 01:59 DeepElemBlues wrote:


Only to Russians and people who forget how weak the far right really is.

@Cheerio

Show me whom should I blame? I'm so frustrated due to this, my dad may loose his job cause he's in Metalist structure, and I may loose my sports school.

On February 25 2014 02:25 Cheerio wrote:
The stock market in Ukraine rose by 15,21%. It's tiny though, but shows that investors react positively to the events.


1 year ago the previous owner, local oligarh Yaroslavskyy, was forced to sell Metalist to some Yanukovich "Family" members. Since most of the income of the "Family" depended on corruption and because of the latest complications all resources were aimed at fighting Euromaidan, the club was left with no financing for the last 3 months (exactly when the protests started). So you are asking me who is to blame? I guess the answer is obvious.

On February 24 2014 18:02 Ghanburighan wrote:


At first I was like, what does this actually mean? Then I realized that you're assuming due process. No, the judges were coerced into making that ruling, with 4 judges retiring in protest, so Yanukovich could get exactly the verdict he needed. There was nothing legitimate and legal about it. So, no, the constitution isn't to blame, it's the corrupt government.

On February 25 2014 02:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:


And you know what's the funniest thing comes to my mind? My grandpa fought second world war agains fascism and nazis, and what's now? Potentially, 70 years later I may continue to do his "job", but the funniest things that all those fascist comes from my country! :DDD

Even tho I don't belive in this bullshit.

And I dare u, that bunch of idiots with 14/88 on their shields doesn't mean our country is infested by them at every pore.

@Cheerio

Show me whom should I blame? I'm so frustrated due to this, my dad may loose his job cause he's in Metalist structure, and I may loose my sports school.

On February 25 2014 02:35 Roman666 wrote:

I tell you who to blame. Sorry for saying this, but for example, you could blame your parents' generation for tolerating this shit that Yanukovich, Timoshenko and others were doing to your country. Corruption runs rampart across Ukraine and it would not be so if public opinion would not consider it something normal. Now finally people decided to do something about it, hopefully for Ukraine it won't end like the 2004 failure where a cowardly crook was replaced with bloodthirsty gas queen.

Don't take it personal, I have nothing against you and your folks, but many Ukrainians are responsible for the hell they are in now. I do not know the reasons, perhaps they were raised in such society and it was a norm. Believe me, when 10 guys controls 30% of your GDP something is very fucking wrong.

Now that your country reached almost bottom it will be tough time for everyone there. I wish you all the best guys, but there is no easy way for getting back to a decent economical level from where you are as a country now. And believe me, the money that Russia wanted to give you was a patch. Patch that would ensure well being of current corruption, because this is what Russia wants - that Ukraine would be its weak subject, not strong self-sustainable country. You need a long term solution, not pumping billions into your corrupt economy. Without structural changes, this year you pump 15 billions, next year 30 billions and suddenly you are on a Moscow leash again with 45 billions of debt. Look at Belarus now, the country which stayed with Russia. Everyone there has the same amount of goods, just enough not to die, and very shit besides it.

On February 25 2014 02:34 zlefin wrote:


A good constitution has many safeguards in place to prevent that kind of thing. And I did not assume due process, a good constitution should be resistant to attempts to violate that as well. so I stand by my assertion that it doesn't sound that robust. Though if you'd like to provide more details I'd love to listen.

On February 25 2014 02:45 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:


So u didn't said whom should I blame directly, u just said "hopefully it won't be the same like was 2004". Well, that's inspiring me... :D Hope is the last thing i want to belive in. I hope my kids will grow up in a strong country, I hope my government will be less corrupted, let's hope! Wooooo, gonna bring some champagne.

So should I blame Putin, Yanukovich, Tymoshenko, my parents, revolutioneers, U.S. department of state, masons, myself or reptiloids?

Yea, we are responsible in some ways, I'm responsible for a place I was born in :/

On February 25 2014 02:45 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:


So u didn't said whom should I blame directly, u just said "hopefully it won't be the same like was 2004". Well, that's inspiring me... :D Hope is the last thing i want to belive in. I hope my kids will grow up in a strong country, I hope my government will be less corrupted, let's hope! Wooooo, gonna bring some champagne.

So should I blame Putin, Yanukovich, Tymoshenko, my parents, revolutioneers, U.S. department of state, masons, myself or reptiloids?

Yea, we are responsible in some ways, I'm responsible for a place I was born in :/

On February 25 2014 02:58 Yurie wrote:


I'm not sure how old you are, but there are plenty of examples of modern country leaders in their late twenties or early 30's. To get to that position you need to do stuff before that. I would live in a corrupt country instead of trying to change it.

If you don't like the current situation you are always to blame. There are plenty of options in all situations, though many end up with you dying for a cause. I would likely never pick one of those options.

As for the topic itself. I don't hold any hope for major changes, doesn't feel like the discussions are about the right things. Though I might be utterly wrong and would be happy to be it.

On February 25 2014 03:06 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:


Not that old, 10 days ago was my 24-th birthday. And yes, u right, it's hard to pick any of two sides, especially when both are pretty much equal and bad.

It is obviously for me, that bunch of previous corrupted politicians will be changed by bunch of other (opposition), we had this in 2004, already. Will be same, a bit better or worse, but just a bit.

On February 25 2014 03:12 Gorsameth wrote:

And you know who can stop it becomes the same corrupt government you had before?

The People

No it wont be easy, no it wont be painless, yes people may die for it.

But in the end the only way to stop this is for the people to rise up and say "no more".

On February 25 2014 03:06 Roman666 wrote:

People like you are to blame. Instead of trying to change something for the better, you are going to cry and ridicule what people write on forums. Unless you wanted your country to be someone's lapdog in the first place, then hey, why the fuck are even having this conversation at all.

On February 25 2014 03:17 Ghanburighan wrote:


In the end, the difficult part isn't the `dying for a good cause' it's the decades of tiny little administrative tests you need to pass, dealing with the mind numbing complexity involved with modernizing one's legislature, building up institutions, separating strands of government... You cannot protest your way to a good country, the people need to take responsibility and elevate the level of national discussion on the issues at hand.

On February 25 2014 03:18 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:


I've started to be better from myself, minimum of alcohol, sports, never smoked and never had a problems with laws. Show me the way how can I become a presiden, I'll do my job as the best. Oh wait...who the hell let me be there without corrupted friends-politicians which interests I will follow during my presidency, without huge money bank, without many factors that necessary.

Or better, I'd go and try to change something for better, for example, I'll try to crush the monument of Lenin! Or I'll better throw some molotova cocktail in police office, or maybe I'll go join Titushki and support Yanukovich. Oh gush, this "better way" is so hard to find out

On February 25 2014 03:28 Roman666 wrote:

Yet again you want me to find you a one recipe to cover all your problems, but you fail to realize that it is small things that people do in everyday life define your nation as a whole. It does start with you, but does not end there. The small, you could think, stupid things that people do is what defines the whole societies.