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About the negotiations. Wiki
A third meeting since the start of the Hrushevskoho Street riots between President Yanukovych and the three main opposition leaders Yatseniuk, Klitschko and Tiahnybok took place on 25 January as requested by the All-Ukraine Council of Churches and Religious Organizations[386].[387] During the meeting President Yanukovych offered the position of Prime Minister of Ukraine to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine in charge of humanitarian affairs to Vitali Klitschko.[388][389][390] The government also offered an amnesty for protesters who agree to release administration buildings they have seized.[389] During the meeting President Yanukovych also promised to consider changes to the Ukrainian constitution (which currently give the President of Ukraine extensive powers) either through a referendum or through legislation by the forming of a working group containing all parties in Ukraine's parliament to discuss returning to the constitution as it was between 2004 and 2010, under which parliament had significantly more powers than currently.[390][391] According to Justice Minister Olena Lukash President Yanukovych would dismiss the second Azarov Government if Yatsenyuk accepted the Prime Minister post.[392] Nevertheless Yatsenyuk told a large crowd on Maidan Nezalezhnosti that while the opposition is generally ready to accept leadership of the government, President Yanukovych still had to meet several key demands of the opposition (including early presidential elections) and that talks will continue.[393] At a later news conference, Yatsenyuk said "we are not throwing out the proposal, but we are not accepting it, either. We are conducting serious consultations among three opposition forces".[393] About an hour after the opposition leaders spoke the Hrushevskoho Street riots continued.[393]
I'd add that another unconditional demand of the opposition is the total cancellation of all "draconic laws", while Yanukovych insists on "amending" those.
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I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety.
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On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety.
It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price.
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On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price.
ehm wha, This is the common people rising up.
As for Dav1oN's feelings i can understand you totally but sometimes you have to fight for your freedoms.
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On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price.
Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike.
Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/
Am sad
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On January 26 2014 08:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. ehm wha, This is the common people rising up. As for Dav1oN's feelings i can understand you totally but sometimes you have to fight for your freedoms.
In this society, freedom too far from understanding, 95% of ppl don't know what to do with their "freedom". They will follow a person who knows how to talk properly, who lies the best. And what is real freedom in our country? What if it will looks like in Matrix? Ukraine will be our Zion, the real third-world country in "Europe". I doubt that u guys, who lives in Netherlands or Germany, or GB rly needs our country in EU. U already have Greece, Romania and Poland. You already have romanian plumber working in your house, estonian electrician working in ur office, and polish lift operator that works in ur parking, so basicly why do u need ukrainian ballast? Why do u need all this people who potentially can throw a molotova cocktail in your house?
People rising to change shitty gov. for shitty gov.
And yea, by the way, with the newest laws, I might be jailed for this post :D
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Goddamn, so many of those pictures are wallpaper-worthy. And well-written too.
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On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad
What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right.
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On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right.
Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us.
@cSc.Dav1oN
Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years.
Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them.
Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections.
What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot.
Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions.
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On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions.
Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle.
So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world?
Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven.
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On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven.
If you are trying to say that Sweden and Finland are not in the EU I suggest you do your homework if you want to be taken seriously.
About the thing with the police torturing, just wait if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You will see then why it is an issue.
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On January 26 2014 20:05 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven. If you are trying to say that Sweden and Finland are not in the EU I suggest you do your homework if you want to be taken seriously. About the thing with the police torturing, just wait if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You will see then why it is an issue.
And what's the destination of wrong place? And why should I be there to get tortured? So basicly, if I want to be in shit, I have to go and find this shit on me by my wish? :D
Your suggestions are wrong, sorry.
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On January 26 2014 20:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 20:05 Roman666 wrote:On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven. If you are trying to say that Sweden and Finland are not in the EU I suggest you do your homework if you want to be taken seriously. About the thing with the police torturing, just wait if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You will see then why it is an issue. And what's the destination of wrong place? And why should I be there to get tortured? So basicly, if I want to be in shit, I have to go and find this shit on me by my wish? :D Your suggestions are wrong, sorry.
About the molotovs - police are in the people's way of demanding that their position be taken seriously. In fact, they started the aggression in the first place by the looks of it. Then some bullshit law gets to pass in the most absurd way, and you expect people to keep protesting peacefully?
About the wrong places - they could even be in your home, depending on somebody's wishes. So long as you don't do anything about it, it's gonna go even worse than that. From their point of view, it's what they can get away with. Don't keep them in check and you might as well become the prime candidate setting for a half life 2 movie (hint: 1984).
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On January 26 2014 22:40 Lwerewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 20:25 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 20:05 Roman666 wrote:On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven. If you are trying to say that Sweden and Finland are not in the EU I suggest you do your homework if you want to be taken seriously. About the thing with the police torturing, just wait if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You will see then why it is an issue. And what's the destination of wrong place? And why should I be there to get tortured? So basicly, if I want to be in shit, I have to go and find this shit on me by my wish? :D Your suggestions are wrong, sorry. About the molotovs - police are in the people's way of demanding that their position be taken seriously. In fact, they started the aggression in the first place by the looks of it. Then some bullshit law gets to pass in the most absurd way, and you expect people to keep protesting peacefully? About the wrong places - they could even be in your home, depending on somebody's wishes. So long as you don't do anything about it, it's gonna go even worse than that. From their point of view, it's what they can get away with. Don't keep them in check and you might as well become the prime candidate setting for a half life 2 movie (hint: 1984).
"They could be even in your home" - it sounds like a theorycrafting, srsly. There is no possible way for me to be in this trap untill i'm following the laws, the latest law changes (at least some of them) sounds funny, but they acting towards strikers (which sounds pretty logic), some of those latest changes are hillarious and some of them even absurd, but there is no possible chances for me to cross the line. About police, it is also obvious that police gonna protect some key buildings from demonstrants, in what country the wouldn't?
I won't argue about who started the agression, both sides made a couple of crusual mistakes.
First of all, opposition must find a person who will represent their right, it has to be a single person, but not three. Second step is to sit down for debates with current president and make everything for democracy, by legit ways.
And please don't tell me that civyl war is the real solution nowadays, and after all this problems we will live in a beautiful country without any particular problems, what a fantasy :D
By the way, u also became a hostage of imformation war, but ppl in our country more brainwashed from east to west, that's the problem.
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On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven.
You are pathetic. There is a revolution going on in your country and you didn't even bother to check one of the biggest facts before claiming it.
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Dav1on, you say it is not your problem and ill just leave this here as an answer. have a think about it.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
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Dav1on's posts are quite telling in regards to the rather sad state of civic affairs in Ukraine; instead of giving his fellow countrymen even a bit of the benefit of the doubt, he assumes that his personal experience is the only truth-bearing standard. When your fellow man walks out into the street, loudly shouting " we've got problems!", and all you can do is say "well my family, friends, and personal life is perfectly fine, so you must be some kind of vandal", something is very wrong. Don't get me wrong though, this sort of thing happens all over the world, only not to the degree that we see in Ukraine at the moment.
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On January 27 2014 01:49 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 19:52 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 14:34 MyrMindservant wrote:On January 26 2014 10:41 Cheerio wrote:On January 26 2014 08:55 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On January 26 2014 08:47 plogamer wrote:On January 26 2014 08:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
I rly wonder, so much ppl stopped to do their jobs and started to strike, some of strikes are paid by opposition and some by the current gouvernment. That's hillarious! Spoiling things won't solve anything! I just wait till special forces will recieve the necessary command to push all the agressive strikers from the streets. Molotova cocktails was just the beginning...
I used to be on the strikers side from the very beginning, but now it looks horrible and distabilizing. I don't want to be in a civil war in my country, better let it be communistic, socialistic, whatever, I just want to live in peace, I want my parents and my kids to live in safety. It is like the Game of Thrones. The powerful struggle, to maintain or gain more power, and the common-folk pay the iron price. Not sure about hot correct this relation, cause in GOT there are several of powerful forces and here in Ukraine we got cuurent gov. that shits in pants to force out the strikers and separated opposition which don't know exactly what to do, basicly they even don't know what they want. It looks like half of them striking for money, and the other half striking to strike. Would be cool if both sides gonna face each other and both will be completely annihilated. I am sure that deserve each other but still there is almost no difference between them, no matter who will be the president (Yanukovich or Yatsenyuk) the population will be in shit, demography is also in shit, don't even wanna mention the economy :/ Am sad What is sad is your entire post. Not a word about civil liberties being taken away, or tortures, selective justice, insane corruption, people being killed for their political views. Clearly all people who wish for power are equally evil and should just kill each other... yeah, right. Yeah, and it also shows why Ukraine is so fucked up now. Too many people are used to this slave mentality. Or maybe they are just not bright enough to think ahead and understand what such rulers and laws will bring us. @cSc.Dav1oN Do you really think that it's fine to live in a country where police is torturing people on a regular basis, and this started long before the current riot. It was a common practice in police to extract confessions out of innocent people since even before we got our independence, nothing has changed during last 22 years. Where riot police is shooting unarmed people, kidnapping and torturing them, sometimes even to death. Where police is attacking reporters and seizing wounded people right in medical centers/hospitals to forcefully interrogate them. Is it fine to live in a country where you hardly can do anything of significance without giving a bribe to someone. In a country where you can lose your business in an instant because someone "bigger" than you decided that he wants estate, territory or even the business itself your are currently owning. Where courts will always rule to the benefit of someone who has more money/power or influential connections. What I listed above in nothing new to someone who has lived here for long enough. But now, with new "dictatorship" laws that were passed on 16th january, they can do even more, much more, and it was the last drop. Even ukrainians, people used to endure all kinds of repressions, don't want to tolerate it anymore. At least a large part of them, I know that not everyone is supporting the riot. Anyhow, my point is: giving up now and allowing our rulers to do as they please is not any better that directly risking our lives during the revolution. Even if you manage to buy a temporary safety by allowing them to stomp the riot now, there's no guaranty that you or your children won't suffer even more in the future. Especially because if they win now, they will be even more sure that they can do whatever they want with whoever they want, disregarding any laws and conventions. Okay, first of all, I never felt police torturing, never had a problems with a law, never struggled, my parents and friends also never had this kind of problems, is there something we do wrong? About corruption, it's a well-known fact, it is absolutely everywhere, and to eliminate it u must change every single politician in every single structure, switching president and parliament to someone from opoosition won't make a big difference. And there will be no instant miracle. So show me, who's this person that gonna lead our country to a brighter world? Please, don't tell me about civil libirties, since strikers threw so many cocktails on police forces and had no bullets in their bodies for exchange. U do realy think that european road will clear the corruption and all the problem in our country? Take a look at Sweden, Finland. Are they in EU? Do they live good? Did they made any attempts to move in EU? Switched political vector from Europe to Russia was a perfect reason to start the revolution. But non of this ways are leading us to a heaven. You are pathetic. There is a revolution going on in your country and you didn't even bother to check one of the biggest facts before claiming it.
Oh thank you, I was wondering, what happening in my country for last two months, and it is revolution? WOW! U've just opened my eyes. Stop it, if u rly like what happening right now, why don't go and strike with fellas? I'm not a person whom u should try to affect.
@Gorsameth
It is my problem, since we're in danger of civil war. This is scary.
@farvacola
I'm trying to look at current situation from both sided and from the very middle of the barricades, and I'm juding using my personal life exp. which is agruably not that big and may be different from my fella above. So basicly we both right, but...We got our truth, different truth. Coins got two sides, people should realise it, until then, we're in shit.
I hope i'm wrong and everything would be fine in near future. Too sad that such beautiful center of Kiev looks terrible now, and a bit postapocalyptyc.
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EPT
