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Blizzard to announce something at PAX - Page 16

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Locke-
Profile Joined December 2011
499 Posts
March 13 2013 14:32 GMT
#301
Blizzard Allstars in StarCraft...
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
March 13 2013 14:38 GMT
#302
On March 02 2013 07:48 Meatloaf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


for the better ? D3 was a pointless grind and left out a big part of the original diablo game that was choices to make your char... they oversimplified the game to the point that its a mindless grind to get better and better gear , and oh yeah you have RMAH woot! lets go grind moar bc there is no point in making another barb if i have one already...


What choices? Spells in Diablo came from spell books, which you get as drops or bought from Adria when she stocks them in inventory. It gives you choices in stat points but everything other than your main stat has a pretty low cap.
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
March 13 2013 14:39 GMT
#303
On March 13 2013 23:32 Locke- wrote:
Blizzard Allstars in StarCraft...



I have a theory about that, too.

See, at first announcement of the MOBA, I don't believe that Blizz really thought MOBAs would be *that* popular. At the time, SC2 was still the undisputed king of esports.

However, with the recent explosion of LoL, Blizz might have realized what a lucrative market MOBAs are (whether the genre will die with LoL is debatable). Noting this tasty new market, they may have called a meeting and decided that instead of providing a fun minigame for people who already own SC2, they should put a full team on this new MOBA idea and release it as a separate game.

This explains why we've heard literally nothing about All Stars for so long- they're completely redoing the original idea, and giving it a full treatment.

Thus, the big reveal at PAX will be a standalone MOBA on a gorgeous engine, with the smooth, fast controls of HotS and shiny graphics, plus neat new physics. This announce will indicate a beta playable within 6 months.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
March 13 2013 14:42 GMT
#304
On March 13 2013 23:39 Crownlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 23:32 Locke- wrote:
Blizzard Allstars in StarCraft...



I have a theory about that, too.

See, at first announcement of the MOBA, I don't believe that Blizz really thought MOBAs would be *that* popular. At the time, SC2 was still the undisputed king of esports.

However, with the recent explosion of LoL, Blizz might have realized what a lucrative market MOBAs are (whether the genre will die with LoL is debatable). Noting this tasty new market, they may have called a meeting and decided that instead of providing a fun minigame for people who already own SC2, they should put a full team on this new MOBA idea and release it as a separate game.

This explains why we've heard literally nothing about All Stars for so long- they're completely redoing the original idea, and giving it a full treatment.

Thus, the big reveal at PAX will be a standalone MOBA on a gorgeous engine, with the smooth, fast controls of HotS and shiny graphics, plus neat new physics. This announce will indicate a beta playable within 6 months.


I could see that happening i thought about this first as well.
NeonFlare
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Finland1307 Posts
March 13 2013 14:46 GMT
#305
Legacy of the Void renamed to additional pylons or delayed. Though the All-stars thing is most likely one.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17870 Posts
March 13 2013 14:48 GMT
#306
On March 11 2013 22:05 Martijn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2013 20:23 GrapeApe wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


LOL are you kidding me? Please, tell me what all these changes for the better supposedly were.


No skilltrees, game design experts called it a huge leap. Sirlin did a write up; http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/5/3/diablo-3s-ability-system.html


All is cool and dandy, if it actually mattered. First of all, you could do just fine in D2 by not using "the only true build". I know a guy who put 1 point into every skill on every tree and had loads of fun. Not everyone is hardcore competitive player you know. Sure D2's system was flawed (as was entirety of D2 compared to D1, but that's another story entirely) but no one cared and a ton of people were playing it for years both on battle.net and single-player/LAN.

Now, let's go the other way around and compare D3's UI/skills to D1. In D1 each class had exactly 1 skill, you couldn't improve it so no worries there. The stat points were there, but what was the most important were the limits (different for each class) so you couldn't just dump everything into vitality as in D2 and the big red + button served more as a progress indicator than anything else. Then you got the excellent system of learning and improving spells through books, which was tied to your intelligence stat, giving your warriors and rogues additional tools and at the same time leaving mages on top of that because they could get all those spells to much much higher levels.

All in all, it wasn't a "build your character" game. What was important there was hacking and slashing (and blasting) the monsters, which this games should be all about and both D2 and D3 have kind of lost their focus there.

There is a reason why I'm still playing D1 (just running around solo, hacking and slashing) and not D2 or D3, which I tried and abandoned (D3 after a week, D2 provided more entertainment).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
r4pture
Profile Joined May 2011
United States397 Posts
March 13 2013 14:51 GMT
#307
Please be a Linux client, please be a Linux client, please be a Linux client...
http://teamfortress.tv - For your TF2 streaming and discussion needs!
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
March 13 2013 14:53 GMT
#308
I believe it's already been mentioned that Blizzard Dota has been spun off into it's own game.

That's what's going to be announced.
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
March 13 2013 14:54 GMT
#309
On March 13 2013 23:48 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2013 22:05 Martijn wrote:
On March 11 2013 20:23 GrapeApe wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


LOL are you kidding me? Please, tell me what all these changes for the better supposedly were.


No skilltrees, game design experts called it a huge leap. Sirlin did a write up; http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/5/3/diablo-3s-ability-system.html


All is cool and dandy, if it actually mattered. First of all, you could do just fine in D2 by not using "the only true build". I know a guy who put 1 point into every skill on every tree and had loads of fun. Not everyone is hardcore competitive player you know. Sure D2's system was flawed (as was entirety of D2 compared to D1, but that's another story entirely) but no one cared and a ton of people were playing it for years both on battle.net and single-player/LAN.

Now, let's go the other way around and compare D3's UI/skills to D1. In D1 each class had exactly 1 skill, you couldn't improve it so no worries there. The stat points were there, but what was the most important were the limits (different for each class) so you couldn't just dump everything into vitality as in D2 and the big red + button served more as a progress indicator than anything else. Then you got the excellent system of learning and improving spells through books, which was tied to your intelligence stat, giving your warriors and rogues additional tools and at the same time leaving mages on top of that because they could get all those spells to much much higher levels.

All in all, it wasn't a "build your character" game. What was important there was hacking and slashing (and blasting) the monsters, which this games should be all about and both D2 and D3 have kind of lost their focus there.

There is a reason why I'm still playing D1 (just running around solo, hacking and slashing) and not D2 or D3, which I tried and abandoned (D3 after a week, D2 provided more entertainment).



Can we stay on topic in this thread? I mean, I get your post, but can you post in a Diablo or other games section?
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
March 13 2013 15:04 GMT
#310
On March 13 2013 23:48 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2013 22:05 Martijn wrote:
On March 11 2013 20:23 GrapeApe wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


LOL are you kidding me? Please, tell me what all these changes for the better supposedly were.


No skilltrees, game design experts called it a huge leap. Sirlin did a write up; http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/5/3/diablo-3s-ability-system.html


All is cool and dandy, if it actually mattered. First of all, you could do just fine in D2 by not using "the only true build". I know a guy who put 1 point into every skill on every tree and had loads of fun. Not everyone is hardcore competitive player you know. Sure D2's system was flawed (as was entirety of D2 compared to D1, but that's another story entirely) but no one cared and a ton of people were playing it for years both on battle.net and single-player/LAN.

Now, let's go the other way around and compare D3's UI/skills to D1. In D1 each class had exactly 1 skill, you couldn't improve it so no worries there. The stat points were there, but what was the most important were the limits (different for each class) so you couldn't just dump everything into vitality as in D2 and the big red + button served more as a progress indicator than anything else. Then you got the excellent system of learning and improving spells through books, which was tied to your intelligence stat, giving your warriors and rogues additional tools and at the same time leaving mages on top of that because they could get all those spells to much much higher levels.

All in all, it wasn't a "build your character" game. What was important there was hacking and slashing (and blasting) the monsters, which this games should be all about and both D2 and D3 have kind of lost their focus there.

There is a reason why I'm still playing D1 (just running around solo, hacking and slashing) and not D2 or D3, which I tried and abandoned (D3 after a week, D2 provided more entertainment).

It doesn't work like that unless the game is easy as shit and completely offline. If the game is hard, like D3 inferno at launch, or if it's competitive (optimizing farming, making money on the AH), then people demand efficiency and you're argument about people being able to do what they like is not correct. It's not viable, it punishes noobs who don't look up internet guides, and it's completely out-of-touch with how people actually play the game.

If you think about this objectively, instead of clinging to old and failed designs, like the D2 skill system, you'll see that D3 skill system is far superior and offers more meaningful and real choices than D2 could.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
March 13 2013 15:10 GMT
#311
I loved D1. It was the deepest, most tactical game in the entire series. In order to play D1 well, a player had to utilize the environment to their advantage. Warriors used doorways, chokes and other impediments to reduce the number of monsters they have to fight at any single time. Rogues and sorcerers did the same thing to kite better or shoot monsters at range with impunity. Warriors also used said impediments to corner ranged attackers like succubi who loved to run away.

D2 introduced so much dumb stuff like acid pools, reviving monsters and all sorts of other crap. It balanced that out by letting players get to ludicrously fast run speeds with gear. The result was drastically changing narrow corridors from being a player advantage to a huge monster advantage. Conversely, the run speeds changed open fields from monster advantage to player advantage. People just ran around like Sonic the Hedgehog while button mashing their skills.

D3 lowered the maximum run speed that can be attainable through gear. But there are still plenty of abilities like arcane enchanted, desecrator and plagued. It still has D2's balance where narrow corridors is a monster advantage and wide open fields is a player advantage.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
March 13 2013 19:49 GMT
#312
A new MMO: Eve Online but using the Starcraft universe. With less menu screens and with more on planet stuff.
Never Knows Best.
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
March 13 2013 23:58 GMT
#313
On March 14 2013 00:10 andrewlt wrote:
I loved D1. It was the deepest, most tactical game in the entire series. In order to play D1 well, a player had to utilize the environment to their advantage. Warriors used doorways, chokes and other impediments to reduce the number of monsters they have to fight at any single time. Rogues and sorcerers did the same thing to kite better or shoot monsters at range with impunity. Warriors also used said impediments to corner ranged attackers like succubi who loved to run away.

D2 introduced so much dumb stuff like acid pools, reviving monsters and all sorts of other crap. It balanced that out by letting players get to ludicrously fast run speeds with gear. The result was drastically changing narrow corridors from being a player advantage to a huge monster advantage. Conversely, the run speeds changed open fields from monster advantage to player advantage. People just ran around like Sonic the Hedgehog while button mashing their skills.

D3 lowered the maximum run speed that can be attainable through gear. But there are still plenty of abilities like arcane enchanted, desecrator and plagued. It still has D2's balance where narrow corridors is a monster advantage and wide open fields is a player advantage.


So, in other words chokepoints = incredibly deep? I played D1 as a wizard. All I had to do was throw magic at people, run, throw more magic, and run some more. You're giving it way more credit than you should be.
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-14 00:09:48
March 14 2013 00:08 GMT
#314
On March 14 2013 04:49 Slaughter wrote:
A new MMO: Eve Online but using the Starcraft universe. With less menu screens and with more on planet stuff.


Eve is extremely boring, and the TL corp made me quit the game for good =/

D1 as a warrior was shift-clicking doorways for hours on end, or chasing after busty women and teleporting wizards while chugging more potions than a graduation party
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
March 14 2013 03:05 GMT
#315
On March 13 2013 23:39 Crownlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 23:32 Locke- wrote:
Blizzard Allstars in StarCraft...



I have a theory about that, too.

See, at first announcement of the MOBA, I don't believe that Blizz really thought MOBAs would be *that* popular. At the time, SC2 was still the undisputed king of esports.

However, with the recent explosion of LoL, Blizz might have realized what a lucrative market MOBAs are (whether the genre will die with LoL is debatable). Noting this tasty new market, they may have called a meeting and decided that instead of providing a fun minigame for people who already own SC2, they should put a full team on this new MOBA idea and release it as a separate game.

This explains why we've heard literally nothing about All Stars for so long- they're completely redoing the original idea, and giving it a full treatment.

Thus, the big reveal at PAX will be a standalone MOBA on a gorgeous engine, with the smooth, fast controls of HotS and shiny graphics, plus neat new physics. This announce will indicate a beta playable within 6 months.

I'm pretty sure they already said Blizzard all-stars will be standalone (or at least not just a custom map).

However, while I thought Blizzard All-stars would be a likely candidate for this, Sixen said it was unlikely because starcraft/diablo websites/fansites didn't get a teaser image for it; only WoW fansites got the teaser image. [source]
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
March 14 2013 03:12 GMT
#316
I think it's a safe bet that it's Blizzard All-stars and sundance also talked about that blizzard had plans for BAS this year.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
March 14 2013 03:13 GMT
#317
On March 14 2013 04:49 Slaughter wrote:
A new MMO: Eve Online but using the Starcraft universe. With less menu screens and with more on planet stuff.


Would be foolish to go that road when Star Citizen is around the corner
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Dakkas
Profile Joined October 2010
2550 Posts
March 14 2013 03:38 GMT
#318
On March 13 2013 23:39 Crownlol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 23:32 Locke- wrote:
Blizzard Allstars in StarCraft...



I have a theory about that, too.

See, at first announcement of the MOBA, I don't believe that Blizz really thought MOBAs would be *that* popular. At the time, SC2 was still the undisputed king of esports.

However, with the recent explosion of LoL, Blizz might have realized what a lucrative market MOBAs are (whether the genre will die with LoL is debatable). Noting this tasty new market, they may have called a meeting and decided that instead of providing a fun minigame for people who already own SC2, they should put a full team on this new MOBA idea and release it as a separate game.

This explains why we've heard literally nothing about All Stars for so long- they're completely redoing the original idea, and giving it a full treatment.

Thus, the big reveal at PAX will be a standalone MOBA on a gorgeous engine, with the smooth, fast controls of HotS and shiny graphics, plus neat new physics. This announce will indicate a beta playable within 6 months.


I would love this, I would pay for play a MOBA using Blizzard heroes
Martijn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands1219 Posts
March 14 2013 11:05 GMT
#319
On March 13 2013 23:48 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2013 22:05 Martijn wrote:
On March 11 2013 20:23 GrapeApe wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


LOL are you kidding me? Please, tell me what all these changes for the better supposedly were.


No skilltrees, game design experts called it a huge leap. Sirlin did a write up; http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/5/3/diablo-3s-ability-system.html


All is cool and dandy, if it actually mattered. First of all, you could do just fine in D2 by not using "the only true build". I know a guy who put 1 point into every skill on every tree and had loads of fun. Not everyone is hardcore competitive player you know. Sure D2's system was flawed (as was entirety of D2 compared to D1, but that's another story entirely) but no one cared and a ton of people were playing it for years both on battle.net and single-player/LAN.

Now, let's go the other way around and compare D3's UI/skills to D1. In D1 each class had exactly 1 skill, you couldn't improve it so no worries there. The stat points were there, but what was the most important were the limits (different for each class) so you couldn't just dump everything into vitality as in D2 and the big red + button served more as a progress indicator than anything else. Then you got the excellent system of learning and improving spells through books, which was tied to your intelligence stat, giving your warriors and rogues additional tools and at the same time leaving mages on top of that because they could get all those spells to much much higher levels.

All in all, it wasn't a "build your character" game. What was important there was hacking and slashing (and blasting) the monsters, which this games should be all about and both D2 and D3 have kind of lost their focus there.

There is a reason why I'm still playing D1 (just running around solo, hacking and slashing) and not D2 or D3, which I tried and abandoned (D3 after a week, D2 provided more entertainment).


Hey, I'm not here to argue for or against him. The guy is an expert on game design, you're free to agree or disagree with him though. I figured an actual authority on game mechanics might be a meaningful source. Your personal preference is yours, no need to defend it.

Sirlin also wrote "play to win", which is a must-read book for anyone into competitive gaming. It's free online: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/
http://www.glhf.tv fighting! Former WesternWolves & LowLandLions operations manager.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
March 14 2013 11:52 GMT
#320
On March 14 2013 00:04 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 23:48 Manit0u wrote:
On March 11 2013 22:05 Martijn wrote:
On March 11 2013 20:23 GrapeApe wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:26 aksfjh wrote:
On March 02 2013 07:11 NicolBolas wrote:
On March 02 2013 05:04 scrdmnttr wrote:
It's completely true. The BW zealots (not the unit >_>) might hate this, but SC2 is merely BW made with modern technology.
It is also true that there is vast opportunities for innovation, and changing units and tacking on macro features is not innovation.


Yes, there "is vast opportunities for innovation". But if they did that... it wouldn't be like SC1 in any way. It would probably use a different resource collection model, with different play dynamics, and in all ways be a different game.

That's the difference between having an audience and not having one. WC3 was innovative in many ways. And look how many SC1 players did not play it.

That taught Blizzard a lesson: change is bad. Change means fewer sales. Change means your audience won't play it.

So if you want to blame someone for the lack of innovation in SC2, you know where to look.

A better example, look at D3. It was change, and a lot of it for the better. Reasonable people loved it, as did many newcomers to the series, but "fans" hated it because it wasn't D2.1.


LOL are you kidding me? Please, tell me what all these changes for the better supposedly were.


No skilltrees, game design experts called it a huge leap. Sirlin did a write up; http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/5/3/diablo-3s-ability-system.html


All is cool and dandy, if it actually mattered. First of all, you could do just fine in D2 by not using "the only true build". I know a guy who put 1 point into every skill on every tree and had loads of fun. Not everyone is hardcore competitive player you know. Sure D2's system was flawed (as was entirety of D2 compared to D1, but that's another story entirely) but no one cared and a ton of people were playing it for years both on battle.net and single-player/LAN.

Now, let's go the other way around and compare D3's UI/skills to D1. In D1 each class had exactly 1 skill, you couldn't improve it so no worries there. The stat points were there, but what was the most important were the limits (different for each class) so you couldn't just dump everything into vitality as in D2 and the big red + button served more as a progress indicator than anything else. Then you got the excellent system of learning and improving spells through books, which was tied to your intelligence stat, giving your warriors and rogues additional tools and at the same time leaving mages on top of that because they could get all those spells to much much higher levels.

All in all, it wasn't a "build your character" game. What was important there was hacking and slashing (and blasting) the monsters, which this games should be all about and both D2 and D3 have kind of lost their focus there.

There is a reason why I'm still playing D1 (just running around solo, hacking and slashing) and not D2 or D3, which I tried and abandoned (D3 after a week, D2 provided more entertainment).

It doesn't work like that unless the game is easy as shit and completely offline. If the game is hard, like D3 inferno at launch, or if it's competitive (optimizing farming, making money on the AH), then people demand efficiency and you're argument about people being able to do what they like is not correct. It's not viable, it punishes noobs who don't look up internet guides, and it's completely out-of-touch with how people actually play the game.

If you think about this objectively, instead of clinging to old and failed designs, like the D2 skill system, you'll see that D3 skill system is far superior and offers more meaningful and real choices than D2 could.

Yes, the skill system is not what made diablo 3 a disappointing game. With a better story, better balanced drops (ignoring the auction house) and a better constructed inferno mode I think D3 wouldn't have gotten nearly as much hate as it's gotten.
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