EPTHaha.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9673
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Haha. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
No oneis saying America is perfect but it's a meme of the highest order to ask what America is actually good at, when the answer is a staggeringly large amount. I'm at the best university in Australia, it's ranked 30something each year depending on who's ranking it. I'm guessing above it is more then 20 American universities that people all around the world are doing there absolute best to get into, universities which just happen to also lead the world in almost all fields of academics, producing graduates that have the option of working in the best and most developed technology sector in the world without any real comparison. If they don't want to work in the private Indus, no problem the government programs exist for that as well, and in a common theme work on some of the most cutting edge stuff in the world. It's frankly delusional to think the gap between the nhs and the Aca is as large as some people are making out to be, and BTW, if you have some weird form of brain cancer America is absolutely the place to be, as yet again they lead the world in medical technology as well. They might not be perfect, other developed nations might appeal to you more, but they lead the world for reasons other then dumb luck. | ||
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oBlade
United States5609 Posts
On January 12 2018 07:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Someone finally said it. We are the shithole country. Finally? Someone finally said it? There weren't people constantly talking about rebuilding infrastructure, jobs, stopping people from dying in the streets, staying out of pointless wars? Even just one person talking about all of them, except student loan debt which is an actual first world problem, like it's something that only happens to people who can go to universities and more Bernie's signature I guess. Anyway, it's perplexing to see such a compartmental view of the world, I wonder if StealthBlue has been paying attention the past few years. On January 12 2018 23:57 brian wrote: can’t wait to be lectured again about how trump isn’t a racist and it’s the liberals fault we’re here. yawn. We want to help the poor and underprivileged of the world but their countries are already fantastic? no, they're not good places to be which is why people all over the world want to go to the US even illegally. This is the whole point. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9653 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:10 oBlade wrote: Finally? Someone finally said it? There weren't people constantly talking about rebuilding infrastructure, jobs, stopping people from dying in the streets, staying out of pointless wars? Even just one person talking about all of them, except student loan debt which is an actual first world problem, like it's something that only happens to people who can go to universities and more Bernie's signature I guess. Anyway, it's perplexing to see such a compartmental view of the world, I wonder if StealthBlue has been paying attention the past few years. We want to help the poor and underprivileged of the world but their countries are already fantastic? no, they're not good places to be which is why people all over the world want to go to the US even illegally. This is the whole point. This isn’t about illegal immigration. Trump was saying he didn’t want people from those countries to legally immigrate to the US. Also you should read up on immigrants from those “shithole” nations, they do very well in the US. There is no real data to support not taking that I have seen. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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oBlade
United States5609 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:13 Plansix wrote: This isn’t about illegal immigration. Trump was saying he didn’t want people from those countries to legally immigrate to the US. Also you should read up on immigrants from those “shithole” nations, they do very well in the US. There is no real data to support not taking that I have seen. Yes, I didn't say it was about illegal immigration, illegal immigration is evidence that if one side were a shithole it's not the US. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21700 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:12 Jockmcplop wrote: You can try and defend Trump's language but honestly if he's such a fucking genius how come he hasn't yet realized that when democrats are in the room he can't just go running his mouth off about stuff? Implying his own White House staff hasn't been leaking constantly since day 1. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:19 oBlade wrote: Yes, I didn't say it was about illegal immigration, illegal immigration is evidence that if one side were a shithole it's not the US. Well, congrats on trying to change the subject. The topic is legal immigration. Someone people are overweight, but there is a reason we don’t call them a fat slob to their face. There is no justifying the comments by Trump. And in that line of thought, we don’t argue with people who admit they are fat and need to lose weight just because they are not the most overweight person. Just because the US is better than the worst places to live is meaningless to the people who are unhappy with the course of the country. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:13 bo1b wrote: Yeh I wonder what the consequences of that would be. Let's just cut military spending by 90% and see how it goes. It wouldn't cause catastrophic geopolitical consequences or tank the world economy or anything like that Or, it's all hot air anyway. Who knows, right? I think most of the geopolitical influence the US now exerts is purely for itself and the standoffs it has with China and Russia. Perhaps it should just make an inseparable economic mutual interest (one that probably already exists) so that one can't function decently without the other. Why need military when you'll fall yourself if you fuck them over? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9653 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:21 Gorsameth wrote: Implying his own White House staff hasn't been leaking constantly since day 1. Yup. Trump's greatest achievement will always be managing to convince the US public that it doesn't matter what their president does or says as long as he pretends to be on their side. I suppose with that in mind he doesn't have to stick to basic political rules like being careful what you say around people that hate you. | ||
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Introvert
United States4773 Posts
Meanwhile we have all these high horse media outlets who feel like they MUST use the exact word even though it was something he said in a private conversation, as if a potty mouth president is new. No sense, all drama. * + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:13 Plansix wrote: This isn’t about illegal immigration. Trump was saying he didn’t want people from those countries to legally immigrate to the US. Also you should read up on immigrants from those “shithole” nations, they do very well in the US. There is no real data to support not taking that I have seen. Out of curiosity: As I understand your statement you are merely stating that legal African immigrants do better than the average American citizen right? Do you happen to know if those legal African immigrants do better than legal Norwegian immigrants? I am not sure if such data is available in the US and was hoping you could point me in the right direction. It would be interesting to compare such data with the Danish data. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:13 bo1b wrote: Yeh I wonder what the consequences of that would be. Let's just cut military spending by 90% and see how it goes. It wouldn't cause catastrophic geopolitical consequences or tank the world economy or anything like that it certainly wouldn't tank the world economy; it'd be a net economic benefit most likely. there would be considerable geopolitical consequences, 90% might be a bit much; but 50% cut would be fine. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:29 Ghostcom wrote: Out of curiosity: As I understand your statement you are merely stating that legal African immigrants do better than the average American citizen right? Do you happen to know if those legal African immigrants do better than legal Norwegian immigrants? I am not sure if such data is available in the US and was hoping you could point me in the right direction. It would be interesting to compare such data with the Danish data. My understanding of the data is that legal immigrants all do reasonably well in the US and on average have a slightly higher than standard of living than most Americans. I don’t know if we compare achievement based on nation of origin, but it does not seem to be a huge factor if someone can obtain legal status. But that creating a system based on nation of origin would really run counter to our national identity, since we are a nation of immigrants. We only limit immigration based on nation of origin for security reasons. I can’t find the studies with a quick google search, because immigration is a pretty saturated topic on the internet. I would link them if I could get them quickly. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:24 Uldridge wrote: Or, it's all hot air anyway. Who knows, right? I think most of the geopolitical influence the US now exerts is purely for itself and the standoffs it has with China and Russia. Perhaps it should just make an inseparable economic mutual interest (one that probably already exists) so that one can't function decently without the other. Why need military when you'll fall yourself if you fuck them over? I envy your level of optimism, but I cannot share your views given the actions of both China and Russia in the last 20 years. Putting aside all other benefits that come from the U.S military, such as the staggering technological boon it's proven to be, and more esoteric things like effective removal of pirates from most shipping routes. America would absolutely not enjoy the change in the short term with millions of people employed in what amounts to a system in peace times of bringing people up to the middle class. It's an interesting thought to wonder if the nations in Europe which enjoy such high h.d.i's would be able to do so if it was them standing off against Russia. On that note, if you were to take an aggregate of the eu(include Britain for now) and compared it to the United States, I wonder who would come out on top. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9653 Posts
http://www.nber.org/papers/w23548 Success of immigrants in the US measured by earnings or education varies dramatically by country of origin. For example, average educational attainment among immigrants ranges from 9 to 16 years, depending on origin country. Perhaps surprisingly, immigrants from Algeria have higher educational attainment than those from Israel or Japan. Also true is that there is a strong inverse relation of attainment to number of immigrants from that country. There is excess supply of potential immigrants to desirable destination country like the US and the rationing rule results in selection from the top of a source country’s ability distribution. As a consequence, average immigrant attainment is inversely related to the number admitted from an origin country and positively related to the population of that country. The results are supported by results from the American Community Survey. The model’s three variables explain 73% of the variation in educational attainment of immigrant groups. Additionally, a structural model that is more explicit in the assumptions and predictions also fits the data well. You have to pay to read the whole study though. I don't think this is measuring success in the US as much as education before arriving in the US. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On January 13 2018 00:34 zlefin wrote: it certainly wouldn't tank the world economy; it'd be a net economic benefit most likely. there would be considerable geopolitical consequences, 90% might be a bit much; but 50% cut would be fine. The military budget is closing in on $600 billion, it is responsible for the employment of just shy of 4 million Americans. Gut instinct tells me that it wouldn't be great for the world if it stopped spending tomorrow. This is completely ignoring the massive changes the world would go through, just the economic changes. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
I watched a well researched, and thought out video once on youtube, I think it was also posted here, that explains exactly what would happen. I can't recall the name, but I'm trying to find it. | ||
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