EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9616
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11933 Posts
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2616 Posts
On January 01 2018 21:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Wow, a tweet I actually agree with. Will wonders ever cease? | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 01 2018 22:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Wow, a tweet I actually agree with. Will wonders ever cease? Which part do you agree with? The implied cutting of aid or that the leaders of Pakistan are lying assholes? Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll actually follow through on any of this bluster and - more importantly - if anyone will actually notice if/when he doesn't? Hasn't he threatened to cut aid/money from a ton of places now? I seem to recall about half of the EU countries (in a blanket tweet over the Israeli diplomacy HQ hubbub), now Pakistan, I'm sure at least one other Middle Eastern nation, and Puerto Rico all getting tweets along these lines in recent months. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9108 Posts
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2616 Posts
On January 01 2018 23:10 iamthedave wrote: Which part do you agree with? The implied cutting of aid or that the leaders of Pakistan are lying assholes? Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll actually follow through on any of this bluster and - more importantly - if anyone will actually notice if/when he doesn't? Hasn't he threatened to cut aid/money from a ton of places now? I seem to recall about half of the EU countries (in a blanket tweet over the Israeli diplomacy HQ hubbub), now Pakistan, I'm sure at least one other Middle Eastern nation, and Puerto Rico all getting tweets along these lines in recent months. Both, because there are a lot of foreign policy people who know a lot more than I do about the war in Afghanistan who have stated both those things before. See: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/24/pakistan-is-the-crisis-flying-under-the-radar-trump-nukes-taliban/ " A long source of frustration for U.S. military planners — including during my time as NATO’s supreme allied commander responsible for combat operations in Afghanistan — has been Pakistani support for the Afghan Taliban. Developing a package of counterterrorism incentives for Pakistan that requires a quid pro quo of their reducing and eventually dropping support for insurgents within Afghanistan is key." http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/04/pakistan-is-inviting-its-favorite-jihadis-into-parliament/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/21/pentagon-stops-300-million-payment-to-pakistan-citing-terrorist-fight/ These are just the first 3 I found. There are loads of articles from reliable sources stating that Pakistan's leadership is composed of "lying assholes." While there is disagreement about what to do about that, it is also clear that the US-Pakistan relationship has been deteriorating for quite some time this year. See the third article linked above. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2616 Posts
This article is really interesting. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 01 2018 19:26 iamthedave wrote: While I understand Danglars is a controversial figure in this thread, I'm sort of baffled by the series of posts in the last few pages. Sure, maybe he follows an Australian shit heel journalist. So what? This seems the definition of shoot the messenger. The protests in Iran, irrespective of the lady's intent, seem newsworthy and worth highlighting. It's a (rare) sign of positive change in the Middle East that will surely be good for all of us in the long run? Right? As to the general topic right now; it's difficult to really parse our nations (UK and US in particular) history with actions in the MIddle East. For my own part I believe most actions were taken with good intent but ended horribly, and are mostly the result of us trying to influence the politics of a region whose politics we don't really understand because they're based on a kind of thinking we haven't employed over here... maybe ever. They are different folk over there, and while it's easy to criticise from the armchair, I can't imagine what those in power go through when an advisor comes to them with some issue from the Middle East and says 'Mr President/Prime Minister, we have to do something about this. What's the plan?' Just hope one day we can learn from all the disasters and use the knowledge either to know when not to get involved, or to do the right thing if we do. Keep watching the thread and reading. The ratio of manufactured controversy to real controversy jumped in 2017. Secondly, I think a lot of lessons are more disputed (x was mostly due to y) than people in this thread give them credit. My stance on Israel, and even my last linked debate on health insurance and money in politics stand out. Fundamentally irreconciliable worldviews shouldn’t give rise to as much faith that only an idiot would believe something other than my take (and what’s more, explaining/debating it would give your argument false credence!!) Happy New Year. | ||
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wasaru79
4 Posts
More like 20 year old liberals bashing Trump, megathread lol User was banned for this post. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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Excludos
Norway7969 Posts
On January 02 2018 02:43 wasaru79 wrote: "US Politics mega thread? More like 20 year old liberals bashing Trump, megathread lol On January 01 2018 06:08 wasaru79 wrote: Record number of illegal immigrants being arrested crossing the border, record low immigration, 2018 plans to allow in fewer refugees, record low unemployment rate, stock market that continues to get stronger and stronger each day... GOD I love my president! On January 01 2018 07:28 wasaru79 wrote: It's nice to have a US president that puts the US first for a change. Europe has planted the seeds of its own destruction; thanks to President Trump, the United States isn't following suit. On January 01 2018 07:39 wasaru79 wrote: Depends where the "foreigners" are coming from, my man. As a great man once said, Mexico isn't sending their best. Those are literally the only 4 posts you have on this site.. What exactly are you doing here? You seem to have zero interest in the actual game or community aspect of this site, and is only here to praise the almighty Trump. Are you a Russian bot by any chance? edit: Nvm, guess you can't answer that now. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
He also missed the thread's existence before Trump-Clinton (where leftists and liberals were more inclined to be more generous). | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
He also missed the thread's existence before Trump-Clinton (where leftists and liberals were more inclined to be more generous). The sad thing is that neither conservatives nor liberals are smart enough to see through the bullshit that is US politics nowadays. I guess that's what living in an echo chamber does to you... To me it seems the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. Because no economy can survive without a middle class and with net neutrality gone I fear for the worst to be honest. Now the media will feed their propaganda unchallenged by small independent news outlets. The only thing, that will remain of the free voice of the internet will be to quote Simon and Garfunkle: the sound of silence.... | ||
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Excludos
Norway7969 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:24 thePunGun wrote: The sad thing is that neither conservatives nor liberals are smart enough to see through the bullshit that is US politics nowadays. I guess that's what living in an echo chamber does to you... To me it seems the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. Because no economy can survive without a middle class and with net neutrality gone I fear for the worst to be honest. Now the media will feed their propaganda unchallenged by small independent news outlets. The only thing, that will remain of the free voice of the internet will be to quote Simon and Garfunkle: the sound of silence.... I have no idea why you'd ever think "liberals" "aren't smart enough to see this" when political forums have been absolutely plastered with articles about class warfare since Trump came into power. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22740 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:46 Excludos wrote: I have no idea why you'd ever think "liberals" "aren't smart enough to see this" when political forums have been absolutely plastered with articles about class warfare since Trump came into power. Think you answered your own question there bud | ||
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Excludos
Norway7969 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:48 GreenHorizons wrote: Think you answered your own question there bud Did I? Because I don't remember Obama committing class warfare against the middle and poor, do you? Was it when he tried to push through a healthcare system which would help the poor the most? When he advocated for higher minimum wage? When he supported extended unemployment benefits? Or was it when he "expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, and created new tax credits, like the American Opportunity Tax Credit for college attendees."? These are just the top results from google so I won't bother to go on, but he did absolutely loads to equalize the difference between the classes. Liberals aren't "stupid" because they don't get it, it's just that democrats has a much longer history of actually supporting the middle and lower class with actions instead of shouting the loudest that they do while pocketing the money for themselves and their friends. And yes, that doesn't mean democrats doesn't have "sponsors" (aka, bribery) like republicans which they in turn need to protect the interests of, but that is an inherit problem with the current system as is, and nothing any one person can do anything about. It's nothing about "being too stupid" to realize it. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:24 thePunGun wrote: The sad thing is that neither conservatives nor liberals are smart enough to see through the bullshit that is US politics nowadays. I guess that's what living in an echo chamber does to you... To me it seems the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. Because no economy can survive without a middle class and with net neutrality gone I fear for the worst to be honest. Now the media will feed their propaganda unchallenged by small independent news outlets. The only thing, that will remain of the free voice of the internet will be to quote Simon and Garfunkle: the sound of silence.... most people aren't smart enough to see through politics in general, and that's always been the case; not sure why you'd sya nowadays as if it's actually much different than it ever was. the rest of your stuff seems a bit overwrought, but that may be intentional hyperbole. aside: no surprise that other poster got removed, given their posting quality. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22740 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:54 Excludos wrote: Did I? Because I don't remember Obama committing class warfare against the middle and poor, do you? Was it when he tried to push through a healthcare system which would help the poor the most? When he advocated for higher minimum wage? When he supported extended unemployment benefits? Or was it when he "expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, and created new tax credits, like the American Opportunity Tax Credit for college attendees."? These are just the top results from google so I won't bother to go on, but he did absolutely loads to equalize the difference between the classes. Liberals aren't "stupid" because they don't get it, it's just that democrats has a much longer history of actually supporting the middle and lower class with actions instead of shouting the loudest that they do while pocketing the money for themselves and their friends. And yes, that doesn't mean democrats doesn't have "sponsors" (aka, bribery) like republicans which they in turn need to protect the interests of, but that is an inherit problem with the current system as is, and nothing any one person can do anything about. It's nothing about "being too stupid" to realize it. "the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. " I mean it's not quite right, but it's been made abundantly clear both parties work for their owners (where there are overlapping interests but also factions) it's just Democrats prefer the soft sell over the hard sell. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13754 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:54 Excludos wrote: Did I? Because I don't remember Obama committing class warfare against the middle and poor, do you? Was it when he tried to push through a healthcare system which would help the poor the most? When he advocated for higher minimum wage? When he supported extended unemployment benefits? Or was it when he "expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, and created new tax credits, like the American Opportunity Tax Credit for college attendees."? These are just the top results from google so I won't bother to go on, but he did absolutely loads to equalize the difference between the classes. Liberals aren't "stupid" because they don't get it, it's just that democrats has a much longer history of actually supporting the middle and lower class with actions instead of shouting the loudest that they do while pocketing the money for themselves and their friends. And yes, that doesn't mean democrats doesn't have "sponsors" (aka, bribery) like republicans which they in turn need to protect the interests of, but that is an inherit problem with the current system as is, and nothing any one person can do anything about. It's nothing about "being too stupid" to realize it. I think you missed his point was that he bolded in his quote that it started when trump came into power | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:24 thePunGun wrote: The sad thing is that neither conservatives nor liberals are smart enough to see through the bullshit that is US politics nowadays. I guess that's what living in an echo chamber does to you... To me it seems the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. Because no economy can survive without a middle class and with net neutrality gone I fear for the worst to be honest. Now the media will feed their propaganda unchallenged by small independent news outlets. The only thing, that will remain of the free voice of the internet will be to quote Simon and Garfunkle: the sound of silence.... This seems a rather narrow reading of the situation, that ignores the fact that people are deliberately echo chambering themselves, as a consequence of the US media completely polarising. Fox 'News' is nothing more than state-run media at this point, a 24/7 Trump propoganda machine (and Shepherd Smith) without even a pretense of fairness. Tons of people on the right only watch Fox News to learn about what's happening in the world, and are fed a steady diet of 'liberals are evil traitors trying to destroy YOUR LIFE' day in and day out. CNN - the one most liberals watch - is a slightly less biased but still ardently anti-Trump outfit. Where - precisely - is there ground for compromise here? Where can the conversation begin? People have tried to reach across the aisle, tried to start up conversations. The results are almost always completely disastrous. I've watched it happen. The minute someone says they're liberal around Trump supporters it's like a pack of wild dogs trolling them. A Trump supporter around liberals ends up having to justify every decision the President has made, and they can't or don't want to, so they end up with the usual rhetoric. The US media has responded to the US citizens' preference to treat the news like entertainment, and instead of giving the facts looks for worldview-supporting narratives to push and 'entertainment' such as the sight of talking heads shouting obnoxiously over each other for five minutes straight. Plenty of people 'see through' US politics. But what exactly are they meant to do about it? The only people they can really talk to about it are people on their own side of the political spectrum, and it's increasingly common that left/right wing friend groups simply don't discuss politics to avoid arguments. The polarisation of politics in the US is absolutely insane right now and there's no sign of it stopping. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 02 2018 04:24 thePunGun wrote: The sad thing is that neither conservatives nor liberals are smart enough to see through the bullshit that is US politics nowadays. I guess that's what living in an echo chamber does to you... To me it seems the only goal of the US government is to destroy the middle class and keep the poor and uneducated divided so the rich can remain in charge until this whole system collapses. Because no economy can survive without a middle class and with net neutrality gone I fear for the worst to be honest. Now the media will feed their propaganda unchallenged by small independent news outlets. The only thing, that will remain of the free voice of the internet will be to quote Simon and Garfunkle: the sound of silence.... I don't agree with the root of what you're saying, even though I agree that the rich and well-connected enjoy too much power and influence in society. Not every business can afford to have lobbyists reigning in the regulatory state (and crafting favorable regulations) in DC. I'm still typing in a free and open internet. I will be watching closely to see if internet providers behave as monopolies to critically throttle access to sites, rather than provide faster pipelines for a premium. I think there's value in some facets summed up in "net neutrality," but I'm also tired of this stupid backlash that act like tyranny is inevitable now. Some transparency in reporting backroom deals is merited. I hope my representatives draft and present legislation to that effect soon. If Netflix pays $13bil to Verizon to give faster data transfer speeds to their service, I'd like Verizon customers and the public at large to know about it. I have wariness that's not quite up to fear. In all, I don't trust the government to be fair and honest arbitrators of internet provider abuse. I want the letter of the law to spell out what is and isn't abuse. | ||
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