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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess.
You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised.
I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments.
Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess.
Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you.
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On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:
Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you.
To believe Trump has a grasp of anything is delusional. Aliens in Alpha Centauri have a better grasp on the issues than trump does.
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On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised. I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments. Show nested quote +Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you.
This entire thread is a strawman at this point. Every opportunity is taken by Trumpsters and Never-Hillaries to take the conversation into quasi-philosophical bullshit.
This is systemic of the larger problem at hand. We don't have a 2-party system anymore. Not really. And that's not the fault of "both sides". It is the fault of Republicans. And instead of stepping up and addressing this monster, they've chosen to behave as you have here, in this post. The worst part about Trump is seeing people's desperation to normalize this.
You're here to argue against "the libs". Maybe discuss racism and culture and shit. Like any of that even fucking matters in the slightest when the guy you voted for is currently destroying every sacred, centuries-old norm that made America actually great. You want things to be "Fair and Balanced", as usual. Two-sided. But that shit is gooooooooone, bro. And it won't come back for as long as Trump-voters insist on pointing fingers and deflecting.
I don't like Republicans, but I can at least acknowledge their necessity as being one party to a two-party system. What we're aiming towards, currently, is a one-party system, versus a criminal enterprise that holds a large, screaming, desperate minority. Your party just lost fucking Alabama. It's actually not good for anyone. I'm not sure how this will even work, when the dust settles and the Republican party is in its post-Trump decline, and I'm sure that's what a lot of people in D.C. are worried about.
A lot of people would like to be Republicans or independents, but they currently can't. There is no where for decent, adult non-Democrats to go. Because all the dry political ideology in the world just becomes completely eclipsed by the insane Orwellian dystopic bullshit that you have brought down on us. And instead of owning it, you, and others in this thread, try normalize it. Do you think that's ever going to work? Do you think Trump's comic-book-mafioso-attitude will be accepted as Presidential by the Western-World, if you deflect over it and ignore it hard enough?
You grasp at every irrelevant discussion about race, religion, etc, to convince yourself that this is another year in politics, and like we're not seeing the destruction of America's stature, statesmanship, decorum, alliances, respectability, middle-class, etc, etc, etc.
"Trump might have a better grasp on the issues"? What issue? The man hasn't talked seriously about an issue once in his entire Presidency. He spent today attacking a lifelong FBI servant on Twitter. What fucking issue? You just need to leave your fucking bubble, dude. Turn off the Fox News, or radio, or whatever it is that puts the idea into your head to come in here attacking "the libs" like they're doing anything currently except fighting for what's left of America's sanity. For the good of all of us, including you, just stop.
So yes, it is time for your side, not both sides, to completely re-evaluate itself. It's not fair, and I hope it's not a fairy-tale. Because if you don't, if the Fox News machine wants to tie and sink itself to an idiotic and mean-spirited criminal, then the whole thing is fucked. Best-case scenario is Democrats rule for the next few decades while Republicans sit in the back and whine.
Like, if you or xDaunt actually gave a shit about your actual so-called politics, you would not be here attacking "libs" and defending... Donald Trump. Unless Donald Trump is your politics. If you cared for "conservative values" you would be cleaning house so your party actually has a fucking future. You pretend to care about politics. But what you really care about here, with Trump at your helm, is personality and your tribe.
Of course, you're killing your tribe by protecting it from actually bettering itself, but you don't know that. You think that's a "fairy-tale". I guess it is. Goodbye GOP. You just lost Alabama, you've spent the year attacking the media, the NFL, almost every world leader that isn't a Russian or at least a good white male hetero, and 2018 is here. Guess I'm glad I'm a "lib".
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On December 24 2017 15:06 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:
Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you. To believe Trump has a grasp of anything is delusional. Aliens in Alpha Centauri have a better grasp on the issues than trump does.
How many people in the US have a worse grasp on the issues than aliens? I'm just wondering because it would be quite a miracle if we elected the only one.
On December 24 2017 16:00 Leporello wrote:
I don't like Republicans, but I can at least acknowledge their necessity as being one party to a two-party system. What we're aiming towards, currently, is a one-party system, versus a criminal enterprise that holds a large, screaming, desperate minority. Your party just lost fucking Alabama. It's actually not good for anyone. I'm not sure how this will even work, when the dust settles and the Republican party is in its post-Trump decline, and I'm sure that's what a lot of people in D.C. are worried about.
In 2016 Republicans won the presidency and had a majority at every level of government, House, Senate, state legislatures, governors. Probably when you're on top there's nowhere to go but down and repeat the same cycle, but I don't see whence this leap to "desperate minority." Barely lost one unusual race with an unusual candidate? When was the last time such national attention was focused and dogpiled on a senate race anyway? It's a really unusual circumstance, don't ignore other victories to focus just on one outlier that fits the collapse conclusion.
On December 24 2017 16:00 Leporello wrote:
You grasp at every irrelevant discussion about race, religion, etc, to convince yourself that this is another year in politics, and like we're not seeing the destruction of America's stature, statesmanship, decorum, alliances, respectability, middle-class, etc, etc, etc.
Middle class yes, since a while ago, the rest is mostly intangible stuff that describes what you think people's emotions are, including people's emotions in other countries ("respectability"). Even if it were true, who cares? I mean, "decorum," honestly, these are the real issues. Alliances seem fine as the US keeps making arms deals.
On December 24 2017 16:00 Leporello wrote:
"Trump might have a better grasp on the issues"? What issue? The man hasn't talked seriously about an issue once in his entire Presidency. He spent today attacking a lifelong FBI servant on Twitter.
You can do both, that wasn't his whole day.
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http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/366140-mcconnell-saying-gop-could-lose-both-house-and-senate-in-2018-report
Look, your own party is abandoning you. Paul Ryan was supposed to be your long-term leadership prospect. He had a big political future ahead of him.
Paul Ryan is quitting next year. The future of your party literally just quit...
Read the writing on the wall. Trump posed a challenge. The GOP could sacrifice its current "victory" to retain its longevity. Or they could sell-out the future of their party for the immediate prospect. They chose the latter. They know it, and they're pretty much telling it to you. And you're here attacking the "libs". That's so pathetic to me. If I was a Republican voter, I would be steaming mad at my own party. I would. I would not give two-shits about what the Democrats are currently doing.
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You can do both, that wasn't his whole day.
He also golfed. That's it, though.
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Paul Ryan leaving, that would be great news if it were true, but it's not in what you linked and seems like a gossip rumor. Were you going to vote for Paul Ryan? Because I think he's an empty suit with no principle and most of the US thinks Congress is awful. McConnell as well, who Graham just criticized for giving up too easily on healthcare. I remember the petty campaign heckling that candidate Trump couldn't get the support of the highest elected Republicans, whom I believe he now outranks?
I liked Chaffetz who left politics, but what is this really about? Not everyone stays in politics forever. Nothing wrong with that, it's life. Turnover is not a flaw. To me it's clear the Democrats have a worse issue with a dearth of rising candidates who are serious and compelling than the GOP, but it's politics, that comes with the field. Rand Paul is a personal favorite and Ted Cruz is engaging people as the preeminent Republican-I-could-disagree-with-but-at-least-respect-unlike-Trump.
It's also not my party. Just what you're framing as collapse is actually dynamic politics and constant rebuilding. You started off by making sure everyone knows you don't like Republicans so I wouldn't expect any to rush to heed your advice.
On December 24 2017 16:51 Leporello wrote:He also golfed. That's it, though.
You are capable of reading Trump's twitter because you already cited it, scroll down and see what's been up, it was a busy week. Tax reform, defense appropriations, endorsed someone for governor (doesn't only attack people), talked about North Korea, constantly talks about the economy.
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On December 24 2017 05:57 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. What you're in danger of creating tho is less of a landscape to debate US politics and more of a giant circlejerk where everyone agrees on how retarded everyone in power right now is. As much as it feels good, it's not very very productive. It's the reason I've stopped discussing on r/politics and instead use it as a collection of news to fuel my anger at the current administration. Then again it might be that everything happening right now is just indefensible, and trying to bring in opposing views just clouds the water with strawmen, whataboutism and complete lack of reason and logic instead of bringing in reasonable arguments from every side.
I remember a time where I vehemently disagreed with Kwark. He has very different ideas from mine, but it’s always a pleasure to read him. Now I consider him as basically an ideologocal clone, simply because the discussion is not about the subtelties of economic orientation or unemployment, but if we support literal nazism and if muslims are, or not, a dangerous, worthless sub specie.
There is an interesting middle ground between circle jerking on the same opinions and going through in sequence every Schopenhauer stratagem to always be right with people like Danglar.
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On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised. I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments. Show nested quote +Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you.
Your argument makes a lot of sense when it starts by “all the libs and leftists”.
My problem is not “the right wingers” for me, previsely. It’s you and a couple of other posters who transform this thread in a giant shitshow. It’s been months since we had a sane discussion here. You can just monopolize the thread posting every other answer for months fighting “the left” with your lunacies without listening to anything and anyone.
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On December 24 2017 16:48 Leporello wrote:http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/366140-mcconnell-saying-gop-could-lose-both-house-and-senate-in-2018-reportLook, your own party is abandoning you. Paul Ryan was supposed to be your long-term leadership prospect. He had a big political future ahead of him. Paul Ryan is quitting next year. The future of your party literally just quit... Read the writing on the wall. Trump posed a challenge. The GOP could sacrifice its current "victory" to retain its longevity. Or they could sell-out the future of their party for the immediate prospect. They chose the latter. They know it, and they're pretty much telling it to you. And you're here attacking the "libs". That's so pathetic to me. If I was a Republican voter, I would be steaming mad at my own party. I would. I would not give two-shits about what the Democrats are currently doing.
I think the perspectives for the GOP are really open at that point. That they will lose the next election cycles is certain, but then several options are on the table.
Maybe the transformation into a national populist party is irreversible and the party is trumpised for a very long time.
Either people get tired of that shitshow and the GOP reverts into a very hard right, pro-wealthy stance.
We could also witness an à la french scenario where, like the socialists here, the GOP ends up so weakened by its experience that a third, centrist force emerges. One can hope.
Or they just don’t sort out anything and carry on like that with all the infighting, and lose everything until the dems screw hard enough. That’s the most likely i guess.
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On December 24 2017 16:00 Leporello wrote:
"Trump might have a better grasp on the issues"? What issue? The man hasn't talked seriously about an issue once in his entire Presidency. He spent today attacking a lifelong FBI servant on Twitter. What fucking issue? You just need to leave your fucking bubble, dude. Turn off the Fox News, or radio, or whatever it is that puts the idea into your head to come in here attacking "the libs" like they're doing anything currently except fighting for what's left of America's sanity. For the good of all of us, including you, just stop.
I actually want to know this. What news do you read, Danglars? By what media are your opinions influenced?
And maybe this is good for everyone to be open about. Personally I get more news from twitter than I'm comfortable with, I hope it doesn't ruin my critical thinking. 
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On December 24 2017 18:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 16:48 Leporello wrote:http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/366140-mcconnell-saying-gop-could-lose-both-house-and-senate-in-2018-reportLook, your own party is abandoning you. Paul Ryan was supposed to be your long-term leadership prospect. He had a big political future ahead of him. Paul Ryan is quitting next year. The future of your party literally just quit... Read the writing on the wall. Trump posed a challenge. The GOP could sacrifice its current "victory" to retain its longevity. Or they could sell-out the future of their party for the immediate prospect. They chose the latter. They know it, and they're pretty much telling it to you. And you're here attacking the "libs". That's so pathetic to me. If I was a Republican voter, I would be steaming mad at my own party. I would. I would not give two-shits about what the Democrats are currently doing. I think the perspectives for the GOP are really open at that point. That they will lose the next election cycles is certain, but then several options are on the table. Maybe the transformation into a national populist party is irreversible and the party is trumpised for a very long time. Either people get tired of that shitshow and the GOP reverts into a very hard right, pro-wealthy stance. We could also witness an à la french scenario where, like the socialists here, the GOP ends up so weakened by its experience that a third, centrist force emerges. One can hope. Or they just don’t sort out anything and carry on like that with all the infighting, and lose everything until the dems screw hard enough. That’s the most likely i guess.
I think its pretty safe to argue that the Republican Party has already decided that they want to become an ethnic party. They still don't give a shit about Puerto Rico, they're still trying to stop Mexicans from coming in never mind all of the white illegal immigrants up north, and they're actively trying to draw support from the alt-right. Whether or not its actually true, I think the people themselves are starting to believe it to be true. Its one of the main reasons Doug Jones was able to turn out more black voters than Barack Obama. Its not like Doug Jones is the black whisperer, he's really just a old white man who wasn't a complete shithead as a prosecutor.
The common trend in the Alabama and Virginia elections was that the Democratic Party was able to find a way to dramatically drive up the youth and minority vote. In some cases, like that actual communist that got elected in Virginia, they managed to win without any formal Democratic Party support. I think Charles Barkley put it right: stuff like the Republican Tax Cut give millionaires like him some extra gambling money and Rolex watches (his words, he probably means more money for discretionary spending) but the rural poor in Alabama are never going to see a single cent of his discretionary spending. Seeing people suffer while you're getting "help" you don't even need sits badly with people with some morals, even for people like Barkley who think a lot of problems black communities face are solely the fault of of the black people.
If the President was a southern working man, they'd might be able to reconcile economic populism with policies that do everything for the already wealthy. The issue is that it just doesn't work right now because Donald Trump is the most transparently self-serving man who also happens to be a caricature of an East Coat elite. Assuming the Democratic Party can maintain the momentum, the question is if the Republican Party can reconcile their current approach with someone a little smarter who actually knows what humility is (I suspect they can).
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Man what a bunch of whiny hipsters blaming all the problems on the monsters they created in their heads. Take some responsibility and do something about the issue instead of just contributing to it more. I dont think I've ever read so much overthought trash as this page.
You can't be so far removed from reality to see that you're literally involved in the arguments you pretend to hate right?
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On December 24 2017 23:36 Sermokala wrote:
Man what a bunch of whiny hipsters blaming all the problems on the monsters they created in their heads. Take some responsibility and do something about the issue instead of just contributing to it more. I dont think I've ever read so much overthought trash as this page.
You can't be so far removed from reality to see that you're literally involved in the arguments you pretend to hate right?
What exactly are you trying to say here?
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On December 24 2017 23:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 23:36 Sermokala wrote:
Man what a bunch of whiny hipsters blaming all the problems on the monsters they created in their heads. Take some responsibility and do something about the issue instead of just contributing to it more. I dont think I've ever read so much overthought trash as this page.
You can't be so far removed from reality to see that you're literally involved in the arguments you pretend to hate right? What exactly are you trying to say here?
A couple things. People complaining about how bad things that are completely under their control are. People declaring the republican party dead for decades as it sits at the highest its been in a long time. Remember when people thought Bush killed the party or when obama showed an easy way to electoral victory for the democrats for a generation? All leps post is just whine after moan after complaint about nonsense he creates in his head. Yet people eat it up like the cheerleaders they are because trump giving them a moral highground is the only thing that matters.
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On December 24 2017 18:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised. I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you. Your argument makes a lot of sense when it starts by “all the libs and leftists”. My problem is not “the right wingers” for me, previsely. It’s you and a couple of other posters who transform this thread in a giant shitshow. It’s been months since we had a sane discussion here. You can just monopolize the thread posting every other answer for months fighting “the left” with your lunacies without listening to anything and anyone.
This is entirely in your control, as previously stated. You admit you get triggered, but if all you got is a base trigger-response and zero argument, don’t respond. Let the topic die. Don’t engage in a pissing match with shit arguments just because you think someone else offered a shit argument. You don’t get to point at the resulting shitstorm and blame one side. If you can’t post without blathering and nonsensical outrage at xDaunt or I just shared, stay out for the thread’s good.
Maybe you can even recruit more moderates and independents to this thread if you show it’s not about sixteen left wingers against three on the American right-spectrum, but about conversations on issues. I get down in the mud with people like you from time to time to see if you like your own medicine. It turns out, you only like shitposting from your own ideological point of view.
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On December 25 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2017 18:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised. I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you. Your argument makes a lot of sense when it starts by “all the libs and leftists”. My problem is not “the right wingers” for me, previsely. It’s you and a couple of other posters who transform this thread in a giant shitshow. It’s been months since we had a sane discussion here. You can just monopolize the thread posting every other answer for months fighting “the left” with your lunacies without listening to anything and anyone. This is entirely in your control, as previously stated. You admit you get triggered, but if all you got is a base trigger-response and zero argument, don’t respond. Let the topic die. Don’t engage in a pissing match with shit arguments just because you think someone else offered a shit argument. You don’t get to point at the resulting shitstorm and blame one side. If you can’t post without blathering and nonsensical outrage at xDaunt or I just shared, stay out for the thread’s good. Maybe you can even recruit more moderates and independents to this thread if you show it’s not about sixteen left wingers against three on the American right-spectrum, but about conversations on issues. I get down in the mud with people like you from time to time to see if you like your own medicine. It turns out, you only like shitposting from your own ideological point of view.
Danglars, you’ll have to believe me there: it’s not 16 left winger against you three from somewhere reasonable on the right. It’s people from all around the spectrum against three far right extremists. Do you know that Kwark is actually centre right? Hell I’m myself a solid centrist in Norway. You want moderates? There are almost no real left wingers on the international spectrum here. Maybe GH.
For anyone else but americans your opinion are not just right wing. They are wayyyyyy past normality. In France, absolutely anyone outside the front national neo fascists would consider that your stance on basically any issue is complete lunacy. And the fact that you argue with a siege mentality against all those uniform liberals that keep telling you you are talking crazy simply ruins the thread.
Trump and his policies have an approval rating of 7% in Spain, 11% in Germany. Outside swedish democrats voters (a party that had its meeting in nazi uniform until 1996), you are at 4% in Sweden.
The narrative that you are resisting in an echo chamber liberal circle jerk is false. The fact is that this is an international forum, and that the opinions you think make perfect sense and argue with all your energy for are incredibly shocking for a vast majority of us. We can go somewhere the day you realize that.
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On December 25 2017 01:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:On December 24 2017 18:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 13:59 Danglars wrote:On December 24 2017 05:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 24 2017 01:54 Uldridge wrote:
You can ignore the people that choose to not understand the argument, like Sermokola did last page. You can choose to ignore xDaunt and Danglars when they make their insane remarks. A more productive route can also be chosen instead of trash discussions for the sake of trash discussions. If people have the patience, time and willingness to dig up posts from each other from several cycles ago, they're certainly serious enough to engage into something. Maybe that can be channeled into something more productive, IDK. Maybe it's not possible and people just want to sling mud at each other the entire time. Maybe that's more fun than talking about what's possible or how to move on in the future or how certain policies can/will shape the societal landscape. I personally love being educated and love talking possibilities/hypotheticals, so when I'm visiting and walk into one of those I'll gladly be part of it.
So my question then is this: why is this thread still alive, or not being more strictly moderated, because it's literally the same 3 topics being talked about ad nauseam and maybe 10% of it being actually US politics stuff. We either need a seperate thread for this, or we need to rename it to: society, people don't agree with each other. I have to say that 75% of the time the thread has a sterile, polemic tone, but then again, it reflects the sterile, polemic political landscape of the US. So many pages are simply about Danglar fighting the world with unlimited supply if bad faith and shitty arguments, everyone (including me) getting triggered by it, and RiK and xDaunt throwing their ultra far right insight and everyone normal losing their sanity. It’s a defeat to admit it, but if this thread was split into « US politics megathread for sane people » and an « argue endlessly with Danglar and xDaunt thread over the merit of ethnostates, 19th century racial theories and how worthless eveything and everyone connected to Africa and Islam is », we would at least have a chance to have an interesting bit of discussion from time to time. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. You forgot all the libs and leftists trying to twist things into arguments that weren’t made in order to have an easier time of it. Well, that would essentially be a personal admission of guilt, so I’m not really that surprised. I just gotta say, the label and dismiss “herp derp it’s sane vs insane here” doesn’t reflect that well on you. You build a culture of, well in your words “getting triggered by it,” instead of ignoring alt-right breakdowns you dislike or discussions about western civilization that you abhor. If you think it’s too out of left field for your brain, just roll your eyes and move on. There’s little need for idiotic rants and straw men. Or responding to the perception of shitty arguments with actual shitty arguments. Now, US politics in general is shaped by the fact that the GOP doesn’t even try anymore to make sense and seems to be a competition about who displays the least intelectual integrity / is the biggest pond scum, so we are doing ok at reflecting it I guess. Let’s just have you admit your side is wrong and dishonest. This is a children’s book approach. I’m little red riding hood, you’re the big bad wolf, now admit you ate grandma! It’s like your whole point in this post is to prove you’re an ideological crusader and extremist pretending to accurately call out misbehavior. Trump might have a better grasp on the issues and party issues than you. Your argument makes a lot of sense when it starts by “all the libs and leftists”. My problem is not “the right wingers” for me, previsely. It’s you and a couple of other posters who transform this thread in a giant shitshow. It’s been months since we had a sane discussion here. You can just monopolize the thread posting every other answer for months fighting “the left” with your lunacies without listening to anything and anyone. This is entirely in your control, as previously stated. You admit you get triggered, but if all you got is a base trigger-response and zero argument, don’t respond. Let the topic die. Don’t engage in a pissing match with shit arguments just because you think someone else offered a shit argument. You don’t get to point at the resulting shitstorm and blame one side. If you can’t post without blathering and nonsensical outrage at xDaunt or I just shared, stay out for the thread’s good. Maybe you can even recruit more moderates and independents to this thread if you show it’s not about sixteen left wingers against three on the American right-spectrum, but about conversations on issues. I get down in the mud with people like you from time to time to see if you like your own medicine. It turns out, you only like shitposting from your own ideological point of view. Danglars, you’ll have to believe me there: it’s not 16 left winger against you three from somewhere reasonable on the right. It’s people from all around the spectrum against three far right extremists. Do you know that Kwark is actually centre right? Hell I’m myself a solid centrist in Norway. You want moderates? There are almost no real left wingers on the international spectrum here. Maybe GH. For anyone else but americans your opinion are not just right wing. They are wayyyyyy past normality. In France, absolutely anyone outside the front national neo fascists would consider that your stance on basically any issue is complete lunacy. And the fact that you argue with a siege mentality against all those uniform liberals that keep telling you you are talking crazy simply ruins the thread. Trump and his policies have an approval rating of 7% in Spain, 11% in Germany. Outside swedish democrats voters (a party that had its meeting in nazi uniform until 1996), you are at 4% in Sweden. The narrative that you are resisting in an echo chamber liberal circle jerk is false. The fact is that this is an international forum, and that the opinions you think make perfect sense and argue with all your energy for are incredibly shocking for a vast majority of us. We can go somewhere the day you realize that.
You’re pretty funny. Maybe in your corner of the world it is à la mode to declare “I am true center right, I’m only in your left wing because your center right is stupid!!!” Yeah, idiotic and proving all the stereotypes. You’re being no different than the dolts that declare everything socialism and communism that’s to the left of them. Get a grip, buddy. If you want to stay in the Euro thread, have a blast. In US Politics, we have different coalitions of left and right, and you better be damn sure you must argue the point and not subsist in calling the other side extremists. You’re literally proving all the stereotypes about Europeans true.
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left/right/center don't really matter.
what matters is whether you have cogent and sound arguments.
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EPT
