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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9597
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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oBlade
United States6400 Posts
On December 24 2017 22:45 doomdonker wrote: I think its pretty safe to argue that the Republican Party has already decided that they want to become an ethnic party. They still don't give a shit about Puerto Rico, they're still trying to stop Mexicans from coming in never mind all of the white illegal immigrants up north, and they're actively trying to draw support from the alt-right. Whether or not its actually true, I think the people themselves are starting to believe it to be true. Its one of the main reasons Doug Jones was able to turn out more black voters than Barack Obama. Its not like Doug Jones is the black whisperer, he's really just a old white man who wasn't a complete shithead as a prosecutor. What are those white illegal immigrants, can you tell? As far as I know the majority of illegal border crossings are on the southern border and people from Mexico and south and central America. That would be a logical priority if you thought it was an issue. And I don't think he turned out more. It's a special election so turnout is down, everyone's turnout was down, what's special is red team's turnout was extremely down, like the people who didn't show up would have beaten both candidates. Jones had a higher share of black votes than previous candidates but absolute turnout, like number of voters, was down compared to Obama. On December 24 2017 22:45 doomdonker wrote: If the President was a southern working man, they'd might be able to reconcile economic populism with policies that do everything for the already wealthy. The issue is that it just doesn't work right now because Donald Trump is the most transparently self-serving man who also happens to be a caricature of an East Coat elite. Assuming the Democratic Party can maintain the momentum, the question is if the Republican Party can reconcile their current approach with someone a little smarter who actually knows what humility is (I suspect they can). Humble people do not really become presidents of countries. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On December 25 2017 02:58 hunts wrote: I'd say I'm center, I would vote republican if the candidate was sane and genuinely the better option. I honestly believe xDaunt danglas Sermokala oBlade rik are literally posting while wearing tinfoil hats and fighting the nuses about not wanting their pills because the pills interfere with the voices. This isn't about "the evil left being against you" bro, this is about everyone thinking you're literally batshit crazy and severed from reality. odd to conflate all of them together; each one has different degrees of out-there-ness, plus other peculiarities of how they present which indicate different patterns to each of them. no need for such hyperbole, especially applied to all of them. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22533 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:04 oBlade wrote: Humble people do not really become presidents of countries. I wouldn't have described Obama as bragging. I would probably have described him as humble. But whatever it takes for you to have peace with Trump's personality. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:11 zlefin wrote: odd to conflate all of them together; each one has different degrees of out-there-ness, plus other peculiarities of how they present which indicate different patterns to each of them. no need for such hyperbole, especially applied to all of them. You are right, they are each different people, with their own brands of far right crazy and their own nuances. They do all share certain traits though. All seem to be right wing and Trump supporters to the bitter end. All will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics and will lie strawman whatabout and argue in bad faith to attempt to defend trump and their party. None of them have a very good relationship with reality, and they all love to lump everyone who disagrees with them into "the evil libs." Of course lumping them all together is incorrect snd is what they do, but with how much they have shown to refuse to argue in good faith, do they really deserve better? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:15 Gorsameth wrote: I wouldn't have described Obama as bragging. I would probably have described him as humble. But whatever it takes for you to have peace with Trump's personality. I'd say every modern president in Germanys history was humble. At least as far as I can think back and remember? Obviously the comparison would be chancelor in Germany's case but I don't think Merkel is a braggard either. On December 25 2017 02:24 Danglars wrote: You’re pretty funny. Maybe in your corner of the world it is à la mode to declare “I am true center right, I’m only in your left wing because your center right is stupid!!!” Yeah, idiotic and proving all the stereotypes. You’re being no different than the dolts that declare everything socialism and communism that’s to the left of them. Get a grip, buddy. If you want to stay in the Euro thread, have a blast. In US Politics, we have different coalitions of left and right, and you better be damn sure you must argue the point and not subsist in calling the other side extremists. You’re literally proving all the stereotypes about Europeans true. it's true though. I get that basicly everything from Europe is to the left for you as our spectrum tends to be more left as a whole but the examples given are sound. It might be easy for you to bunch everyone together as "the left" [in this thread] because that's your perspective on things, probably even a correct one from your point of view. But it sure as hell doesn't help to make your point when people who consider themselves center-right (Kwark) or someone who's leaning slightly center-/libertarian (that'd be me for example) has to read nonstop about how "all the lefties in here" gang up on people and everyone's supposed to be part of that. People just lose you right then and there and aren't even willing to take you seriously anymore. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:24 hunts wrote: You are right, they are each different people, with their own brands of far right crazy and their own nuances. They do all share certain traits though. All seem to be right wing and Trump supporters to the bitter end. All will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics and will lie strawman whatabout and argue in bad faith to attempt to defend trump and their party. None of them have a very good relationship with reality, and they all love to lump everyone who disagrees with them into "the evil libs." Of course lumping them all together is incorrect snd is what they do, but with how much they have shown to refuse to argue in good faith, do they really deserve better? i'm pretty sure some of those aren't trump supporters at all. and some of them definitely aren't far right crazy. there's a lot of variation amongst each of them as to how much they argue in bad faith, and for some of them it's pretty mild. regardless of what they deserve, the rest of us in the thread deserve better points than you're making with your terribly sloppy and inaccurate assessments. misclassifying people simply isn't helpful at all. nor is misstating their positions. | ||
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oBlade
United States6400 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:15 Gorsameth wrote: I wouldn't have described Obama as bragging. I would probably have described him as humble. But whatever it takes for you to have peace with Trump's personality. I was trying to make a broader observation than something about Trump - people who support him aren't constantly secretly scrabbling to internally justify themselves to your satisfaction. That you really shouldn't expect many humble politicians, and ego is coincident with the ambition to get elected especially for the tippy top of the food chain. For public image in my head I had to go back to Jimmy Carter for the US, but then I don't really know enough about the real Jimmy Carter in this case to say whether that's accurate. Someone being out of the limelight now or being eloquent isn't a humility indicator, I think it'd be naive to confuse those. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 25 2017 03:31 zlefin wrote: i'm pretty sure some of those aren't trump supporters at all. and some of them definitely aren't far right crazy. there's a lot of variation amongst each of them as to how much they argue in bad faith, and for some of them it's pretty mild. regardless of what they deserve, the rest of us in the thread deserve better points than you're making with your terribly sloppy and inaccurate assessments. misclassifying people simply isn't helpful at all. nor is misstating their positions. You are right, I don't need to contribute to the amount of bad posts with ones such as that. | ||
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A3th3r
United States319 Posts
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micronesia
United States24793 Posts
On December 25 2017 04:05 A3th3r wrote: Trump puts people to work - that's what got the guy elected is his determination to make sure that every person in this country is gainfully employed in some way How does Trump put people to work? I won't deny he's claimed he would put everyone to work, but is there evidence that he's following up on that pledge? | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 25 2017 04:11 micronesia wrote: How does Trump put people to work? I won't deny he's claimed he would put everyone to work, but is there evidence that he's following up on that pledge? I mean, the US system creates roughly 200k jobs a month under Trump (if I'm not ridiculously misremembering things here). You can read about that on all kinds of rightleaning outlets. What you won't hear about is that that's basicly break-even for the US job market as that much new jobs are needed to keep it on the same level with the amount of new people searching jobs due to growing population. You won't hear about Obama being on basicly the same levels of jobcreation either. But yes, technically speaking he is putting people to work and it makes for nice headlines if you leave out the details. Just to clarify: I'm not trying to imply it's bad at all I just haven't read anything about it being significantly better either. | ||
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A3th3r
United States319 Posts
On December 25 2017 04:11 micronesia wrote: How does Trump put people to work? I won't deny he's claimed he would put everyone to work, but is there evidence that he's following up on that pledge? The GOP just pushed through a tax bill where now it is easier to do business in this state. Trump signed that bill. I freely admit that he favors the foreign countries. He is very close with our biggest (foreign) trading partner, China. The TPP excluded China so he left that trade group to show support for his business partner. Also, early on in his presidency, he closed a deal that put a new factory in Vietnam. In the states, I think that Trump deserves the credit for bringing in a Samsung factory to South Carolina. http://bgr.com/2017/03/08/samsung-bribery-new-factory-us-jobs/ | ||
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brian
United States9643 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On December 25 2017 04:22 A3th3r wrote: The GOP just pushed through a tax bill where now it is easier to do business in this state. Trump signed that bill. I freely admit that he favors the foreign countries. He is very close with our biggest (foreign) trading partner, China. The TPP excluded China so he left that trade group to show support for his business partner. Also, early on in his presidency, he closed a deal that put a new factory in Vietnam. In the states, I think that Trump deserves the credit for bringing in a Samsung factory to South Carolina. http://bgr.com/2017/03/08/samsung-bribery-new-factory-us-jobs/ are you being serious or sarcastic? it's hard to tell these days sometimes. that link notes that (at the time of it, which is 9 months ago) it's all talk, and nothing definite is happening. it's also a pittance worth of jobs, and little indication to justify crediting trump with it. after all, piles of businesses move all the time anyways; credit is not warranted if it's something that would've happened anyways. nor is credit warranted if it's achieved through bribery making it de facto welfare payments. and the GOP pushed through an exceptionally bad tax bill, which clearly had nothin to do with putting people to work or sound policy. so no really sure where you point with that was going, or maybe it needs more detail. not sure what your point is on TPP either, because it doesn't seem to make much sense. | ||
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A3th3r
United States319 Posts
On December 25 2017 04:30 zlefin wrote: are you being serious or sarcastic? it's hard to tell these days sometimes. that link notes that (at the time of it, which is 9 months ago) it's all talk, and nothing definite is happening. it's also a pittance worth of jobs, and little indication to justify crediting trump with it. after all, piles of businesses move all the time anyways; credit is not warranted if it's something that would've happened anyways. nor is credit warranted if it's achieved through bribery making it de facto welfare payments. and the GOP pushed through an exceptionally bad tax bill, which clearly had nothin to do with putting people to work or sound policy. so no really sure where you point with that was going, or maybe it needs more detail. not sure what your point is on TPP either, because it doesn't seem to make much sense. Trump left the TPP because China wasn't in it & the USA trades the most with China. More than Japan, Myanmar, Indonesia, or any of the other small pacific nations that are in the TPP. Then he visited China & they had a trade summit. Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that Trump favors China. I'd say that is a sensible policy to have, as that is our most important ally right now, even more important than Canada. The tax bill makes so that the highest individual tax rate a person can be taxed at is 37%. That seems somewhat reasonable to me as I would be upset if I had to give half of the money that I earned to the government. That benefits successful people like me! The Samsung factory in South Carolina puts a lot of people to work. Just after Trump took office & defeated Hillary Clinton in a somewhat close race, that factory was announced. NICE! More jobs for the poor. I guess I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not as it seemed pretty clear to me in the first post but I guess this clarifies things a little | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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micronesia
United States24793 Posts
On December 25 2017 05:06 A3th3r wrote: How do you know reducing the upper tax bracket rate will put people to work? Also, where did your 'half' figure come from? The upper tax rate is dropping from ~40% to 37%. Finally, why are you pointing to your success?The tax bill makes so that the highest individual tax rate a person can be taxed at is 37%. That seems somewhat reasonable to me as I would be upset if I had to give half of the money that I earned to the government. That benefits successful people like me! The Samsung factory in South Carolina puts a lot of people to work. Just after Trump took office & defeated Hillary Clinton in a somewhat close race, that factory was announced. NICE! More jobs for the poor. I don't think one controversial example of a new factory is really substantiating your claim that Trump puts people to work. Also, why are you pointing to the election results which are not relevant? | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
in the trump era poe's law is in full effect. do you have a link covering what has happened since then with that factory? | ||
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