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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22683 Posts
On December 05 2017 07:48 Nevuk wrote: This is probably the most damning evidence so far. There is a lot more evidence than the single yearbook signature. Evidence is irrelevant to those who vote Moore. He could rape a child on live tv and they will still vote for him because voting for a D is unacceptable. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 05 2017 07:18 xDaunt wrote: Why would you even dignify that shit with a response? I’m a little bored at work waiting for something to finish, and sometimes that puts me into the mood to feed the trolls. We have “biggoted jerk,” “freedom of cult,” “people who ain’t brown,” “Batman villains,” and assholes. He almost hit all the top shitlib tropes in two short paragraphs, minus killing thousands or millions and sexism. It should earn a thread moderation silver star. | ||
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amyamyamy
76 Posts
On December 05 2017 07:45 Nyxisto wrote: That sounds like an obscure edge case because very few products can be customised that way. You could probably include the qualification that the products cannot be demeaning or used for harassment or whatever What if someone comes to your bakery and behaves poorly, shouldnt you be able to deny them service just for the reason that you dont feel like serving assholes? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On December 05 2017 07:54 Danglars wrote: I’m a little bored at work waiting for something to finish, and sometimes that puts me into the mood to feed the trolls. We have “biggoted jerk,” “freedom of cult,” “people who ain’t brown,” “Batman villains,” and assholes. He almost hit all the top shitlib tropes in two short paragraphs, minus killing thousands or millions and sexism. It should earn a thread moderation silver star. You are aware that xdaunt just wrote not 1 hour ago that he belives that Muslims should be kept out of USA. He also wrote a while ago that he voted for Trump because the Democratic party gave him a choice of either a woman or a black as a choice for president. Also that for him, freedom means family values and Western values mean the protestant church. Batman villains have more naunce. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote: You are aware that xdaunt just wrote not 1 hour ago that he belives that Muslims should be kept out of USA. He also wrote a while ago that he voted for Trump because the Democratic party gave him a choice of either a woman or a black as a choice for president. Also that for him, freedom means family values and Western values mean the protestant church. Batman villains have more naunce. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about here, but that's pretty much par for the course with you. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:07 xDaunt wrote: To be clear on my rather blase response to doomdonker, and consistent with my prior posting on the subject, I'm in favor of higher scrutiny on Muslim applicants by US immigration given the well-document higher incidence of incompatibility between Muslim values and American/Western values. I would apply the same heightened scrutiny to any other group whose values tend to fundamentally clash with our own. But beyond that, I'm not advocating for a complete ban on Muslim immigration. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about here, but that's pretty much par for the course with you. Using your own definition of 'Western values' (belief in individual liberty, inalienable rights, political plurality and the rule of law (which are mostly themselves just cultural expressions of a capitalist society)) I assume you will be calling for the deportation of Trump fairly soon. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12070 Posts
It seems to me that a lot of conservative christians would be very happy to live in a christian saudi arabia, with the only difference being the majority religion, all else being equal. Women are sufficiently subservient to their Edit: Note that that is a subset of those groups i am talking about. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:17 Plansix wrote: Muslim’s values don’t seem any more incompatible than the state of Alabama’s values. I don’t see any real reason to limit their immigration, especially if they are refugees. Because, it has been proven over and over that refugees don’t commit acts of terror. If you truly believe that, then you really are lost in a sea of false equivalence. Y'all on the left love to be the champions of gay and women rights, but for whatever reason, y'all just can't help yourselves when it comes to relentlessly defending the very people who have the nasty habit of throwing gays off of roofs and oppressing women. Say what you want about Bubba down in Alabama, but his "homophobia" and "misogyny" aren't in the same league as what you'll find in the Muslim world. It's not even the same sport. And I haven't even gotten to the Muslim idea of the relationship between church and state. I can abuse you liberals on this shit all day. EDIT: And if you don't want to hear this from me, go listen to Bill Maher. He's ranted extensively on liberal hypocrisy when it comes to Muslims. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On December 05 2017 07:54 amyamyamy wrote: What if someone comes to your bakery and behaves poorly, shouldnt you be able to deny them service just for the reason that you dont feel like serving assholes? yes, but that again is a separate legal issue. Opening the door for discrimination for this reason doesn't make sense. This usually isn't even an issue in clubs where people often misbehave but you wouldn't allow someone to say exclude African Americans from a bar because of it. In every day retail the overwhelming majority buys and sells without a lot of friction. Trying to model law just for tiny exception doesn't seem reasonable. Most establishments have house rights or rules. If someone breaks them throw them out, that shouldn't be a problem to prove. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:07 xDaunt wrote: To be clear on my rather blase response to doomdonker, and consistent with my prior posting on the subject, I'm in favor of higher scrutiny on Muslim applicants by US immigration given the well-document higher incidence of incompatibility between Muslim values and American/Western values. I would apply the same heightened scrutiny to any other group whose values tend to fundamentally clash with our own. But beyond that, I'm not advocating for a complete ban on Muslim immigration. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about here, but that's pretty much par for the course with you. Is this a competition to top “Batman villain” and “motivated solely by assholery” that Biff constructed? I’m literally amazed that I missed your clear-up that choices of blacks and women inspired your Trump vote. That’s some blockbuster stuff. I read every post in this thread, save for some of kwizach’s dispensations in the past. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:24 xDaunt wrote: If you truly believe that, then you really are lost in a sea of false equivalence. Y'all on the left love to be the champions of gay and women rights, but for whatever reason, y'all just can't help yourselves when it comes to relentlessly defending the very people who have the nasty habit of throwing gays off of roofs and oppressing women. Say what you want about Bubba down in Alabama, but his "homophobia" and "misogyny" aren't in the same league as what you'll find in the Muslim world. It's not even the same sport. And I haven't even gotten to the Muslim idea of the relationship between church and state. I can abuse you liberals on this shit all day. So, presumably, if a Muslim from a country which has no record of throwing gay people off roofs, or oppressing women, you have no problem with their immigration standards being the same as everyone else's? Does it not cross your mind that, if someone is trying to leave a country in which they throw people off roofs and oppress women, then that suggests, culturally, they are at odds with that country? Presumably, given the treatment of women in these Muslim countries, you'd have no problem allowing women in from these countries so that they might escape this oppression? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:24 xDaunt wrote: If you truly believe that, then you really are lost in a sea of false equivalence. Y'all on the left love to be the champions of gay and women rights, but for whatever reason, y'all just can't help yourselves when it comes to relentlessly defending the very people who have the nasty habit of throwing gays off of roofs and oppressing women. Say what you want about Bubba down in Alabama, but his "homophobia" and "misogyny" aren't in the same league as what you'll find in the Muslim world. It's not even the same sport. And I haven't even gotten to the Muslim idea of the relationship between church and state. I can abuse you liberals on this shit all day. Lets be serious, they are voting for a man that sexually assaults teenage girls and said homosexuality should be a crime. I have no doubt that there is a section of Alabama that would throw gays off the roof. Just because they can't get away with it doesn't mean they don't want to. There were plenty of people down south that loved lynching black people until we stopped them. Hell, you go back to the civil war and a lot of New York City was super into lynch black people until the Union army shot the hell out of them. So yeah, I think Moore and the Muslim leaders you constantly cite have a lot in common. The big difference is they can get away with it, Moore couldn't. But if he could, he would. Also, Muslims are 1.5 billion people. So unless you are willing to be judged by the very worst of white Christian, maybe limit that argument a little bit. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:29 kollin wrote: So, presumably, if a Muslim from a country which has no record of throwing gay people off roofs, or oppressing women, you have no problem with their immigration standards being the same as everyone else's? Does it not cross your mind that, if someone is trying to leave a country in which they throw people off roofs and oppress women, then that suggests, culturally, they are at odds with that country? Presumably, given the treatment of women in these Muslim countries, you'd have no problem allowing women in from these countries so that they might escape this oppression? I don't think you can say people leaving these countries means they don't agree with social policies of these countries. In fact, we have loads of indication otherwise. Do we need a reminder of Germany's issues? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:29 kollin wrote: So, presumably, if a Muslim from a country which has no record of throwing gay people off roofs, or oppressing women, you have no problem with their immigration standards being the same as everyone else's? Does it not cross your mind that, if someone is trying to leave a country in which they throw people off roofs and oppress women, then that suggests, culturally, they are at odds with that country? Presumably, given the treatment of women in these Muslim countries, you'd have no problem allowing women in from these countries so that they might escape this oppression? Because there is no evidence that the Muslims leaving those countries are solely "the good ones" whose values are compatible with Western values. The evidence shows otherwise. All you need to do is look at polling of the attitudes and values of the Muslim populations in European countries or elsewhere. Large numbers of them hold views that antithetical to Western values. Like I pointed out a year or two ago, a great example of this is Muslims in the UK using English arbitration laws to circumvent English courts and establish de facto Sharia courts. The significance of an immigrant population rejecting the established legal system and legal traditions cannot be underestimated. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:33 Mohdoo wrote: I don't think you can say people leaving these countries means they don't agree with social policies of these countries. In fact, we have loads of indication otherwise. Do we need a reminder of Germany's issues? We are not Germany. We have very different immigration policies and are much stricter. We are beyond picky with our refugees, so it is not a problem. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 05 2017 08:39 xDaunt wrote: Speaking of Germany, did y'all read about how Germany is offering the refugees (who are mostly Muslim) money to leave? Who are y'all trying to kid here with this "unfettered Muslim immigration is good" business? Literally no one said "unfettered" immigration of any kind was good, please find a single example of someone doing so. The refugee crisis in Europe was a failure of the EU to deal with it in a way that was both politically expedient and humanitarian regardless, but keep trying to milk it for a poisonous, nationalist agenda. | ||
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