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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important.
Yes, but i can still see how this thread is now about 50% about stupid shit Trump says. Trump is very good at producing a constant stream of complete bullshit. Just because he is the US president doesn't mean that his verbal diarrhea needs to fill up this thread. I just don't think his utterances are that important. We already know that most of the stuff he says is not connected to any reality.
I think we are giving Trumps words too much attention. They don't mean a lot to him, so why should they matter to us? We should take a look at Trumps actions, and maybe the words of people whose words actually have any value. Trump is the epitome of "talk is cheap".
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On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important.
The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there.
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On October 27 2017 00:50 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there.
But the tweet lead to the discussion everyone is having right now. You started it and then we discussed the merits of its existence and why people come to the thread.
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On October 27 2017 00:39 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2017 12:10 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 25 2017 10:57 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:52 Plansix wrote:
Again, the opposition. Red team vs blue team. There is no goal of homogeneity, only division and opposition. Co-existence with the left is impossible for the modern conservative. Dominance is the only end game they accept. It's not about us vs them. It's about policy and principle. My relentless criticism of the GOP should make that obvious. You need to ditch this stupid theory of yours. Genuinely curious what principles you're talking about? The central tenets of conservativism can be broadly distilled down to 1) individual liberty, 2) importance of family, 3) national strength, 4) capitalism, and 5) civic virtue and morality. The GOP has talked a very big game on Nos 1 and 4, but have badly failed to deliver. I don't see how this distinctly differs from leftism (Clinton is not a leftist).
I mean, things are a bit vague and meaningless with high-level "values" like this, but I don't think the left cares about family (at least in the sense conservatives mean) and they're often quite hostile to capitalism.
That's an interesting list though. If those are what conservatives care about, why would they choose Trump as their champion? He doesn't seem to give a shit about individual liberty, he's an insult to family values, represents capitalism only in its ugliest, most dystopian sense, and is almost completely amoral in his philosophy. The only one on that list he's big on is national strength, making him more a nationalist than a conservative.
Some #NeverTrump-type conservatives insist he isn't a real conservative, but they seem to be a tiny minority. If those five things are what conservatives care about, in what sense is he even on their side?
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On October 27 2017 00:50 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. Yes, but i can still see how this thread is now about 50% about stupid shit Trump says. Trump is very good at producing a constant stream of complete bullshit. Just because he is the US president doesn't mean that his verbal diarrhea needs to fill up this thread. I just don't think his utterances are that important. We already know that most of the stuff he says is not connected to any reality. I think we are giving Trumps words too much attention. They don't mean a lot to him, so why should they matter to us? We should take a look at Trumps actions, and maybe the words of people whose words actually have any value. Trump is the epitome of "talk is cheap".
they should matter to us regardless because he’s our president and represents our interests on a world stage.
the rest of the post is well taken and definitely should be considered before posting it here. but whether it’s clogging up this thread or not you(rather, we)should certainly be concerned about what he says whether it means anything to him or not.
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On October 27 2017 00:50 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there.
it kinda seems like this statement of yours is going against your overall thesis:
"If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people"
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I got some interesting liberal and perhaps even libertarian perspectives from this thread. Can't say I got anything conservative I'm afraid but it's not exactly surprising given who I am.
At the same time, I'm more to the left now than I was when I first started reading the thread, so... Influence only goes so far.
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Norway28738 Posts
On October 27 2017 00:39 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2017 12:10 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 25 2017 10:57 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:52 Plansix wrote:
Again, the opposition. Red team vs blue team. There is no goal of homogeneity, only division and opposition. Co-existence with the left is impossible for the modern conservative. Dominance is the only end game they accept. It's not about us vs them. It's about policy and principle. My relentless criticism of the GOP should make that obvious. You need to ditch this stupid theory of yours. Genuinely curious what principles you're talking about? The central tenets of conservativism can be broadly distilled down to 1) individual liberty, 2) importance of family, 3) national strength, 4) capitalism, and 5) civic virtue and morality. The GOP has talked a very big game on Nos 1 and 4, but have badly failed to deliver. I don't see how this distinctly differs from leftism (Clinton is not a leftist).
Really? As a self-defined leftist, I don't really give a crap about 2,3 and 4 there. individual liberty is incredibly important (a good part of why I'm a leftist is that I think a significantly greater degree of equality is a requirement for liberty to be possible). Civic virtue and morality I also think are very important - but I feel my definition of both differ significantly from the conservative definition.
importance of family from my perspective is in conflict with individual liberty, especially when coupled with the current incarnation of capitalism, because the wealth (& other capital) of the family you are born into is such a strong indicator of your personal success. national strength much the same, focus on competition between nations can negative for global cooperation which is important for the lowest rungs of global society, and raising them is a requirement for improving their individual liberty.
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On October 27 2017 00:50 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. Yes, but i can still see how this thread is now about 50% about stupid shit Trump says. Trump is very good at producing a constant stream of complete bullshit. Just because he is the US president doesn't mean that his verbal diarrhea needs to fill up this thread. I just don't think his utterances are that important. We already know that most of the stuff he says is not connected to any reality. I think we are giving Trumps words too much attention. They don't mean a lot to him, so why should they matter to us? We should take a look at Trumps actions, and maybe the words of people whose words actually have any value. Trump is the epitome of "talk is cheap".
it's an internet discussion; 95% of the thread is stupid shit someone said, and people trying to counter stupid shit someone said.
sustained, serious, thoughtful policy discussion simply isn't around to be displaced. I've tried at times, and people simply aren't interested in that kind of stuff for the most part.
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Tesla has used its solar panels and batteries to restore reliable electricity at San Juan's Hospital del Niño (Children's Hospital), in what company founder Elon Musk calls "the first of many solar+battery Tesla projects going live in Puerto Rico."
The project came about after Puerto Rico was hit by two devastating and powerful hurricanes in September, and Musk reached out about Tesla helping.
Musk's company announced its success in getting the hospital's power working again less than three weeks after Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello tweeted on Oct. 6, "Great initial conversation with @elonmusk tonight. Teams are now talking; exploring opportunities."
Tesla's image of the project's solar array, in a parking lot next to the hospital, has been liked more than 84,000 times since it was posted to Instagram Tuesday.
Earlier this month, Musk tweeted that some of his company's work is being rerouted so it could "increase battery production for Puerto Rico & other affected areas."
The hospital's new system allows it to generate all the energy it needs, according to El Nuevo Dia. The facility has 35 permanent residents with chronic conditions; it also offers services to some 3,000 young patients, the newspaper says. As for who is paying for the power system, the head of the hospital tells Nuevo Dia that for now, it's a donation — and that after the energy crisis is over, a deal could make it permanent.
Both Rossello and the tech company tweeted about the project this week, with Tesla saying in a post, "Grateful to support the recovery of Puerto Rico with @ricardorossello" — and Rossello stating, "A major contribution of @Tesla to the Hospital del Niño."
The news of restoring permanent power at the hospital comes as millions of people in Puerto Rico continue to rely on generators for electricity. As of Wednesday morning, the Electric Power Authority reported that its power service was at 25 percent.
The task of rebuilding Puerto Rico's power grid is expected to take months and to cost as much as $5 billion.
Last week, the territory's electric and power authority signed a $300 million contract with Whitefish, a small and relatively young Montana company, to restore the power grid. The deal has sparked scrutiny and skepticism, as NPR's Laurel Wamsley and Nicky Ouellet of Montana Public Radio reported.
Tesla isn't the only tech company trying to help Puerto Rico; Google's parent company, Alphabet, has deployed balloons from its Project Loon to the territory, to help parts of the island reconnect after much of its phone system went down. The portable network can help phone users with both messaging and some web browsing.
Source
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On October 27 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:50 Godwrath wrote:On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there. it kinda seems like this statement of yours is going against your overall thesis: "If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people"
Not really. Except if you think being reinforced in your opinion, or annoyed by the spam to be a change of mind worth a thing.
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On October 27 2017 01:05 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:On October 27 2017 00:50 Godwrath wrote:On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there. it kinda seems like this statement of yours is going against your overall thesis: "If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people" Not really. Except if you think being reinforced in your opinion, or annoyed by the spam to be a change of mind worth a thing.
or the mocking of an inane tweet could lead to an inane debate that leads to someone learning something.
You're making an unfounded assumption on the outcome of a tweet; it may be that way for most people, but as you said it may be different for the non us people with less exposure.
So I'd say it's definitely contradicting your thesis.
This is not a comment on the overall merits of your thesis.
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Whitefish Energy Holdings, a tiny Montana utility company financed by major donors to President Donald Trump, apologized late Wednesday for threatening to withdraw its workers from San Juan in response to remarks by the city’s mayor.
“On behalf of our employees, we would like to apologize for our comments earlier today,” the company tweeted at San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz. “Our goal is to continue to do all we can to help everyone in Puerto Rico in this time of need.”
Cruz on Tuesday called on the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority to immediately void its $300 million contract with Whitefish Energy Holdings.
“The contract should be voided right away and a proper process which is clear, transparent, legal, moral, and ethical should take place,” Cruz said. “It seems like what the Puerto Rican people are going to be paying for, or the American people are going to be paying for, is an intermediary that doesn’t know what is at stake here and that really has to subcontract everything.”
The firm said Cruz’s remarks were “misplaced” and “very disappointing and demoralizing.”
“What are they afraid we will find?” Cruz responded.
“We’ve got 44 linemen rebuilding power lines in your city & 40 more men just arrived,” Whitefish Energy Holdings replied to Cruz’s tweet. “Do you want us to send them back or keep working?”
Source
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On October 27 2017 01:12 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 01:05 Godwrath wrote:On October 27 2017 00:55 zlefin wrote:On October 27 2017 00:50 Godwrath wrote:On October 27 2017 00:27 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 00:19 Godwrath wrote:
@Plansix i doubt that he saying stupid things about how to call China's prime minister/president/king will be relevant anytime soon. I wasn’t aware that the goal of this thread was to change anyone’s mind. I wouldn’t have posted that specific quote, but I’m not that upset that it got posted. Trump says dumb shit every day, some of it makes it into this thread and we laugh at it. And sometimes its also important. The goal at the end of the day to debate and raise awaraness for certain US political topics. What everyone does with it, is to themselves. If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people. Trump silly tweets (the silly ones like that one) only reinforce either side opinions on the subject. Media is out there to attack Trump for silly stuff vs Trump tweets like a 5 year old. There is nothing to extract from there. it kinda seems like this statement of yours is going against your overall thesis: "If you really think even the most inane debate can't nuance somebody opinion on a subject, you are being disingenuous at best, specially when the thread has its own population of non US people" Not really. Except if you think being reinforced in your opinion, or annoyed by the spam to be a change of mind worth a thing. or the mocking of an inane tweet could lead to an inane debate that leads to someone learning something. You're making an unfounded assumption on the outcome of a tweet; it may be that way for most people, but as you said it may be different for the non us people with less exposure. So I'd say it's definitely contradicting your thesis. This is not a comment on the overall merits of your thesis.
My thesis is that the spam tweets bring nothing of value. That you are here regurgigating purely rethoric arguments brings nothing of value. That i am fed up with it and post about it, doesn't mean that the tweets themselves brought anything of value. And the volume of tweets and coverage that the media does about it means that there is very little the tweet itself will accomplish here.
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I support the idea that random Twitter quotes from Trump should be resigned to a "Trump says/does dumb/alarming thing". On the other hand a lot of the stuff he says suddenly becomes politically relevant, as he is the president of USA and as such has so much political power, as can be seen about his tweets on NPR, and it's very revealing of his mindset as when he tweets about war widows, and any such thread will become US pol 2.0.
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On October 27 2017 01:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Whitefish Energy Holdings, a tiny Montana utility company financed by major donors to President Donald Trump, apologized late Wednesday for threatening to withdraw its workers from San Juan in response to remarks by the city’s mayor.
“On behalf of our employees, we would like to apologize for our comments earlier today,” the company tweeted at San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz. “Our goal is to continue to do all we can to help everyone in Puerto Rico in this time of need.”
Cruz on Tuesday called on the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority to immediately void its $300 million contract with Whitefish Energy Holdings.
“The contract should be voided right away and a proper process which is clear, transparent, legal, moral, and ethical should take place,” Cruz said. “It seems like what the Puerto Rican people are going to be paying for, or the American people are going to be paying for, is an intermediary that doesn’t know what is at stake here and that really has to subcontract everything.”
The firm said Cruz’s remarks were “misplaced” and “very disappointing and demoralizing.”
“What are they afraid we will find?” Cruz responded.
“We’ve got 44 linemen rebuilding power lines in your city & 40 more men just arrived,” Whitefish Energy Holdings replied to Cruz’s tweet. “Do you want us to send them back or keep working?” Source
This and the previous post by you is very telling about Whitefish. And Cruz is a moron all on his own (There's no difference between PR people and Americans. Both are the same nationality). I agree with Cruz that the contract should be voided and PR should find someone else.
Hope Tesla is able to expand and provide power to more people as the days/weeks/months roll by. They might consider doing an energy roll so that they can get people the energy they need while expanding, transferring the power across the island as needed. Not sure how PR is currently wired, but it could be a possibility?
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On October 27 2017 01:32 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 01:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Whitefish Energy Holdings, a tiny Montana utility company financed by major donors to President Donald Trump, apologized late Wednesday for threatening to withdraw its workers from San Juan in response to remarks by the city’s mayor.
“On behalf of our employees, we would like to apologize for our comments earlier today,” the company tweeted at San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz. “Our goal is to continue to do all we can to help everyone in Puerto Rico in this time of need.”
Cruz on Tuesday called on the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority to immediately void its $300 million contract with Whitefish Energy Holdings.
“The contract should be voided right away and a proper process which is clear, transparent, legal, moral, and ethical should take place,” Cruz said. “It seems like what the Puerto Rican people are going to be paying for, or the American people are going to be paying for, is an intermediary that doesn’t know what is at stake here and that really has to subcontract everything.”
The firm said Cruz’s remarks were “misplaced” and “very disappointing and demoralizing.”
“What are they afraid we will find?” Cruz responded.
“We’ve got 44 linemen rebuilding power lines in your city & 40 more men just arrived,” Whitefish Energy Holdings replied to Cruz’s tweet. “Do you want us to send them back or keep working?” Source This and the previous post by you is very telling about Whitefish. And Cruz is a moron all on his own (There's no difference between PR people and Americans. Both are the same nationality). I agree with Cruz that the contract should be voided and PR should find someone else. Hope Tesla is able to expand and provide power to more people as the days/weeks/months roll by. They might consider doing an energy roll so that they can get people the energy they need while expanding, transferring the power across the island as needed. Not sure how PR is currently wired, but it could be a possibility?
This isn't Ted Cruz.
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On October 27 2017 01:30 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I support the idea that random Twitter quotes from Trump should be resigned to a "Trump says/does dumb/alarming thing". On the other hand a lot of the stuff he says suddenly becomes politically relevant, as he is the president of USA and as such has so much political power, as can be seen about his tweets on NPR, and it's very revealing of his mindset as when he tweets about war widows, and any such thread will become US pol 2.0.
When Trump makes a policy pronouncement on Twitter at least, it very much becomes an instruction for those below him. Tillerson has said that when Trump tweets, that's a new condition Tillerson has to work into his "strategy and tactics". That may have just been a nice way of saying that Trump's tweets disrupt his work, but it's pretty clear that Trump's tweets have consequences.
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We have to post the tweets man, we can't let ourselves get influenced by mainstream media! We have to get his idiocy straight from the source.
I mean I still find it highly amusing that he cries Fake News about everything negative said about him, as if that is the only reason people dislike his actions, while most people only need to read his own words on twitter to make up their opinion on his qualification for the job, resolve and trustworthyness
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On October 27 2017 00:46 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 00:39 kollin wrote:On October 25 2017 12:10 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 25 2017 10:57 xDaunt wrote:On October 25 2017 10:52 Plansix wrote:
Again, the opposition. Red team vs blue team. There is no goal of homogeneity, only division and opposition. Co-existence with the left is impossible for the modern conservative. Dominance is the only end game they accept. It's not about us vs them. It's about policy and principle. My relentless criticism of the GOP should make that obvious. You need to ditch this stupid theory of yours. Genuinely curious what principles you're talking about? The central tenets of conservativism can be broadly distilled down to 1) individual liberty, 2) importance of family, 3) national strength, 4) capitalism, and 5) civic virtue and morality. The GOP has talked a very big game on Nos 1 and 4, but have badly failed to deliver. I don't see how this distinctly differs from leftism (Clinton is not a leftist). One way in which it differs from leftism deals in number 3, the likes of which is utterly incoherent for anyone who supports anything conservative here in the States. "National strength" is a laughably hollow proxy for overfunded, contract employee ridden military with enough social services to keep old people happy and voting; the rest of pretty much everything conservative, no matter where on the spectrum, prioritizes enhancing the rights of states at the expense of an effectively strong federal government.
uh what about 4
in any case citing 1, 2, and 5 without irony or qualification deserves a pause
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EPT
