|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
United States42292 Posts
On September 26 2017 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 05:36 Mohdoo wrote:On September 26 2017 05:33 xDaunt wrote:And this statement from the Steelers QB, ladies and gentlemen, is why it is always a bad idea to politicize nationalism and patriotism in this country: I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday. The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting.
As a team, it was not a protest of the flag or the Anthem. I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest. For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice.
I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe. God bless those men and women. Source. The NFL knows its fucked. Trump won. He knows it, and I think he's daring democrats to join the NFL players in protesting the national anthem. Can you be more specific as to how any of this proves or shows anything? I don't see what you are seeing. We can all agree that protesting flag/anthem is symbolically unpatriotic. Trump is daring DNC to join in to appear unpatriotic.
No.
|
So does anyone on here believe a word Cassidy says? I have never heard more flagrant bullshit. Constant appeals to YOU, the PEOPLE, them in WASHINGTON, big INSURANCE. He runs all these sloppy terms with no reference to his own legislation. I get that rubes are easily fooled, but is anyone here falling for this?
EDIT
Minute 1 - INSURANCE and PHARMA are robbing the middle class
Minute 2 - Bernie is a SOCIALIST that will rob PHARMA
EDIT2
This debate is really bringing me down. Cassidy has a stack of slick lies and he never matches them back to legislation, CBO scores, or even aggregate insurance prices. The facts don't come up, just his accusations.
|
i'm getting a kick out of "bernie is the most honest man in the senate" thing.
i must say i'm pleasantly surprised. bernie has studied up a bit on healthcare, though i'll still have to mention my disagreement on his pharma and insurance = bad and medicare = solution points.
|
On September 26 2017 10:38 Wulfey_LA wrote:
So does anyone on here believe a word Cassidy says? I have never heard more flagrant bullshit. Constant appeals to YOU, the PEOPLE, them in WASHINGTON, big INSURANCE. He runs all these sloppy terms with no reference to his own legislation. I get that rubes are easily fooled, but is anyone here falling for this?
EDIT
Minute 1 - INSURANCE and PHARMA are robbing the middle class
Minute 2 - Bernie is a SOCIALIST that will rob PHARMA
I'm sure Igne would be pleasantly surprised to find out Bernie supported seizing the means of production, Bernie certainly seemed shocked.
|
|
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish?
|
On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish?
Well, it's showing where people stand. Are they more offended by the protests or the perpetuation of the American Lie. There are other avenues to change minds, but it's important to know which side of that one falls on.
That said, there's no way this hasn't been said, so pick how you want it, then read about why it didn't work.
|
On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish?
Care to rephrase that as a non-loaded question?
|
On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish?
Well, if posts like kollin's are any indicator, there's definitely some serious fappin' going on.
|
Canada11328 Posts
On September 26 2017 09:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:50 Falling wrote:I don't think people think being racist is the worst thing you can be. Pretty sure that's a white people perception thing. I mean being racist is bad, but there are worse things to be. Regardless of how terrible or innocuous the stigma is, if there is a category whose central tenants one is fundamentally opposed to, I think most people would like the option to be outside that category. It's simply definitional. Yeah, they want their cake and to eat it too. They want the definition to morph in such a way they can continue to advance white supremacist beliefs without having to own that's what they are doing by burying it in process, decorum, and patience. MLK was over it in his day, we're way past politely accepting it.
That's not really what I argued in the bold. I'm saying if people do not hold, and in fact are opposed to white supremacist beliefs, then they should not be in the very category they oppose. Definitions.
You can throw MLK around if you want, but as I said before, his critique was actually very precise in identifying two problems and furthermore identified the greater problem. What he didn't do is muddy the waters by conflating categories. It's actually rather insightful and very damning, but there is a much clearer set of solutions when we can see the problems for what they are:
1) Shallow understanding from people of goodwill
vs
2) absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.
Whereas, if you dump everyone into the ill will category, you've misunderstood the problem, and therefore good luck on a effective solution. Good solutions need to start with the truth.
|
On September 26 2017 10:53 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 09:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 26 2017 09:50 Falling wrote:I don't think people think being racist is the worst thing you can be. Pretty sure that's a white people perception thing. I mean being racist is bad, but there are worse things to be. Regardless of how terrible or innocuous the stigma is, if there is a category whose central tenants one is fundamentally opposed to, I think most people would like the option to be outside that category. It's simply definitional. Yeah, they want their cake and to eat it too. They want the definition to morph in such a way they can continue to advance white supremacist beliefs without having to own that's what they are doing by burying it in process, decorum, and patience. MLK was over it in his day, we're way past politely accepting it. That's not really what I argued in the bold. I'm saying if people do not hold, and in fact are opposed to white supremacist beliefs, then they should not be in the very category they oppose. Definitions. You can throw MLK around if you want, but as I said before, his critique was actually very precise in identifying two problems and furthermore identified the greater problem. What he didn't do is muddy the waters by conflating categories. It's actually rather insightful and very damning, but there is a much clearer set of solution s when we cans see the problems for what they are: 1) Shallow understanding from people of goodwill vs 2) absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Whereas, if you dump everyone into the ill will category, you've misunderstood the problem, and therefore good luck on a effective solution.
That sounds exactly like what you're arguing.
|
Canada11328 Posts
Yeah, they want their cake and to eat it too.... without having to own that's what they are doing
These parts seems to suggest that they are not actually opposed to the belief in white supremacy (that is, opposed to the belief that whites are the supreme race), so no. It is not.
|
On September 26 2017 10:57 Falling wrote:This part seems to suggest that they are not actually opposed to the belief in white supremacy (that is, opposed to the belief that whites are the supreme race), so no. It is not.
you don't have to think you think "whites are the supreme race" to support white supremacy.
So yes, it is.
|
Canada11328 Posts
*sigh*
How do you define white supremacy again.
Whites are in a supreme position in society?
|
On September 26 2017 11:02 Falling wrote:
*sigh*
How do you define white supremacy again.
Whites are in a supreme position in society?
Pretty sure GH's definition is that society has been built over the course of generations and years that white people are at the top, whites are the highest level, supreme. So if you're working to keep that system in place, whether you're actively working to keep whites at top, or you're just lazy and want things to stay the same. Either way you're continuing white supremacy. Regardless of whether you actually think white people are the best or not. Leaving things as is keeps whites on top, you're leaving all the moorings in place.
|
On September 26 2017 11:02 Falling wrote:
*sigh*
How do you define white supremacy again.
Whites are in a supreme position in society?
This sums it up:
By "white supremacy" I do not mean to allude only to the self-conscious racism of white supremacist hate groups. I refer instead to a political, economic and cultural system in which whites overwhelmingly control power and material resources, conscious and unconscious ideas of white superiority and entitlement are widespread, and relations of white dominance and non-white subordination are daily reenacted across a broad array of institutions and social settings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy#Academic_use_of_the_term
|
Canada11328 Posts
On September 26 2017 11:07 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 11:02 Falling wrote:
*sigh*
How do you define white supremacy again.
Whites are in a supreme position in society? Pretty sure GH's definition is that society has been built over the course of generations and years that white people are at the top, whites are the highest level, supreme. So if you're working to keep that system in place, whether you're actively working to keep whites at top, or you're just lazy and want things to stay the same. Either way you're continuing white supremacy. Regardless of whether you actually think white people are the best or not. Leaving things as is keeps whites on top, you're leaving all the moorings in place.
Sure. So we have better words than racist for that. Selfish? Lazy? Not sufficiently sympathetic to do anything? Apathetic? Greedy? Insincere? Self-indulgent?
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On September 26 2017 10:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish? Well, it's showing where people stand. Are they more offended by the protests or the perpetuation of the American Lie. There are other avenues to change minds, but it's important to know which side of that one falls on.
So like a purity test?
On September 26 2017 10:51 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish? Care to rephrase that as a non-loaded question?
No, not really.
On September 26 2017 10:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish? Well, if posts like kollin's are any indicator, there's definitely some serious fappin' going on.
I mean that there is fappin' goes without saying. The question is if there's anything more, and there's not a single answer that doesn't eventually loop back into accusing anyone and everyone who disagrees of being racist while not being very clear about what it is to disagree with.
|
On September 26 2017 11:16 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 10:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 26 2017 10:47 LegalLord wrote:
What still escapes me: how does crying racist at everything that moves help lift that evil spectre of discrimination? Do you plan to leverage it for results, or do you plan on a discomfort fetish? Well, it's showing where people stand. Are they more offended by the protests or the perpetuation of the American Lie. There are other avenues to change minds, but it's important to know which side of that one falls on. So like a purity test?
no. more like a sonar ping.
On September 26 2017 11:10 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 11:07 OuchyDathurts wrote:On September 26 2017 11:02 Falling wrote:
*sigh*
How do you define white supremacy again.
Whites are in a supreme position in society? Pretty sure GH's definition is that society has been built over the course of generations and years that white people are at the top, whites are the highest level, supreme. So if you're working to keep that system in place, whether you're actively working to keep whites at top, or you're just lazy and want things to stay the same. Either way you're continuing white supremacy. Regardless of whether you actually think white people are the best or not. Leaving things as is keeps whites on top, you're leaving all the moorings in place. Sure. So we have better words than racist for that. Selfish? Lazy? Not sufficiently sympathetic to do anything? Apathetic? Greedy? Insincere? Self-indulgent?
You're free to engage with the definition I gave you.
|
See, if you adopt that definition of "white supremacy," then you might as well just get back on the boat and go back to Africa. There's no room for hope. You're just a mirror image of the Alt Right, recognizing as they do that racial strife is unavoidable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
