EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 8804
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14187 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
In terms of sheer insanity though, nothing baffles me more than the juvenile jeering and goading the Right will do, because they think there's nothing more to life than making their "enemy" angry. Like somehow, if they even so much as have a conversation with a liberal, then they've already lost. I just don't get it. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On September 23 2017 10:17 LegalLord wrote: To be fair, pissing off liberals is a fun and worthy pastime so I can sympathize with that goal. Too bad the entire Republican party was clearly organized around this goal and not much else. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On September 23 2017 12:42 mikedebo wrote: Too bad the entire Republican party was clearly organized around this goal and not much else. Well, it's commendable nonetheless. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
Even a dumpster fire is good for the heat, if not for the smell. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 23 2017 11:20 NewSunshine wrote: Oh I'm not about to insinuate the left is without its problems. Just because they might have the "better" position, and the left does in many cases, they can go too far. They often do. A major problem they deal with is overzealous young people among their ranks, getting carried away on issues like civil rights, and they resort to violence and disorder, which deserves the condemnation it receives and then some. They also like to assume that people will agree with them, because they have the more accepting/empowering position, or whatever, and can be condescending about it. People aren't without faults, and partisans are still people. It just takes on a different flavor. In terms of sheer insanity though, nothing baffles me more than the juvenile jeering and goading the Right will do, because they think there's nothing more to life than making their "enemy" angry. Like somehow, if they even so much as have a conversation with a liberal, then they've already lost. I just don't get it. I don't know if this thread is the best representation of liberals wanting a conversation. If you repeat the same attack and you respond persistently, you're dragging people into 12 page arguments. If you don't yield to assertions of pure opinion, it's because you view the issue as of titanic importance. If you don't answer disingenuous questions, you're deflecting. In terms of sheer insanity, it's baffling how much you have to call people white supremacists and neonazis and demand disavowals, not noticing how demeaning and insulting it is to make such presumptions. If you want examples of juvenile jeering and goading, you better look in the mirror first. You show firsthand, NewSunshine, your inability to have conversation. On September 14 2017 01:36 NewSunshine wrote: Oh the irony. User was warned for this post Clearly, the writer is seeking deeper conversation with xDaunt on MLK. On September 19 2017 12:13 NewSunshine wrote: I thought the idea was pretty obvious. Dangles loves trying to drag people down to his level. More conversation. Clearly this insult is aimed at provoking substantial discussion. Not the "juvenile jeering and goading" that he accuses the Right of doing. You're going to need to accept more responsibility at creating the phenomenon and sustaining the phenomenon. It doesn't take too many departures from seeking conversation to show that you translate frustrations into "My opponent made an absurd argument from a faulty pretense. I've just now shown it with my three posts of ridicule and saying he doesn't condemn Nazis as much as I'd like." | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On September 23 2017 12:52 Danglars wrote: I don't know if this thread is the best representation of liberals wanting a conversation. If you repeat the same attack and you respond persistently, you're dragging people into 12 page arguments. If you don't yield to assertions of pure opinion, it's because you view the issue as of titanic importance. If you don't answer disingenuous questions, you're deflecting. In terms of sheer insanity, it's baffling how much you have to call people white supremacists and neonazis and demand disavowals, not noticing how demeaning and insulting it is to make such presumptions. Well, as you've demonstrated, you clearly have no problem digging into someone's post history, so honestly it's surprising that you think I ever accused anyone of being a neo-nazi or white supremacist. Baffling, even. This is a politics thread, discussions get hot sometimes, I'll take my warnings on the chin and try to improve my behavior. But you know what, if someone asks me a question, I'll answer it. If someone thinks my position on something is ambiguous, I'll clarify. I've said racist things and I've thought them too, often because I just didn't know better. But I challenge myself, and I let people challenge me. And if I really fuck something up, I'll admit it. When's the last time you've done any of the above? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9064 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:06 Plansix wrote: For as much as he complains about being called a white supremacists and neonazi, I don't remember anyone ever calling Danglars that. But he is good at turning any discussion about tone and the general discourse to how mean everyone is to him. I've called him that or insinuated it at the very least. He's given me no reason to believe otherwise most of the time and his posts reek of it. I'll still challenge him and try to be in good faith as much as possible, but sometimes you have to show them that their tactics don't work. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9064 Posts
President Donald Trump criticized NFL players who lodge protests during the pregame national anthem, saying Friday night that he wished those players would be released and encouraging fans who are offended to walk out of stadiums. Speaking at a political rally in Huntsville, Alabama, Trump said: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out. He's fired! He's fired!" Source Exemplary leadership from the office of the president. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Massive flag crosses the field, players are ordered to stand. 10 ads for the US army are run Three ads supporting local police One ad for strong communities through clean, Christian living Keep politics out of sports | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:23 Plansix wrote: They should keep politics out of then NFL and players shouldn't be political. Massive flag crosses the field, players are ordered to stand. 10 ads for the US army are run Three ads supporting local police One ad for strong communities through clean, Christian living Keep politics out of sports You would think since Trump's supporters are the type to make fun of someone for being offended by something, that this would be no big deal. After all, if you really believe in what you stand for, someone protesting it would be of no moment to you. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:25 NewSunshine wrote: You would think since Trump's supporters are the type to make fun of someone for being offended by something, that this would be no big deal. After all, if you really believe in what you stand for, someone protesting it would be of no moment to you. My brother is in the army, he gets offended when people do not stand for the pledge. I remind him that North Korea forces people to stand and salute. | ||
KwarK
United States44245 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:16 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Source Exemplary leadership from the office of the president. I feel like there was some kind of recent situation where someone had a public display of political beliefs and got fired only for conservatives to insist that this was the worst kind of discrimination. Surely they will denounce Trump for saying this. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:03 NewSunshine wrote: Well, as you've demonstrated, you clearly have no problem digging into someone's post history, so honestly it's surprising that you think I ever accused anyone of being a neo-nazi or white supremacist. This is a politics thread, discussions get hot sometimes, I'll take my warnings on the chin and try to improve my behavior. But you know what, if someone asks me a question, I'll answer it. If someone thinks my position on something is ambiguous, I'll clarify. I've said racist things and I've thought them too, often because I just didn't know better. But I challenge myself, and I let people challenge me. And if I really fuck something up, I'll admit it. When's the last time you've done any of the above? You offered an aside about how you thought the right was guilty of these dastardly deeds that undermined conversations. I recalled that your behavior was generally of the type that defeated rather than promoted these conversations. Hence, the quotes. Secondly, you're the one that can't realize how disturbing it is to actually claim I need to repeatedly disavow actual neonazis because I'm persistent and unyielding on another subject. I thought once was enough, but apparently you can't speak up for what you believe in if somebody else is sitting there with an outrage meter and offering these absurd questions comparing your relative outrage and time spent per topic. I tried to call your attention with it asking you to condemn Antifa. Now, since you, NewSunshine, refused to deny Antifa violence in a timely manner, I get to allege you're in favor of their violence. If you deny it now, I can say you didn't do so clearly and allege you think the conversation of the Right is worse than Antifa violence. Maybe you can see how frustrating it is dealing with that, or maybe you can't. You didn't respond to my post on it, and maybe you also didn't catch the actual responses to questions that led to nothing but more questions. This thread moves quickly and it's easy to miss where it was answered and nobody acknowledged it. Or when the question was asked in such bad faith only a hyperpartisan would think it deserves an answer. I don't know which is true of you yet, but if you keep interacting and not jettisoning on out of here and claiming it's the other guy that doesn't want the conversation and makes absurd arguments, maybe I'll learn that about you. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:29 Danglars wrote: You offered an aside about how you thought the right was guilty of these dastardly deeds that undermined conversations. I recalled that your behavior was generally of the type that defeated rather than promoted these conversations. Hence, the quotes. Secondly, you're the one that can't realize how disturbing it is to actually claim I need to repeatedly disavow actual neonazis because I'm persistent and unyielding on another subject. I thought once was enough, but apparently you can't speak up for what you believe in if somebody else is sitting their with an outrage meter and offering these absurd questions. I tried to call your attention with it asking you to condemn Antifa. Now, since you, NewSunshine, refused to deny Antifa violence in a timely manner, I get to allege you're in favor of their violence. If you deny it now, I can say you didn't do so clearly and allege you think the conversation of the Right is worse than Antifa violence. Maybe you can see how frustrating it is dealing with that, or maybe you can't. You didn't respond to my post on it, and maybe you also didn't catch the actual responses to questions that led to nothing but more questions. This thread moves quickly and it's easy to miss where it was answered and nobody acknowledged it. Or when the question was asked in such bad faith only a hyperpartisan would think it deserves an answer. I don't know which is true of you yet, but if you keep interacting and not jettisoning on out of here and claiming it's the other guy that doesn't want the conversation and makes absurd arguments, maybe I'll learn that about you. If someone said to me "Hey NewSunshine, you've been oddly quiet about the violent acts committed by Antifa, but seem perfectly willing to talk about everything else that comes up, what's the deal?" Now, not that this has happened, but if I did something like that without realizing, and someone makes me aware of it, I'd say "you know what, you're right, let me make my position clear. I don't condone violence from anybody, regardless of what your political affiliation is. Civil rights aren't expanded by uncivil acts. I disagree with the use of violence by Antifa." It's clean. It's simple. Everyone knows what I think on the issue of the violent left. You'd only need to ask me the question once. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:28 KwarK wrote: I feel like there was some kind of recent situation where someone had a public display of political beliefs and got fired only for conservatives to insist that this was the worst kind of discrimination. Surely they will denounce Trump for saying this. Trump is also probably still salty that the NFL stopped him from buying a team. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 23 2017 13:34 NewSunshine wrote: If someone said to me "Hey NewSunshine, you've been oddly quiet about the violent acts committed by Antifa, but seem perfectly willing to talk about everything else that comes up, what's the deal?" Now, not that this has happened, but if I did something like that without realizing, and someone makes me aware of it, I'd say "you know what, you're right, let me make my position clear. I don't condone violence from anybody, regardless of what your political affiliation is. Civil rights aren't expanded by uncivil acts. I disagree with the use of violence by Antifa." It's clean. It's simple. Everyone knows what I think on the issue of the violent left. You'd only need to ask me the question once. You're being very reasonable tonight, many props. I answered those kind of questions before, but they keep on coming up. Eventually, even you would conclude they've ceased being asked in good faith because it's very disingenuous to presume someone actually supports neonazi ideology, no matter how much you believe in free speech rights for all citizens. Hell, I think you won't even consider this because we don't have the quality and quantity of shitposters here on the right to actually challenge your belief that you can do it cleanly and simply once and be done with it. Like I said in the unquoted part of your first response, you already demonstrated that you confuse persistence with importance of issue. I would suggest if you want to know my positions, you ask my positions. I respond to people's arguments with my own. If you're not willing to ask simple questions in good faith, you're going to get out of me the same effort you put in. Lately, that's been a handful of one-liners and jeers in third person. I respect that you're now saying you'll improve. Sometimes, if the person has been trolling heavily recently, I just won't respond for a few. That's fine for you to do as well. If they never come around, your choice was very justified. If they do, you have your success. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Reflecting the actual political climate, this thread tends to have an endless supply of uncharitable and aggressive assertion that anyone who doesn't agree is the one who is truly evil. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
People also continue to ask you these questions because of another thing you mentioned. Sometimes the thread moves very quickly, and they miss the one post you took to address it. This would be fine, mea culpa, et cetera, but you're usually at the center of these fast-moving discussions, and you waste no time going back to your usual slippery ways. You're the one who makes it get lost. Genuinely asking someone a question on their position, getting an answer, and moving on, is one thing. Asking a question about someone's thoughts on Antifa, in the middle of a discussion about neo-nazis, takes on an entirely different context. If I get you to do anything from our discussion here, I want you to understand that. A single instance of "I shouldn't have to say I'm not a white supremacist, or that I condemn Nazis" is acceptable, you shouldn't have to do that in a vacuum. But when you say things that make people wonder, and repeatedly refuse to just say it so people can move on, that's what people have a problem with. | ||
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