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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8774

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 19 2017 15:36 GMT
#175461
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10167 Posts
September 19 2017 15:39 GMT
#175462
On September 19 2017 23:33 Danglars wrote:
Secondly, this is the problem with fake news by omission. If politically motivated government sources leak something deliberately misleading, and journalists don't follow up, there's two culpable parties on the way to publication.

...but the best the thread can do is allege Saint Obama's justice department didn't mean anything by it!!! If the Trump administration had done this to Mook, the conflict of interest and implications would suddenly be crystal clear. But you all are so blinded by the specter of Trump that you can't see and admit to the lies (with journalistic incompetence if you presume good motives to journalists) or to how this damages media credibility.

I'll watch to see if any of the regular voices can have a clear nonpartisan sentence or two of admitting either. I do want to know if the admission street is still one-way.
Misleading ? What should the public had been lead to believe instead
? Trump's tweet about the Trump's tower being wiretapped?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-19 16:03:19
September 19 2017 16:00 GMT
#175463
WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton criticized Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, telling a packed theater Monday night in the nation’s capital that the U.S. media got “played” and joking that she ran against both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin last year.

Clinton, who is on a media tour promoting her new book, “What Happened,” was introduced at the event to thunderous applause as having won “3 million more votes than the Republican nominee.” Trump now lives in the White House, but Washington remains a Democratic stronghold in which more than 90 percent of the district voted for Clinton last year.

Onstage, Clinton recapped the “infamous” day last October when the Obama administration announced Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, the Washington Post broke the “Access Hollywood” tape story, and Clinton’s campaign chairman’s emails began getting released on WikiLeaks. The U.S. intelligence community later accused the Kremlin of feeding the emails to WikiLeaks.

“John Podesta’s emails were stolen — I hate the word ‘hacked’; they were stolen,” Clinton said of her former campaign chairman. She sarcastically called it “such an amazing coincidence” that WikiLeaks dumped his emails within an hour of the Washington Post publishing the tape of Trump boasting about groping women. And she insisted that people close to Trump “certainly” knew about Russia’s interference.

She said that the Russians and their allies — “whoever they turn out to be” — sent the press on a “wild goose chase” over Podesta’s emails because releasing them “created the illusion of transparency.”

“If you think you’re getting something from behind the screen maybe it’s more legitimate even though you’re being played by a bunch of Russians,” Clinton said of the media’s attitude. (Clinton has also recently said that Trump is being “played” by Putin, Russia’s president.)

www.yahoo.com

She really needs to know when to back off lest she reveal the Russia matter for the scapegoat-seeking farce that it is.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44373 Posts
September 19 2017 16:04 GMT
#175464
On September 20 2017 01:00 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton criticized Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, telling a packed theater Monday night in the nation’s capital that the U.S. media got “played” and joking that she ran against both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin last year.

Clinton, who is on a media tour promoting her new book, “What Happened,” was introduced at the event to thunderous applause as having won “3 million more votes than the Republican nominee.” Trump now lives in the White House, but Washington remains a Democratic stronghold in which more than 90 percent of the district voted for Clinton last year.

Onstage, Clinton recapped the “infamous” day last October when the Obama administration announced Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, the Washington Post broke the “Access Hollywood” tape story, and Clinton’s campaign chairman’s emails began getting released on WikiLeaks. The U.S. intelligence community later accused the Kremlin of feeding the emails to WikiLeaks.

“John Podesta’s emails were stolen — I hate the word ‘hacked’; they were stolen,” Clinton said of her former campaign chairman. She sarcastically called it “such an amazing coincidence” that WikiLeaks dumped his emails within an hour of the Washington Post publishing the tape of Trump boasting about groping women. And she insisted that people close to Trump “certainly” knew about Russia’s interference.

She said that the Russians and their allies — “whoever they turn out to be” — sent the press on a “wild goose chase” over Podesta’s emails because releasing them “created the illusion of transparency.”

“If you think you’re getting something from behind the screen maybe it’s more legitimate even though you’re being played by a bunch of Russians,” Clinton said of the media’s attitude. (Clinton has also recently said that Trump is being “played” by Putin, Russia’s president.)

www.yahoo.com

She really needs to know when to back off lest she reveal the Russia matter for the scapegoat-seeking farce that it is.

nothing she said was untrue
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22661 Posts
September 19 2017 16:17 GMT
#175465
On September 20 2017 01:00 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton criticized Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, telling a packed theater Monday night in the nation’s capital that the U.S. media got “played” and joking that she ran against both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin last year.

Clinton, who is on a media tour promoting her new book, “What Happened,” was introduced at the event to thunderous applause as having won “3 million more votes than the Republican nominee.” Trump now lives in the White House, but Washington remains a Democratic stronghold in which more than 90 percent of the district voted for Clinton last year.

Onstage, Clinton recapped the “infamous” day last October when the Obama administration announced Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, the Washington Post broke the “Access Hollywood” tape story, and Clinton’s campaign chairman’s emails began getting released on WikiLeaks. The U.S. intelligence community later accused the Kremlin of feeding the emails to WikiLeaks.

“John Podesta’s emails were stolen — I hate the word ‘hacked’; they were stolen,” Clinton said of her former campaign chairman. She sarcastically called it “such an amazing coincidence” that WikiLeaks dumped his emails within an hour of the Washington Post publishing the tape of Trump boasting about groping women. And she insisted that people close to Trump “certainly” knew about Russia’s interference.

She said that the Russians and their allies — “whoever they turn out to be” — sent the press on a “wild goose chase” over Podesta’s emails because releasing them “created the illusion of transparency.”

“If you think you’re getting something from behind the screen maybe it’s more legitimate even though you’re being played by a bunch of Russians,” Clinton said of the media’s attitude. (Clinton has also recently said that Trump is being “played” by Putin, Russia’s president.)

www.yahoo.com

She really needs to know when to back off lest she reveal the Russia matter for the scapegoat-seeking farce that it is.

Ah yes, the Hillary mind control technology that allowed her to get Trump to work with so many foreign Russian agents and then lie about it. A really amazing piece of technology.

its not like investigators found actual written proof of Russian contacts meeting with Trumps staff in Trump tower to discuss Russia helping him get elected.

How fortunate that we have a Russian, living in the US, pretending to be British to help us see to the core of this matter
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 19 2017 16:29 GMT
#175466
ONE OF THE most controversial proposals put forward by Sen. Bernie Sanders during the 2016 presidential campaign was a pledge to make tuition free at public colleges and universities. Critics from both parties howled that the pie-in-the-sky idea would bankrupt the country. Where, after all, would the money come from?

Those concerns were brushed aside Monday night, as the Senate overwhelmingly approved an $80 billion annual increase in military spending, enough to have fully satisfied Sanders’s campaign promise. Instead, the Senate handed President Donald Trump far more than the $54 billion he asked for. The lavish spending package gives Trump a major legislative victory, allowing him to boast about fulfilling his promise of a “great rebuilding of the armed services.”

The bill would set the U.S.’s annual military budget at around $700 billion, putting it within range of matching the spending level at the height of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

To put that in further perspective: If the package becomes law, U.S. military spending would exceed the total spending of its next 10 rivals put together, going off of 2016 military spending estimates from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Put another way, with a $700 billion military budget, the U.S. would be spending more than three times as much as China on its military, and 10 times as much as Russia. According to SIPRI, the U.S. already accounts for more than a third of all military spending.

Or with $80 billion a year, you could make public colleges and universities in the U.S. tuition-free. In fact, Sanders’s proposal was only estimated to cost the federal government $47 billion per year.

If the additional military spending over the next 10 years instead went to pay off student debt, it could come close to wiping it out entirely.

But proposals like that are written off as nonstarters, even by Democrats. In her new book, Hillary Clinton compares Sanders’s idea to him nonsensically saying “America should get a pony.” And while concerns about the cost of ponies abound, few Democrats are raising similar concerns about military spending, even when it is meant for a commander-in-chief they consider reckless and unstable.

The Senate voted 89-8, with three senators not voting, to approve the military money. Spendthrift Sanders joined only four other Democratic senators to vote against the bill: Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, and Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden from Oregon. Republicans Bob Corker of Tennessee, Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Mike Lee of Utah also voted against it.

When Trump submitted a budget proposal in March, which cut social spending dramatically to fund a $54 billion increase in defense spending, Democrats criticized it as a nonstarter. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said he “emphatically opposed” the blueprint, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the budget “throws billions of dollars at defense while ransacking” health and education funding.

Before the bill becomes law, it is has to be reconciled with the version the House already passed, which contains a similar $77 billion spending increase. It is likely to become law by the end of the year.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12026 Posts
September 19 2017 16:33 GMT
#175467
On September 20 2017 01:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
ONE OF THE most controversial proposals put forward by Sen. Bernie Sanders during the 2016 presidential campaign was a pledge to make tuition free at public colleges and universities. Critics from both parties howled that the pie-in-the-sky idea would bankrupt the country. Where, after all, would the money come from?

Those concerns were brushed aside Monday night, as the Senate overwhelmingly approved an $80 billion annual increase in military spending, enough to have fully satisfied Sanders’s campaign promise. Instead, the Senate handed President Donald Trump far more than the $54 billion he asked for. The lavish spending package gives Trump a major legislative victory, allowing him to boast about fulfilling his promise of a “great rebuilding of the armed services.”

The bill would set the U.S.’s annual military budget at around $700 billion, putting it within range of matching the spending level at the height of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

To put that in further perspective: If the package becomes law, U.S. military spending would exceed the total spending of its next 10 rivals put together, going off of 2016 military spending estimates from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Put another way, with a $700 billion military budget, the U.S. would be spending more than three times as much as China on its military, and 10 times as much as Russia. According to SIPRI, the U.S. already accounts for more than a third of all military spending.

Or with $80 billion a year, you could make public colleges and universities in the U.S. tuition-free. In fact, Sanders’s proposal was only estimated to cost the federal government $47 billion per year.

If the additional military spending over the next 10 years instead went to pay off student debt, it could come close to wiping it out entirely.

But proposals like that are written off as nonstarters, even by Democrats. In her new book, Hillary Clinton compares Sanders’s idea to him nonsensically saying “America should get a pony.” And while concerns about the cost of ponies abound, few Democrats are raising similar concerns about military spending, even when it is meant for a commander-in-chief they consider reckless and unstable.

The Senate voted 89-8, with three senators not voting, to approve the military money. Spendthrift Sanders joined only four other Democratic senators to vote against the bill: Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, and Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden from Oregon. Republicans Bob Corker of Tennessee, Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Mike Lee of Utah also voted against it.

When Trump submitted a budget proposal in March, which cut social spending dramatically to fund a $54 billion increase in defense spending, Democrats criticized it as a nonstarter. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said he “emphatically opposed” the blueprint, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the budget “throws billions of dollars at defense while ransacking” health and education funding.

Before the bill becomes law, it is has to be reconciled with the version the House already passed, which contains a similar $77 billion spending increase. It is likely to become law by the end of the year.


Source


It is kind of weird how there always seems to be enough money for the military to blow up other people, but never enought for anything social that would actually help people. Spending any money on science or education or social security is always pennypinched, but the military gets more than they ask for.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 19 2017 16:34 GMT
#175468
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14211 Posts
September 19 2017 16:36 GMT
#175469
On September 19 2017 23:06 Aquanim wrote:
I do wish people (and there's more than one offender here) would stop making arguments about how X is bad, then when it is demonstrated that X wasn't bad at all they retreat to "oh but X has bad optics and that's what's important".

What X looks like is important - but by making the erroneous statement first, and then pretending that discussing the optics is in any way the same as discussing the reality, you confound discussion on both issues.

This is the Us politics thread. Optics matter more then reality in politics especially in US politics. I don't understand what you would want otherwise.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
September 19 2017 16:38 GMT
#175470
On September 20 2017 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2017 01:00 LegalLord wrote:
WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton criticized Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, telling a packed theater Monday night in the nation’s capital that the U.S. media got “played” and joking that she ran against both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin last year.

Clinton, who is on a media tour promoting her new book, “What Happened,” was introduced at the event to thunderous applause as having won “3 million more votes than the Republican nominee.” Trump now lives in the White House, but Washington remains a Democratic stronghold in which more than 90 percent of the district voted for Clinton last year.

Onstage, Clinton recapped the “infamous” day last October when the Obama administration announced Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, the Washington Post broke the “Access Hollywood” tape story, and Clinton’s campaign chairman’s emails began getting released on WikiLeaks. The U.S. intelligence community later accused the Kremlin of feeding the emails to WikiLeaks.

“John Podesta’s emails were stolen — I hate the word ‘hacked’; they were stolen,” Clinton said of her former campaign chairman. She sarcastically called it “such an amazing coincidence” that WikiLeaks dumped his emails within an hour of the Washington Post publishing the tape of Trump boasting about groping women. And she insisted that people close to Trump “certainly” knew about Russia’s interference.

She said that the Russians and their allies — “whoever they turn out to be” — sent the press on a “wild goose chase” over Podesta’s emails because releasing them “created the illusion of transparency.”

“If you think you’re getting something from behind the screen maybe it’s more legitimate even though you’re being played by a bunch of Russians,” Clinton said of the media’s attitude. (Clinton has also recently said that Trump is being “played” by Putin, Russia’s president.)

www.yahoo.com

She really needs to know when to back off lest she reveal the Russia matter for the scapegoat-seeking farce that it is.

Ah yes, the Hillary mind control technology that allowed her to get Trump to work with so many foreign Russian agents and then lie about it. A really amazing piece of technology.

its not like investigators found actual written proof of Russian contacts meeting with Trumps staff in Trump tower to discuss Russia helping him get elected.

How fortunate that we have a Russian, living in the US, pretending to be British to help us see to the core of this matter

You really ought to cut down on the hyperbolic strawmen in pretty much all of your posts in recent history. It gets sort of stale after the 100th time you do it.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom10011 Posts
September 19 2017 16:39 GMT
#175471
On September 20 2017 01:33 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2017 01:29 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
ONE OF THE most controversial proposals put forward by Sen. Bernie Sanders during the 2016 presidential campaign was a pledge to make tuition free at public colleges and universities. Critics from both parties howled that the pie-in-the-sky idea would bankrupt the country. Where, after all, would the money come from?

Those concerns were brushed aside Monday night, as the Senate overwhelmingly approved an $80 billion annual increase in military spending, enough to have fully satisfied Sanders’s campaign promise. Instead, the Senate handed President Donald Trump far more than the $54 billion he asked for. The lavish spending package gives Trump a major legislative victory, allowing him to boast about fulfilling his promise of a “great rebuilding of the armed services.”

The bill would set the U.S.’s annual military budget at around $700 billion, putting it within range of matching the spending level at the height of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

To put that in further perspective: If the package becomes law, U.S. military spending would exceed the total spending of its next 10 rivals put together, going off of 2016 military spending estimates from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Put another way, with a $700 billion military budget, the U.S. would be spending more than three times as much as China on its military, and 10 times as much as Russia. According to SIPRI, the U.S. already accounts for more than a third of all military spending.

Or with $80 billion a year, you could make public colleges and universities in the U.S. tuition-free. In fact, Sanders’s proposal was only estimated to cost the federal government $47 billion per year.

If the additional military spending over the next 10 years instead went to pay off student debt, it could come close to wiping it out entirely.

But proposals like that are written off as nonstarters, even by Democrats. In her new book, Hillary Clinton compares Sanders’s idea to him nonsensically saying “America should get a pony.” And while concerns about the cost of ponies abound, few Democrats are raising similar concerns about military spending, even when it is meant for a commander-in-chief they consider reckless and unstable.

The Senate voted 89-8, with three senators not voting, to approve the military money. Spendthrift Sanders joined only four other Democratic senators to vote against the bill: Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, and Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden from Oregon. Republicans Bob Corker of Tennessee, Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Mike Lee of Utah also voted against it.

When Trump submitted a budget proposal in March, which cut social spending dramatically to fund a $54 billion increase in defense spending, Democrats criticized it as a nonstarter. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said he “emphatically opposed” the blueprint, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the budget “throws billions of dollars at defense while ransacking” health and education funding.

Before the bill becomes law, it is has to be reconciled with the version the House already passed, which contains a similar $77 billion spending increase. It is likely to become law by the end of the year.


Source


It is kind of weird how there always seems to be enough money for the military to blow up other people, but never enought for anything social that would actually help people. Spending any money on science or education or social security is always pennypinched, but the military gets more than they ask for.


The political benefits of education, science and social security are long term. This means the politicians who try and gain from them are long gone by the time you see the benefits. Otherwise education would be the number 1 most important thing to spend money on, but politics is about gaining political capital and spending on education might as well be throwing that money down the drain, politically speaking.
RIP Meatloaf <3
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-19 16:41:55
September 19 2017 16:41 GMT
#175472
so much utterly wasteful military spending; and so many americans end up voting in support of nonsense like that. such frustrating foolishness.
oh for a sound government that focused on well thought out plans. sadly too many voters are incapable of voting for such.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
September 19 2017 16:41 GMT
#175473
A lot of genuinely interesting and productive stuff that we have developed only saw light first as military developments. The military has never been shy about creating new and useful technologies when necessary. They still do, so at least that money does have something to show for the effort.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22661 Posts
September 19 2017 16:42 GMT
#175474
On September 20 2017 01:38 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2017 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 20 2017 01:00 LegalLord wrote:
WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton criticized Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, telling a packed theater Monday night in the nation’s capital that the U.S. media got “played” and joking that she ran against both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin last year.

Clinton, who is on a media tour promoting her new book, “What Happened,” was introduced at the event to thunderous applause as having won “3 million more votes than the Republican nominee.” Trump now lives in the White House, but Washington remains a Democratic stronghold in which more than 90 percent of the district voted for Clinton last year.

Onstage, Clinton recapped the “infamous” day last October when the Obama administration announced Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, the Washington Post broke the “Access Hollywood” tape story, and Clinton’s campaign chairman’s emails began getting released on WikiLeaks. The U.S. intelligence community later accused the Kremlin of feeding the emails to WikiLeaks.

“John Podesta’s emails were stolen — I hate the word ‘hacked’; they were stolen,” Clinton said of her former campaign chairman. She sarcastically called it “such an amazing coincidence” that WikiLeaks dumped his emails within an hour of the Washington Post publishing the tape of Trump boasting about groping women. And she insisted that people close to Trump “certainly” knew about Russia’s interference.

She said that the Russians and their allies — “whoever they turn out to be” — sent the press on a “wild goose chase” over Podesta’s emails because releasing them “created the illusion of transparency.”

“If you think you’re getting something from behind the screen maybe it’s more legitimate even though you’re being played by a bunch of Russians,” Clinton said of the media’s attitude. (Clinton has also recently said that Trump is being “played” by Putin, Russia’s president.)

www.yahoo.com

She really needs to know when to back off lest she reveal the Russia matter for the scapegoat-seeking farce that it is.

Ah yes, the Hillary mind control technology that allowed her to get Trump to work with so many foreign Russian agents and then lie about it. A really amazing piece of technology.

its not like investigators found actual written proof of Russian contacts meeting with Trumps staff in Trump tower to discuss Russia helping him get elected.

How fortunate that we have a Russian, living in the US, pretending to be British to help us see to the core of this matter

You really ought to cut down on the hyperbolic strawmen in pretty much all of your posts in recent history. It gets sort of stale after the 100th time you do it.

I will happily respond seriously when you start posting serious. Rather then trying to claim Hillary invented Trump's Russian collusion.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 19 2017 16:42 GMT
#175475
The military funds a lot of materials research, so bright side to everything lol :/
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
September 19 2017 16:46 GMT
#175476
On September 20 2017 01:36 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2017 23:06 Aquanim wrote:
I do wish people (and there's more than one offender here) would stop making arguments about how X is bad, then when it is demonstrated that X wasn't bad at all they retreat to "oh but X has bad optics and that's what's important".

What X looks like is important - but by making the erroneous statement first, and then pretending that discussing the optics is in any way the same as discussing the reality, you confound discussion on both issues.

This is the Us politics thread. Optics matter more then reality in politics especially in US politics. I don't understand what you would want otherwise.

I didn't say "don't discuss the optics". I said "don't discuss the reality and then claim later you were discussing the optics".
On September 19 2017 15:28 Sermokala wrote:...
Does it really matter why though? If Obama knew that Trumps campaign was being wiretapped indirectly thats a huge conflict of interest.
...

This is clearly not discussing the optics.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9069 Posts
September 19 2017 16:46 GMT
#175477
Stanislav Petrov was a lieutenant colonel in the Soviet Union's Air Defense Forces, and his job was to monitor his country's satellite system, which was looking for any possible nuclear weapons launches by the United States.

He was on the overnight shift in the early morning hours of Sept. 26, 1983, when the computers sounded an alarm, indicating that the U.S. had launched five nuclear-armed intercontinental ballistic missiles.

"The siren howled, but I just sat there for a few seconds, staring at the big, back-lit, red screen with the word 'launch' on it," Petrov told the BBC in 2013.

It was already a moment of extreme tension in the Cold War. On Sept. 1 of that year, the Soviet Union shot down a Korean Air Lines plane that had drifted into Soviet airspace, killing all 269 people on board, including a U.S. congressman. The episode led the U.S. and the Soviets to exchange warnings and threats.

Petrov had to act quickly. U.S. missiles could reach the Soviet Union in just over 20 minutes.

"There was no rule about how long we were allowed to think before we reported a strike," Petrov told the BBC. "But we knew that every second of procrastination took away valuable time, that the Soviet Union's military and political leadership needed to be informed without delay. All I had to do was to reach for the phone; to raise the direct line to our top commanders — but I couldn't move. I felt like I was sitting on a hot frying pan."

Source
Not sure if posted yesterday, but this is the guy.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-19 16:51:38
September 19 2017 16:50 GMT
#175478
On September 20 2017 01:41 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of genuinely interesting and productive stuff that we have developed only saw light first as military developments. The military has never been shy about creating new and useful technologies when necessary. They still do, so at least that money does have something to show for the effort.


Unfortunately, it still seems wasteful when incredible sums of money are spent inefficiently on things that are completely unnecessary or erroneously paid for in the military. Furthermore, the service members rarely see this money. It sure as hell isn't in our wages, It rarely turns into new benefits (I can't tell you how many times I've been told, "sorry, that benefit was cut recently, you can't get it anymore"), living conditions are routinely poor (I could tell you quite a few stories about the barracks that I just came from and the galleys I had to eat in), and the gear is substandard (during my recent training, my flak jacket didn't fit and my rifle couldn't fire more than a single round without jamming).
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 19 2017 16:55 GMT
#175479
On September 20 2017 01:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2017 01:41 LegalLord wrote:
A lot of genuinely interesting and productive stuff that we have developed only saw light first as military developments. The military has never been shy about creating new and useful technologies when necessary. They still do, so at least that money does have something to show for the effort.


Unfortunately, it still seems wasteful when incredible sums of money are spent inefficiently on things that are completely unnecessary or erroneously paid for in the military. Furthermore, the service members rarely see this money. It sure as hell isn't in our wages, It rarely turns into new benefits (I can't tell you how many times I've been told, "sorry, that benefit was cut recently, you can't get it anymore"), living conditions are routinely poor (I could tell you quite a few stories about the barracks that I just came from and the galleys I had to eat in), and the gear is substandard (during my recent training, my flak jacket didn't fit and my rifle couldn't fire more than a single round without jamming).


Is this really avoidable, though? As entity gets bigger --> waste gets bigger. Kind of like how big companies lose millions of dollars a year to accounting errors. Is there some nation that we know has an outstandingly efficient military while also being huge? I imagine not. I am sure a lot of work has been done to study "how do huge things not be wasteful?", but it does not seem to have been particularly successful yet.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14211 Posts
September 19 2017 16:55 GMT
#175480
On September 20 2017 01:46 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2017 01:36 Sermokala wrote:
On September 19 2017 23:06 Aquanim wrote:
I do wish people (and there's more than one offender here) would stop making arguments about how X is bad, then when it is demonstrated that X wasn't bad at all they retreat to "oh but X has bad optics and that's what's important".

What X looks like is important - but by making the erroneous statement first, and then pretending that discussing the optics is in any way the same as discussing the reality, you confound discussion on both issues.

This is the Us politics thread. Optics matter more then reality in politics especially in US politics. I don't understand what you would want otherwise.

I didn't say "don't discuss the optics". I said "don't discuss the reality and then claim later you were discussing the optics".
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2017 15:28 Sermokala wrote:...
Does it really matter why though? If Obama knew that Trumps campaign was being wiretapped indirectly thats a huge conflict of interest.
...

This is clearly not discussing the optics.

There is no clarity in abstract concepts like "optics" or "the reality of the station". There will always be a mix or blend of the topics when discussing the two even more so when discussing politics.

Half the shit that the threads been about the last hundred or more pages has been about the optics and reality of racism. No ones asking for delineation of the two.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
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