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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Nobody is putting out the liberal perspective on immigration here. I have two stories from my life.
1) Rich boss. My old boss was super smart, red haired white, very rich and productive, and married to a white USA citizen wife. But the immigration system is a thicket of endless interviews and time consuming forms. He still can't vote because becoming a citizen took too much time away from work.
2) Gardener. My family's old lawn guy did contract lawn work all round town. The dogs hated him cause of his lawnmower, but he did good work at fair pay. He disappeared shortly after the election. The family thinks his immigration status was probably bad.
Rich boss was likely illegally overstaying his visa before he married his wife, and even then the immigration system was too time consuming to become a citizen. Gardener was simply doomed and could never comply with the immigration system as it is. No way he had the money or time to get the lawyers necessary to grind through the system as is. The liberal perspective is that the immigration system is too hard, so we have sympathy for illegal immigrants as our system makes too many immigrants into illegal immigrants. The DREAMERS are illegals. But they shouldn't be. Under a just system they would be citizens. I get that lawfulness is a virtue, but unjust laws are not worth defending. Just saying ILLEGAL isn't enough when so many of these immigrants should be citizens and are penalized by a needlessly complex immigration system.
EDIT: also, if you defended the Arpaio pardon, then any insistence that lawfulness is the end of the argument is just more Trumpian hypocrisy.
EDIT2: another thing, if you survived crossing the Sonama desert just so you could pick crops or build houses, then you did more to earn your citizenship than I did. All I did was be born.
EDIT3: if you care about understanding the liberal perspective on the immigration system, consider the broader liberal/libertarian consensus on the Drug War. Liberals opinions on drugs laws and the immigration system are comparable. They both should be dramatically streamlined and offenders should not be punished so harshly.
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On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you.
Take the word "y'all" out of your sentences. I don't paint the entire right as some blob of obnoxious anti-intellectualism based on my interactions with you and Dangles, nor does anyone else in the thread. Don't stoop to that level if you want to be taken seriously.
edit: fuck, this is my 3000th post? I wasted that shit on this? I should've waited till I made my TLMC submission. GG.
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I know that's not the first time I harp on this but it's not really surprising that your rightwing doesn't have a bunch of coherent arguments after you have decided as a country to redefine the right so absurdly that someone like KwarK is now leftwing.
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...yep. Not looking forward to this. Stores are already running out of shit in my area, and gas prices are staying high.
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On September 06 2017 04:18 Nebuchad wrote:
I know that's not the first time I harp on this but it's not really surprising that your rightwing doesn't have a bunch of coherent arguments after you have decided as a country to redefine the right so absurdly that someone like KwarK is now leftwing.
Our right and left wing are still defined by racial politics, making most of their arguments about policy really bad. And we haven’t converted to the metric system.
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On September 06 2017 04:09 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. Put it this way: Is Trump bad? Bear in mind if you don't answer, or give anything more than yes or no, I can apparently assume you're either playing dumb or lying.
Watch and learn, everybody:
Yes, Trump has been bad so far.
The problem with most of the people around here is that y'all aren't smart enough to know to make the easy concessions when they need to be made. I don't have that problem, which is why my posting is remarkably consistent.
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I suppose I'm a bit selfish in saying this but it looks like Cape Canaveral will be spared the worst of the storm, saving me weeks worth of headache. I do worry about Cuba though; this is potentially catastrophic.
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On September 06 2017 04:29 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:03 Gorsameth wrote:On September 06 2017 03:57 xDaunt wrote:
What the fuck is vague or ambiguous about "is illegal immigration bad?" The fact that entire parts of the US economy would collapse without illegal immigrants? Agriculture for a big one. Then have the intellectual honesty to just say that you are in favor of illegal immigration.
Again, many people here have tried to get this distinction across to you and this is why the left is, generally, in favor of first fixing paths to citizenship and other immigration issues so the needed people for the US economy can actually get in the country legally.
As I saw someone else say, under the current broken system illegal immigration is a vital part of the US economy. so if you put a gun to my head to make a choice between being in favor of illegal immigration or destroying the entire US agriculture sector then yes, I have to be in favor.
So there, now you have a quote to completely take out of context.
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On September 06 2017 04:18 Nebuchad wrote:
I know that's not the first time I harp on this but it's not really surprising that your rightwing doesn't have a bunch of coherent arguments after you have decided as a country to redefine the right so absurdly that someone like KwarK is now leftwing.
And win elections with it! In most of the country!
Absolutely absurd. I follow these arguments incessantly, and I constantly wonder, "If all this is true, how could the Democrats be such losers to mess it all up to such a large degree." And the responses are ... telling. Like arguments that could get you to bad shit happening in the House, but not explain the supposedly out-of-step and ideologically bankrupt right can control so many governorships/state houses that you have to rewind to the civil war to beat the dominance.
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On September 06 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. I stand by my original assessment, this is gaslighting for stupid people. You can’t trick us into redefining good faith to allow you to call “the left” stupid all the time.
Feel free to show otherwise. I'm giving y'all plenty of opportunity to show your colors. Needless to say, I've found them wanting so far. And here's the rub: there is an intellectual and sound argument for y'all to make. So when you're ready to stop shitting up the thread and make it, I'll be here.
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On September 06 2017 04:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:18 Nebuchad wrote:
I know that's not the first time I harp on this but it's not really surprising that your rightwing doesn't have a bunch of coherent arguments after you have decided as a country to redefine the right so absurdly that someone like KwarK is now leftwing. And win elections with it! In most of the country! Absolutely absurd. I follow these arguments incessantly, and I constantly wonder, "If all this is true, how could the Democrats be such losers to mess it all up to such a large degree." And the responses are ... telling. Like arguments that could get you to bad shit happening in the House, but not explain the supposedly out-of-step and ideologically bankrupt right can control so many governorships/state houses that you have to rewind to the civil war to beat the dominance.
We're winning so we can't be wrong! If I'm not misremembering it's you that harps on about the failures of a two party system to give viable voting options, could that not be the case here?
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On September 06 2017 04:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. I stand by my original assessment, this is gaslighting for stupid people. You can’t trick us into redefining good faith to allow you to call “the left” stupid all the time. Feel free to show otherwise. I'm giving y'all plenty of opportunity to show your colors. Needless to say, I've found them wanting so far. And here's the rub: there is an intellectual and sound argument for y'all to make. So when you're ready to stop shitting up the thread and make it, I'll be here.
Is killing bad? There's an intellectual and sound argument for you to make, and if you don't make it that just confirms my suspicions that the Right are Pro-Killing.
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On September 06 2017 04:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:18 Nebuchad wrote:
I know that's not the first time I harp on this but it's not really surprising that your rightwing doesn't have a bunch of coherent arguments after you have decided as a country to redefine the right so absurdly that someone like KwarK is now leftwing. And win elections with it! In most of the country! Absolutely absurd. I follow these arguments incessantly, and I constantly wonder, "If all this is true, how could the Democrats be such losers to mess it all up to such a large degree." And the responses are ... telling. Like arguments that could get you to bad shit happening in the House, but not explain the supposedly out-of-step and ideologically bankrupt right can control so many governorships/state houses that you have to rewind to the civil war to beat the dominance.
Nothing of what you have written here demonstrates that my argument is absurd.
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On September 06 2017 04:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:11 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. I stand by my original assessment, this is gaslighting for stupid people. You can’t trick us into redefining good faith to allow you to call “the left” stupid all the time. Feel free to show otherwise. I'm giving y'all plenty of opportunity to show your colors. Needless to say, I've found them wanting so far. And here's the rub: there is an intellectual and sound argument for y'all to make. So when you're ready to stop shitting up the thread and make it, I'll be here.
And again, the discussion all started with a request to specific conservative poster define “securing the border” would entail. Because his argument was that it was the critical issue holding back immigration reform.
And somehow you came storming in there saying zero illegal immigration was the goal and that asking if we thought illegal immigration was bad.
We started with asking for some specifics to discuss and you decided it would be better to a vague and nonspecific as possible. And people responded exactly as expected.
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On September 06 2017 04:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:09 ChristianS wrote:On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. Put it this way: Is Trump bad? Bear in mind if you don't answer, or give anything more than yes or no, I can apparently assume you're either playing dumb or lying. Watch and learn, everybody: Yes, Trump has been bad so far. The problem with most of the people around here is that y'all aren't smart enough to know to make the easy concessions when they need to be made. I don't have that problem, which is why my posting is remarkably consistent.
"So far?" Arguing in bad faith, clearly either playing dumb or lying (/s).
So now can we accuse you of inconsistency for ever defending him on anything?
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On September 06 2017 04:17 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. Take the word "y'all" out of your sentences. I don't paint the entire right as some blob of obnoxious anti-intellectualism based on my interactions with you and Dangles, nor does anyone else in the thread. Don't stoop to that level if you want to be taken seriously. edit: fuck, this is my 3000th post? I wasted that shit on this? I should've waited till I made my TLMC submission. GG.
As has been discussed before, it's not practical for me to hash out every person's individual view points on an issue. It's much simpler for the purposes of discussion to simply use "the Left" or some other broad term that captures most people that will adhere to the view point to which I am attributing to them. I certainly understand that there's some room for variation. For this reason, I do not take offense or even object when other posters use "conservatives" or "republicans" monolithically.
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On September 06 2017 04:49 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2017 04:37 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 04:09 ChristianS wrote:On September 06 2017 04:03 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:59 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:56 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 03:34 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 03:22 xDaunt wrote:On September 06 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:On September 06 2017 01:57 xDaunt wrote:
I don't understand all of the handwringing going on here over the questions that I posed about illegal immigration. I gave y'all a very clear opportunity to acknowledge that it's a bad thing. I put it right on the tee, and y'all still wouldn't take it. Even I had the good sense to denounce Nazism while acknowledging that they have a right to protest. So what exactly is a reasonable person supposed to take from this refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is bad? And how about putting this refusal in the context of Democrats obstructing immigration enforcement if not outright encouraging it?
There's nothing inherently wrong with advocating for an open, legal immigration policy. However, where the Left has jumped the shark is in their dogged refusal to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a problem and a bad thing. Almost every poster agreed with you that it was illegal and bad for everyone. I didn't see anyone here saying it was great. What are you trying to do here? Is this gaslighting for stupid people? Who agreed with me? Just take a look at the shit from here going on forward. I went out of my way to create some common ground, and I get shit like this in response. You should consider these types of responses a reflection on your abject failure to build common ground. Look within my son. No, and to borrow language from zlefin, this very clearly is a function of the lack of soundness in the leftist position on immigration. Y'all are just as vulnerable on immigration as the right is on healthcare. Once again, look within. Extend people the good faith that you demand we keep extending you. I responded to your post with “I will also agree that crime is bad and all education should be the best.” What part of that was not agreeing with you? I showed the good faith by asking the fucking question in the simplest form possible rather than presuming the answer. That y'all still refused to make their simplest and easiest of admissions isn't my fault. If y'all want to play dumb or lie, I can't stop you. Put it this way: Is Trump bad? Bear in mind if you don't answer, or give anything more than yes or no, I can apparently assume you're either playing dumb or lying. Watch and learn, everybody: Yes, Trump has been bad so far. The problem with most of the people around here is that y'all aren't smart enough to know to make the easy concessions when they need to be made. I don't have that problem, which is why my posting is remarkably consistent. "So far?" Arguing in bad faith, clearly either playing dumb or lying (/s). So now can we accuse you of inconsistency for ever defending him on anything?
You probably should have the logic of this post checked before you go down this road. You're very far from terra firma.
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EPT
