• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:41
CEST 18:41
KST 01:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202560RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings What tournaments are world championships? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Post Pic of your Favorite Food! The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 917 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8518

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8516 8517 8518 8519 8520 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 22 2017 02:52 GMT
#170341
On August 22 2017 11:45 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 11:41 xDaunt wrote:
On August 22 2017 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Agree with all of those things, I just don't see how it is specific to black people.

It's a racially neutral effect, but the problem is that black people have a far higher incidence of single parent households, so they have a larger incidence of the attendant adverse side effects.

But is that because a larger percentage of their population is in poverty that whites? Or some other cause? How does welfare or any government policy increase the number of single parent house holds?


well obviously they end up not getting abortions like sane white people because they are incentivized by the exorbitant tax breaks and food stamps
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 22 2017 02:56 GMT
#170342
On August 22 2017 11:45 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 11:41 xDaunt wrote:
On August 22 2017 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Agree with all of those things, I just don't see how it is specific to black people.

It's a racially neutral effect, but the problem is that black people have a far higher incidence of single parent households, so they have a larger incidence of the attendant adverse side effects.

But is that because a larger percentage of their population is in poverty that whites? Or some other cause? How does welfare or any government policy increase the number of single family house holds?
Poverty and economic hardship are strains on marriage. However, most black children are born out of wedlock anyway, and in ever-increasing percentages. You're talking about a population that is stuck in a vicious negative feedback loop that has not built the communal infrastructure necessary to help support its youth (particularly given the lack of involved fathers) and stop them from doing really stupid shit that dooms them to hard lives -- whether it be having kids outside of marriage, joining gangs, drug abuse, etc. Though I'm not prepared to demonize welfare and pull the plug on it, it clearly isn't the solution to what is ailing black communities.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-22 03:02:21
August 22 2017 02:57 GMT
#170343
On August 22 2017 11:52 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 11:45 Plansix wrote:
On August 22 2017 11:41 xDaunt wrote:
On August 22 2017 11:37 Plansix wrote:
Agree with all of those things, I just don't see how it is specific to black people.

It's a racially neutral effect, but the problem is that black people have a far higher incidence of single parent households, so they have a larger incidence of the attendant adverse side effects.

But is that because a larger percentage of their population is in poverty that whites? Or some other cause? How does welfare or any government policy increase the number of single parent house holds?


well obviously they end up not getting abortions like sane white people because they are incentivized by the exorbitant tax breaks and food stamps

So the welfare queen, but for black people? Equally mythical too?

Xdaunt: this sounds like some respectability politics, which kinda went out of style. Although I think some of that stuff is true, lack of rebuilt communities and services is straight up a state problem. Not an lack community problem. It sounds like they need welfare and investment in this communities.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 22 2017 03:04 GMT
#170344
On August 22 2017 11:24 xDaunt wrote:
You don't necessarily need two wage earners in the house, but anyone who has children will tell you that being a single parent who is responsible for earning as well as taking care of the children is a brutal gig. That type of situation is a significant drag on a child's potential for success.


Tsk Tsk Dauntless. Aren't (or at least weren't) women virtual wage earners tied to their male provider? Isn't "taking care of the children" inevitably outsourced (usually at a liability wage) in single parent households? Maybe not two wage earners, but at least one wage earner plus a slave.

We must admit that capital has been very successful in hiding our work. It has created a true masterpiece at the expense of women. By denying housework a wage and transforming it into an act of love, capital has killed many birds with one stone. First of all, it has got a hell of a lot of work almost for free, and it has made sure that women, far from struggling against it, would seek that work as the best thing in life (the magic words: “Yes, darling, you are a real woman”). At the same time, it has disciplined the male worker also, by making his woman dependent on his work and his wage, and trapped him in this discipline by giving him a servant after he himself has done so much serving at the factory or the office. In fact, our role as women is to be the unwaged but happy, and most of all loving, servants of the ‘working class’, i.e. those strata of the proletariat to which capital was forced to grant more social power. In the same way as god created Eve to give pleasure to Adam, so did capital create the housewife to service the male worker physically, emotionally and sexually – to raise his children, mend his socks, patch up his ego when it is crushed by the work and the social relations (which are relations of loneliness) that capital has reserved for him. It is precisely this peculiar combination of physical, emotional and sexual services that are involved in the role women must perform for capital that creates the specific character of that servant which is the housewife, that makes her work so burdensome and at the same time invisible.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 22 2017 03:08 GMT
#170345
Jesus, what is that from?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 22 2017 03:09 GMT
#170346
On August 22 2017 12:04 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 11:24 xDaunt wrote:
You don't necessarily need two wage earners in the house, but anyone who has children will tell you that being a single parent who is responsible for earning as well as taking care of the children is a brutal gig. That type of situation is a significant drag on a child's potential for success.


Tsk Tsk Dauntless. Aren't (or at least weren't) women virtual wage earners tied to their male provider? Isn't "taking care of the children" inevitably outsourced (usually at a liability wage) in single parent households? Maybe not two wage earners, but at least one wage earner plus a slave.

Show nested quote +
We must admit that capital has been very successful in hiding our work. It has created a true masterpiece at the expense of women. By denying housework a wage and transforming it into an act of love, capital has killed many birds with one stone. First of all, it has got a hell of a lot of work almost for free, and it has made sure that women, far from struggling against it, would seek that work as the best thing in life (the magic words: “Yes, darling, you are a real woman”). At the same time, it has disciplined the male worker also, by making his woman dependent on his work and his wage, and trapped him in this discipline by giving him a servant after he himself has done so much serving at the factory or the office. In fact, our role as women is to be the unwaged but happy, and most of all loving, servants of the ‘working class’, i.e. those strata of the proletariat to which capital was forced to grant more social power. In the same way as god created Eve to give pleasure to Adam, so did capital create the housewife to service the male worker physically, emotionally and sexually – to raise his children, mend his socks, patch up his ego when it is crushed by the work and the social relations (which are relations of loneliness) that capital has reserved for him. It is precisely this peculiar combination of physical, emotional and sexual services that are involved in the role women must perform for capital that creates the specific character of that servant which is the housewife, that makes her work so burdensome and at the same time invisible.


What exactly are you arguing? I have never downplayed the value of the housewife.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 22 2017 03:11 GMT
#170347
Mostly that being a single parent is like being out of slaves on the plantation.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 22 2017 03:18 GMT
#170348
This go real weird real fast.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-22 03:19:02
August 22 2017 03:18 GMT
#170349
On August 22 2017 12:11 IgnE wrote:
Mostly that being a single parent is like being out of slaves on the plantation.

Yes, single parenting is definitely an issue of having inadequate labor, which was my original point. Working, feeding kids, transporting kids to/from school, and putting them to bed are hard enough. But then schools start sending kids home with homework and big projects to do. Who the fuck has time for that shit? Much less a single parent. All the school is accomplishing is further disadvantaging the disadvantaged kids.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
August 22 2017 03:19 GMT
#170350
On August 22 2017 12:08 Plansix wrote:
Jesus, what is that from?


Google tells me it is "Silvia Federici is an Italian-American scholar, teacher, and activist from the radical autonomist feminist Marxist tradition"
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 22 2017 03:26 GMT
#170351
On August 22 2017 12:19 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 12:08 Plansix wrote:
Jesus, what is that from?


Google tells me it is "Silvia Federici is an Italian-American scholar, teacher, and activist from the radical autonomist feminist Marxist tradition"

Yeah, I read the full post. Igne left out the best part where she talks about the "fraud of love and marriage." Goddamn, Miss Federici must be a miserable bitch.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-22 03:29:45
August 22 2017 03:28 GMT
#170352
Yeah, that sounds like the "I call myself a feminist, but I also tell women how to live their lives." Which is the opposite of how feminism works.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 22 2017 03:31 GMT
#170353
I bet she's lovely.

The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
August 22 2017 03:33 GMT
#170354
I fail to see how her ravings are relevant though?
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
August 22 2017 03:38 GMT
#170355
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 22 2017 12:26 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 12:19 Ghostcom wrote:
On August 22 2017 12:08 Plansix wrote:
Jesus, what is that from?


Google tells me it is "Silvia Federici is an Italian-American scholar, teacher, and activist from the radical autonomist feminist Marxist tradition"

Yeah, I read the full post. Igne left out the best part where she talks about the "fraud of love and marriage." Goddamn, Miss Federici must be a miserable bitch.

On August 22 2017 12:28 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, that sounds like the "I call myself a feminist, but I also tell women how to live their lives." Which is the opposite of how feminism works.

On August 22 2017 12:31 IgnE wrote:
I bet she's lovely.



Personally, I'm failing to see how taking personal shots at her is a worthwhile use of time; is it only okay because nobody in the thread agrees with her point of view?

But yes, it doesn't seem worth discussing further.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 22 2017 03:41 GMT
#170356
I took umbrage with her use of feminism and talking about the fraud of love and marriage. To be fair, I don't know if she self labeled herself as an feminist.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 22 2017 03:41 GMT
#170357
On August 22 2017 12:33 Ghostcom wrote:
I fail to see how her ravings are relevant though?


Well because the Right is correct. Single parent households are all about misaligned economic incentives. They just got the analysis wrong. Sylvia's trenchant and perceptive analysis gets it right.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 22 2017 03:48 GMT
#170358
On August 22 2017 12:41 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2017 12:33 Ghostcom wrote:
I fail to see how her ravings are relevant though?


Well because the Right is correct. Single parent households are all about misaligned economic incentives. They just got the analysis wrong. Sylvia's trenchant and perceptive analysis gets it right.

So I've read Sylvia's passage a few times now, and I'm having trouble seeing exactly where the Right diverges materially from her Marxist construction of the housewife. In other words, I don't see where the Right's analysis is wrong. Care to explain?
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-22 03:50:50
August 22 2017 03:50 GMT
#170359
Edit: one at a time, I'll wait my turn.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-22 03:52:40
August 22 2017 03:51 GMT
#170360
Her analysis is also unnecessarily inflammatory, which undercuts its message. The economic pressure top be in a two person house hold can result is one party being saddled with under cutting their earnings to care for the child. This seems effective at its face, but promoting this as the standard disadvantages parents who do not have partners. Sometimes parents just die, so its not about personal responsibility. The widowed parent shouldn't be rushing out there to find a partner just to make ends meet. Social safety nets and services should exist for single parents and should be as much a priority and two parents house holds.

But this purely economic standpoints is myopic. We are talking about raising an entire human being, not just a economic money sink. There are considerations beyond simple providing sufficient money for food and shelter. And that can be best accomplished with a support system, though it does not need to be two parents.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Prev 1 8516 8517 8518 8519 8520 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #219
davetesta15
Liquipedia
Esports World Cup
11:00
2025 - Final Day
Serral vs ClassicLIVE!
EWC_Arena20873
ComeBackTV 4907
TaKeTV 1031
JimRising 789
Hui .752
3DClanTV 517
Fuzer 336
EnkiAlexander 297
Rex266
CranKy Ducklings155
Reynor151
SpeCial78
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena20873
JimRising 789
Hui .752
Fuzer 336
Rex 266
Reynor 151
UpATreeSC 142
SpeCial 78
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4429
Shuttle 2618
Larva 973
Mini 729
actioN 509
EffOrt 361
Soma 299
ggaemo 235
Rush 142
TY 126
[ Show more ]
sorry 92
Snow 90
JYJ85
Shine 66
Hyun 65
Aegong 26
Terrorterran 17
JulyZerg 16
zelot 16
Sacsri 9
sas.Sziky 9
soO 7
yabsab 5
NaDa 3
Dota 2
Gorgc7411
XaKoH 447
syndereN428
420jenkins395
XcaliburYe311
Counter-Strike
fl0m3570
sgares369
oskar224
Other Games
gofns6788
FrodaN1860
singsing1817
Beastyqt706
KnowMe135
ArmadaUGS116
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• FirePhoenix1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV548
League of Legends
• Nemesis4176
Other Games
• Shiphtur362
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
17h 19m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
21h 19m
CSO Cup
23h 19m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 1h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 16h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 21h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.