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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10924 Posts
July 11 2017 17:54 GMT
#161101
On July 12 2017 02:41 On_Slaught wrote:
Curious what xDaunt has to say about this. The violation of campaign finance law article seems pretty damning.



Nah. Wait for realityking and xtrunks or whatever for the full blown dose of bullshit.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 11 2017 17:59 GMT
#161102
The problem is that the followers are in too deep. It's basically like endorsing flat-earth theories. Once you've done it the cost of admitting you were wrong is too big, so you just have to pile more rationalisations onto it. There'll never be anything that convinces Trump followers to not like Trump, or they'd have already jumped off the wagon.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 11 2017 17:59 GMT
#161103
I'm still wrapping my mind around reporter who has been chasing this story for a year being vindicated in a single tweet. I've had to assist our PI on some cases with records searching and other things. The dead ends cause you question your self so much, like everything you are doing it wrong. I can't even process the idea of working on the case for an entire year and then having all of it confirmed in a single moment.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-11 18:01:29
July 11 2017 18:01 GMT
#161104
On July 12 2017 02:53 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2017 02:31 On_Slaught wrote:
Pull Kushners security clearance. Anybody else would have lost it by now.

Whose responsibility is this?


Some government agency I'm sure. I'm also sure there is a lot political pressure to do nothing. Let's not forget Kushner is personally fixing about 37% of the world's major issues by himself.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
July 11 2017 18:03 GMT
#161105
I almost feel bad for the reporter in that a year's work was wrapped up by a single tweet. With the amount of effort put into that, as compared to just simply asking the guy at the core of the investigation to confirm/deny.

The next week is going to be super juicy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 11 2017 18:03 GMT
#161106
I think it is the NSA and I doubt they will pull his clearance without the senate asking it to be pulled. But I don't really know the process for someone like Kushner.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-11 18:12:54
July 11 2017 18:12 GMT
#161107
Worth mentioning that some Senators already wanted to summon Jr. to testify. Now it's a certainty. Hopefully they decide to make it a public hearing.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 11 2017 18:27 GMT
#161108
On July 12 2017 01:12 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2017 23:54 Danglars wrote:


NYT Brooks outdoes himself with the kind of elitism middle America facepalma at.

I like how it doesn't even occur to him that she might just think the gourmet sandwich shop serves really shitty food

There was a good point in that article someplace, but that sandwich thing destroyed it forever.

Also, the number of really smart people with PHDs and masters saying they had no idea what those meats were sort of killed his point. Smart people twitter was not impressed.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 11 2017 18:28 GMT
#161109
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
July 11 2017 18:28 GMT
#161110
I expect to see a new Dem talking point bubbling up: we need to be saying CONSPIRACY instead of COLLUSION. Conspiracy is closer to a chargeable offense. If DonJR et al thought they could get the illegally hacked emails by conspiring with Russian agents, that would be perilously close to a criminal conspiracy. Collusion with the Russians is not itself a crime, but conspiring to participate in illegally sourced information can be.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24143 Posts
July 11 2017 18:30 GMT
#161111
On July 12 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2017 01:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 12 2017 01:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 11 2017 17:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 11 2017 09:26 Plansix wrote:
I like how GH drops in every once and a while to let us know just how misguided most of us and the country are.


This seems oddly familiar. I suspect it works out about as well in 2018 as it did in 2016. Can't say you didn't know better. The funny thing is that you guys genuinely think the caping you guys do for Democrats is significantly different than the caping Danglars and xDaunt do for Republicans.

It has grown as tiresome as you have come to find my periodic reminders that the Democrats are doing it wrong. Just let it soak in that you guys are taking the position that I'm wrong, and Democrats (losing 1000+ seats and the presidency against a cartoon villian of a candidate) are actually making the right moves.

See, here's the thing.

You're not wrong for criticizing Democrats.

You're wrong for not having any consideration beyond "get rid of the Democrats", and any attempts at discussing political nuance with you ultimately comes down to you saying democrats aren't trying hard enough, and they could fix everything by not being democrats.

I agree with GH though. They could fix everything by not being Democrats. They are trying to play the high road and have been shown by the republicans that all that matters is winning. The landscape of politics has changed too fast for the democrats in my opinion and they seem to be wrestling on how best to catch up or even the playing field. I think, and this is me, they need to change their entire party structure and change leaders, especially in congress. the DNC is just a clusterfuck, so bail on that for now. Get popular democrats in positions of power and change the narrative as quickly as possibly. Stop blaming republicans for everything and offer an alternative.


Yes, but we need to live reality. There has been a version of the Democratic party for as long as our nation itself and has been on every side of history. Good and bad. If being on the losing side of the civil war didn’t purge it from politics, I doubt this will. Ditching/ending “party” is pure cosmetics, the people will still exist in politics in some way. If people want to change things, they need to do it from within one of the existing parties or create a viable third party through local elections. Both of those are very hard to do.


Fine, as long as you're acknowledging that Democrats need to change, and they have no intention to and that is a terrible strategy and leaves people with little choice. The Democrats aren't changing.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9062 Posts
July 11 2017 18:35 GMT
#161112
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 11 2017 18:37 GMT
#161113
On July 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:
On July 12 2017 01:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 12 2017 01:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 11 2017 17:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 11 2017 09:26 Plansix wrote:
I like how GH drops in every once and a while to let us know just how misguided most of us and the country are.


This seems oddly familiar. I suspect it works out about as well in 2018 as it did in 2016. Can't say you didn't know better. The funny thing is that you guys genuinely think the caping you guys do for Democrats is significantly different than the caping Danglars and xDaunt do for Republicans.

It has grown as tiresome as you have come to find my periodic reminders that the Democrats are doing it wrong. Just let it soak in that you guys are taking the position that I'm wrong, and Democrats (losing 1000+ seats and the presidency against a cartoon villian of a candidate) are actually making the right moves.

See, here's the thing.

You're not wrong for criticizing Democrats.

You're wrong for not having any consideration beyond "get rid of the Democrats", and any attempts at discussing political nuance with you ultimately comes down to you saying democrats aren't trying hard enough, and they could fix everything by not being democrats.

I agree with GH though. They could fix everything by not being Democrats. They are trying to play the high road and have been shown by the republicans that all that matters is winning. The landscape of politics has changed too fast for the democrats in my opinion and they seem to be wrestling on how best to catch up or even the playing field. I think, and this is me, they need to change their entire party structure and change leaders, especially in congress. the DNC is just a clusterfuck, so bail on that for now. Get popular democrats in positions of power and change the narrative as quickly as possibly. Stop blaming republicans for everything and offer an alternative.


Yes, but we need to live reality. There has been a version of the Democratic party for as long as our nation itself and has been on every side of history. Good and bad. If being on the losing side of the civil war didn’t purge it from politics, I doubt this will. Ditching/ending “party” is pure cosmetics, the people will still exist in politics in some way. If people want to change things, they need to do it from within one of the existing parties or create a viable third party through local elections. Both of those are very hard to do.


Fine, as long as you're acknowledging that Democrats need to change, and they have no intention to and that is a terrible strategy and leaves people with little choice. The Democrats aren't changing.

At this point I have no idea who you are arguing with or what you are trying to say. You seem to conflate peoples irritation with your condescending style of discussion with disapproval of your overall point. People don’t dislike the message, but they are sick of the messenger.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22476 Posts
July 11 2017 18:37 GMT
#161114
On July 12 2017 03:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/884810992902955008

How informative, there is actually a word for the worst way to run a government...
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24143 Posts
July 11 2017 18:38 GMT
#161115
On July 12 2017 03:37 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 12 2017 02:04 Plansix wrote:
On July 12 2017 01:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 12 2017 01:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 11 2017 17:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 11 2017 09:26 Plansix wrote:
I like how GH drops in every once and a while to let us know just how misguided most of us and the country are.


This seems oddly familiar. I suspect it works out about as well in 2018 as it did in 2016. Can't say you didn't know better. The funny thing is that you guys genuinely think the caping you guys do for Democrats is significantly different than the caping Danglars and xDaunt do for Republicans.

It has grown as tiresome as you have come to find my periodic reminders that the Democrats are doing it wrong. Just let it soak in that you guys are taking the position that I'm wrong, and Democrats (losing 1000+ seats and the presidency against a cartoon villian of a candidate) are actually making the right moves.

See, here's the thing.

You're not wrong for criticizing Democrats.

You're wrong for not having any consideration beyond "get rid of the Democrats", and any attempts at discussing political nuance with you ultimately comes down to you saying democrats aren't trying hard enough, and they could fix everything by not being democrats.

I agree with GH though. They could fix everything by not being Democrats. They are trying to play the high road and have been shown by the republicans that all that matters is winning. The landscape of politics has changed too fast for the democrats in my opinion and they seem to be wrestling on how best to catch up or even the playing field. I think, and this is me, they need to change their entire party structure and change leaders, especially in congress. the DNC is just a clusterfuck, so bail on that for now. Get popular democrats in positions of power and change the narrative as quickly as possibly. Stop blaming republicans for everything and offer an alternative.


Yes, but we need to live reality. There has been a version of the Democratic party for as long as our nation itself and has been on every side of history. Good and bad. If being on the losing side of the civil war didn’t purge it from politics, I doubt this will. Ditching/ending “party” is pure cosmetics, the people will still exist in politics in some way. If people want to change things, they need to do it from within one of the existing parties or create a viable third party through local elections. Both of those are very hard to do.


Fine, as long as you're acknowledging that Democrats need to change, and they have no intention to and that is a terrible strategy and leaves people with little choice. The Democrats aren't changing.

At this point I have no idea who you are arguing with or what you are trying to say. You seem to conflate peoples irritation with your condescending style of discussion with disapproval of your overall point. People don’t dislike the message, but they are sick of the messenger.


That is not at all the argument being made previously. I think you guys are just finally seeing how wrong you were.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 11 2017 18:40 GMT
#161116
I just can't imagine a situation where jr tweets something showing something illegal. Is everyone just overreacting?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 11 2017 18:41 GMT
#161117
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24143 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-11 18:44:11
July 11 2017 18:42 GMT
#161118
On July 12 2017 03:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I just can't imagine a situation where jr tweets something showing something illegal. Is everyone just overreacting?


Of course they are, if it is illegal, it's a federal crime, and Trump pardons him.

It won't even hurt him much if he does since it is his first born son, and namesake, so plenty of people will empathize. What kind of asshole would let his son rot in prison if he could just free him?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22476 Posts
July 11 2017 18:44 GMT
#161119
On July 12 2017 03:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I just can't imagine a situation where jr tweets something showing something illegal. Is everyone just overreacting?

Really? you haven't realized people can be this stupid?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-11 18:49:22
July 11 2017 18:47 GMT
#161120
On July 12 2017 03:40 Mohdoo wrote:
I just can't imagine a situation where jr tweets something showing something illegal. Is everyone just overreacting?


This is probably part of why he released it, I think (since it was bound to come out anyway). It really helps for his supporters who think Trump and his family are geniuses and could never do something dumb, therefore anything they release must be a smart thing to release and couldn't implicate them.

Never mind that there's about as much evidence for Trump Jr being a genius as there is for clean coal.
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