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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
A sage post.
On September 08 2016 14:18 IgnE wrote:
Reagan...at least had the End of History story to buttress the emptiness that was his politics. The End of History tapped into primordial myths of good vs. evil and obscured the Reagan aesthetic. He kind of prefigured the Real World by about a decade as an actor who played himself on the stage of the White House. But imagine Obama on reality tv. He would be terrible at it. He (perhaps reluctantly) represented the aesthetics of the leftist consensus.
Compare for example the titanic struggle between the USA and the USSR with Trump's story about building a wall. One has resemblances to the political; the other is Warhol.
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I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March?
NYT
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Those harmful scoundrels. Better bring in seasonal workers with cost to the government.
The co-owner of a dockside Baltimore restaurant has revealed that nearly his entire kitchen staff resigned after an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent demanded their papers in the latest example of the national debate over immigration.
In an open letter to his customers Saturday, BoatHouse Canton owner Gene Singleton blamed the Trump administration “for targeting the Hispanic community.” He has since been alternately condemned or praised for defending his workers regardless of their legal status.
So now the restaurant is short 30 workers, with the remaining staff working double shifts and the departed seeking help from an immigrant advocacy agency.
www.washingtonpost.com
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On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT
I would take any report or editorial on that with a grain of salt. There are two conflicting stories on about march.
From my understanding, the people with the flags were allowed to complete the march. But then started shouting pro-Zionist slogans at some point. It made some of the marchers uncomfortable and feel unwelcome, since that whole conflict is pretty hotly contested. The group with the flags was asked to stop and that is where the conflict came from. The objection was not, per the people who objected, because of the flags themselves.
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On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT
The Article seems to be a bit heavy on the us vs them theme. Jews, you are not liked here in the US, especially not by the progressives because they hate Israel. That's what seems to be the idea of it and i can't stress enough how stupid that is. Judaism is not Israel, antisemitism and anti-israel sentiments are not the same. And when i see ad-banners on TL that tell me that every 7 seconds somebody posts a lie about israel on the internet and i should speak out against it, i am a bit concerned that opinion pieces like that are a part of a coordinated campaign.
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On June 29 2017 00:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT I would take any report or editorial on that with a grain of salt. There are two conflicting stories on about march. From my understanding, the people with the flags were allowed to complete the march. But then started shouting pro-Zionist slogans at some point. It made some of the marchers uncomfortable and feel unwelcome, since that whole conflict is pretty hotly contested. The group with the flags was asked to stop and that is where the conflict came from. The objection was not, per the people who objected, because of the flags themselves.
I find it doubtful that this article missed the truth, and that the truth was the lesbian Jews were secretly Zionists and vocal zionists. Compare with theoretically being generally disruptive and organizers had to ask to leave, then marcher claimed it was for her identity. Secondly, even being proud of your Jewish identity makes some feel unsafe and unwelcome these days, so very little more would have to be present for that claim. It should be resisted.
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On June 29 2017 01:01 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT The Article seems to be a bit heavy on the us vs them theme. Jews, you are not liked here in the US, especially not by the progressives because they hate Israel. That's what seems to be the idea of it and i can't stress enough how stupid that is. Judaism is not Israel, antisemitism and anti-israel sentiments are not the same. And when i see ad-banners on TL that tell me that every 7 seconds somebody posts a lie about israel on the internet and i should speak out against it, i am a bit concerned that opinion pieces like that are a part of a coordinated campaign.
Just assuming it was accurate for the moment that the flags themselves were the cause for removal, would that raise your rancor? I'm more in the belief that being proud of your nationality shouldn't preclude your participation in marches made in support of your views. This stands no matter what people think of the politics of your home country, or the oppression ladder you fall under.
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On June 28 2017 23:50 Doodsmack wrote:A sage post. Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 14:18 IgnE wrote:
Reagan...at least had the End of History story to buttress the emptiness that was his politics. The End of History tapped into primordial myths of good vs. evil and obscured the Reagan aesthetic. He kind of prefigured the Real World by about a decade as an actor who played himself on the stage of the White House. But imagine Obama on reality tv. He would be terrible at it. He (perhaps reluctantly) represented the aesthetics of the leftist consensus.
Compare for example the titanic struggle between the USA and the USSR with Trump's story about building a wall. One has resemblances to the political; the other is Warhol.
I enjoyed Igne's "politics of the aesthetic" posts during the campaign, and that one above was my favorite. I was particularly amused by the Warhol reference. I wonder what good ol' Andy would have thought about Trump being likened to his artwork.
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On June 29 2017 01:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 00:39 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT I would take any report or editorial on that with a grain of salt. There are two conflicting stories on about march. From my understanding, the people with the flags were allowed to complete the march. But then started shouting pro-Zionist slogans at some point. It made some of the marchers uncomfortable and feel unwelcome, since that whole conflict is pretty hotly contested. The group with the flags was asked to stop and that is where the conflict came from. The objection was not, per the people who objected, because of the flags themselves. I find it doubtful that this article missed the truth, and that the truth was the lesbian Jews were secretly Zionists and vocal zionists. Compare with theoretically being generally disruptive and organizers had to ask to leave, then marcher claimed it was for her identity. Secondly, even being proud of your Jewish identity makes some feel unsafe and unwelcome these days, so very little more would have to be present for that claim. It should be resisted.
Nothing in what you say here serves to prove or disprove either description of the event. And from what I googled about A Wider Bridge in the last 17 seconds, they're not that secret about the whole zionist thing, and other Jews in the march were amongst the first to ask them to leave.
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On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT
the "consequences of intersectionality"? dont you see some irony in the author's equating the original formulation with his "my liberation is bound up with yours" poster? why talk about the fatalistic "consequences" of a monolithic "intersectionality"?
does Plotinus have a monopoly on Plato? i think that banning Jewish lesbians from a "dyke march" is as stupid and self-defeating as is imaginable, but the author can't avoid reproducing the "us v. them" battle lines.
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On June 29 2017 01:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2017 23:50 Doodsmack wrote:A sage post. On September 08 2016 14:18 IgnE wrote:
Reagan...at least had the End of History story to buttress the emptiness that was his politics. The End of History tapped into primordial myths of good vs. evil and obscured the Reagan aesthetic. He kind of prefigured the Real World by about a decade as an actor who played himself on the stage of the White House. But imagine Obama on reality tv. He would be terrible at it. He (perhaps reluctantly) represented the aesthetics of the leftist consensus.
Compare for example the titanic struggle between the USA and the USSR with Trump's story about building a wall. One has resemblances to the political; the other is Warhol. I enjoyed Igne's "politics of the aesthetic" posts during the campaign, and that one above was my favorite. I was particularly amused by the Warhol reference. I wonder what good ol' Andy would have thought about Trump being likened to his artwork.
to be fair to Warhol, Trump in this analogy isn't Warhol himself. he is Warhol's subject. the camera keeps rolling. we get Trump's rants, then his silence, then his gloomy discomfort.
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On June 29 2017 01:15 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 01:01 Broetchenholer wrote:On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT The Article seems to be a bit heavy on the us vs them theme. Jews, you are not liked here in the US, especially not by the progressives because they hate Israel. That's what seems to be the idea of it and i can't stress enough how stupid that is. Judaism is not Israel, antisemitism and anti-israel sentiments are not the same. And when i see ad-banners on TL that tell me that every 7 seconds somebody posts a lie about israel on the internet and i should speak out against it, i am a bit concerned that opinion pieces like that are a part of a coordinated campaign. Just assuming it was accurate for the moment that the flags themselves were the cause for removal, would that raise your rancor? I'm more in the belief that being proud of your nationality shouldn't preclude your participation in marches made in support of your views. This stands no matter what people think of the politics of your home country, or the oppression ladder you fall under.
I personally don't understand the need to show pride for your country, because you can only be proud of stuff you influenced in some way. I do however understand that some people feel strongly about it and they should be allowed to show their pride. If the flags themselves were the reason they were asked to leave, then of course that is wrong. And i have no idea why they were asked to leave but anti-israel sentiment is probably the reason for it, or even antisemitism. I just see a parallel between "invest in Israel now!" and "don't let them lie about israel" ads on TL and the opinion piece stating to be aware that they hate us jews and that we jews should not be anti-israel. Look at the title: "I'm glad the Dyke March banned Jewish Stars".
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Germany6287 Posts
I can't believe that I agree with Danglars but to frame it any other way than left-wingers being zealous about Israel is ridiculous. This is a well known issue on the political left. British student politics had this going on for a long time too, and in Germany this actually led to a split on the far-left in the 90s.
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On June 29 2017 01:23 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 01:11 Danglars wrote:On June 29 2017 00:39 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT I would take any report or editorial on that with a grain of salt. There are two conflicting stories on about march. From my understanding, the people with the flags were allowed to complete the march. But then started shouting pro-Zionist slogans at some point. It made some of the marchers uncomfortable and feel unwelcome, since that whole conflict is pretty hotly contested. The group with the flags was asked to stop and that is where the conflict came from. The objection was not, per the people who objected, because of the flags themselves. I find it doubtful that this article missed the truth, and that the truth was the lesbian Jews were secretly Zionists and vocal zionists. Compare with theoretically being generally disruptive and organizers had to ask to leave, then marcher claimed it was for her identity. Secondly, even being proud of your Jewish identity makes some feel unsafe and unwelcome these days, so very little more would have to be present for that claim. It should be resisted. Nothing in what you say here serves to prove or disprove either description of the event. And from what I googled about A Wider Bridge in the last 17 seconds, they're not that secret about the whole zionist thing, and other Jews in the march were amongst the first to ask them to leave.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative about the intolerant left. Also cancel the showing of Julius Caesar where they mirror of politicians of the era.
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On June 29 2017 01:36 Nyxisto wrote:
I can't believe that I agree with Danglars but to frame it any other way than left-wingers being zealous about Israel is ridiculous. This is a well known issue on the political left. British student politics had this going on for a long time too, and in Germany this actually led to a split on the far-left in the 90s.
"zealous about Israel" is kind of the same thing we're saying, except said from a perspective where antizionism isn't a justified position. Danglars' side was more antisemitism, with the doubt offered at the notion that the people were expelled for their professed views and not for who they were.
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Canada11384 Posts
On June 29 2017 01:23 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 01:11 Danglars wrote:On June 29 2017 00:39 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2017 00:32 Danglars wrote:I’m Glad the Dyke March Banned Jewish Stars
This weekend, at a lesbian march in Chicago, three women carrying Jewish pride flags — rainbow flags embossed with a Star of David — were kicked out of the celebration on the grounds that their flags were a “trigger.” An organizer of the Dyke March told the Windy City Times that the fabric “made people feel unsafe” and that she and the other members of the Dyke March collective didn’t want anything “that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism” at the event.
Laurel Grauer, one of the women who was ejected, said she’d been carrying that Jewish pride flag in the march, held on the Saturday before the city’s official Pride Parade, for more than a decade. It “celebrates my queer, Jewish identity,” she explained. This year, however, she lost track of the number of people who harassed her for carrying it.
I’m sorry for the women, like Ms. Grauer, who found themselves under genuine threat for carrying a colorful cloth falsely accused of being pernicious.
But I am also grateful.
Has there ever been a crisper expression of the consequences of “intersectionality” than a ban on Jewish lesbians from a Dyke March? NYT I would take any report or editorial on that with a grain of salt. There are two conflicting stories on about march. From my understanding, the people with the flags were allowed to complete the march. But then started shouting pro-Zionist slogans at some point. It made some of the marchers uncomfortable and feel unwelcome, since that whole conflict is pretty hotly contested. The group with the flags was asked to stop and that is where the conflict came from. The objection was not, per the people who objected, because of the flags themselves. I find it doubtful that this article missed the truth, and that the truth was the lesbian Jews were secretly Zionists and vocal zionists. Compare with theoretically being generally disruptive and organizers had to ask to leave, then marcher claimed it was for her identity. Secondly, even being proud of your Jewish identity makes some feel unsafe and unwelcome these days, so very little more would have to be present for that claim. It should be resisted. Nothing in what you say here serves to prove or disprove either description of the event. And from what I googled about A Wider Bridge in the last 17 seconds, they're not that secret about the whole zionist thing, and other Jews in the march were amongst the first to ask them to leave.
How do you define zionism? Because my 17 seconds of googling found their goals to be personal rather than political- make Israel a more inclusive society that sort of thing.
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I'm waiting for Soylent Green.
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On June 29 2017 01:36 Nyxisto wrote:
I can't believe that I agree with Danglars but to frame it any other way than left-wingers being zealous about Israel is ridiculous. This is a well known issue on the political left. British student politics had this going on for a long time too, and in Germany this actually led to a split on the far-left in the 90s.
Israel makes it very hard to support them. Same with the Palestinians, though less so in this modern era.
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Germany6287 Posts
On June 29 2017 01:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2017 01:36 Nyxisto wrote:
I can't believe that I agree with Danglars but to frame it any other way than left-wingers being zealous about Israel is ridiculous. This is a well known issue on the political left. British student politics had this going on for a long time too, and in Germany this actually led to a split on the far-left in the 90s. Israel makes it very hard to support them. Same with the Palestinians, though less so in this modern era.
Throwing people with a David's star out of a lgbt rally goes much further than not supporting Israel politically though, it's a pretty anti-semitic statement. If you don't like Israel's foreign politics you can join another demonstration, but kicking someone out just for displaying Israelian nationality?
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EPT
