US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7860

On June 15 2017 02:50 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't really see the difference between this and pizzagate. This is why stuff like Kathy Griffin's bullshit is really bad. Lesser humans are vulnerable to these kinds of thoughts and they are easily radicalized. This guy is a perfect example of what happens when weak, deficient people are exposed to empowering philosophy. They latch onto it and find meaning/power. The people doing this kind of thing are rarely well paid, confident, successful people. Some are, but most of them are runts of a litter.

On June 15 2017 02:50 KwarK wrote:
Long time no see DEB. I think that's fair, although part of the problem is the "choose your own news" nature of media these days. What began with partisan radio and became cable news has now reached what we can hope is its final form in the monster of exclusive and self perpetuating facebook news groups. Both sides now have their own independent realities which present the opposing side as being wholly incompatible.

It was in Egypt's Tahrir Square that I became a critic of the idea that social media somehow powers activism.

I was there researching social media's impact on movements and revolutions.
Across the world, I have seen how it is great at spreading information when it is able to reach people who normally would not be connected to traditional news sources.

But during the Arab Spring I also saw how social media locks that information into bubbles that are constructed in ways that we barely control or see.

In Cairo, the bubble was young, educated, middle class, liberals. The failure to break out of that bubble and transform political institutions ended up leading to the military coup in 2013.

Since then my view has changed a bit, in part, because of basketball. Specifically the NBA.

The NBA has shown that social media can be a great tool in shaping social and political causes. It can do so if those causes are adopted by a strong and engaged organization with a broad reach.

On June 15 2017 02:50 KwarK wrote:
Long time no see DEB. I think that's fair, although part of the problem is the "choose your own news" nature of media these days. What began with partisan radio and became cable news has now reached what we can hope is its final form in the monster of exclusive and self perpetuating facebook news groups. Both sides now have their own independent realities which present the opposing side as being wholly incompatible.

On June 15 2017 02:54 Plansix wrote:

I would argue that saying “lesser humans are vulnerable to these kinds of thoughts” is incorrect. And the belief that people who perform these violent acts are “weak” only contributes to the misunderstanding of these problems. We are all vulnerable to this give the right circumstances.

On June 15 2017 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:


This is where big data analytics bullshit has really hurt us as a species. Analytics help people find and see stuff that appeals to them rather than letting the market of ideas do its job. People need to be exposed to offensive, philosophically troubling, extremely "wrong" stuff. We need to always have a mixing of ideas. Ideas get stale and shitty when they are just circle jerking.



Well, I don't necessarily think weakness needs to be taboo or negative or whatever. Mental illness is a form of weakness in all the same ways as a troublesome bladder or thyroid or some shit is. But mental weakness brings down the whole a lot more strongly than someone who has a limp. I think its definitely correct to say that people struggling in a variety of mental/emotional ways are vulnerable to this. But I do admit I didn't do a good job at saying that.

Regardless, there is a definite trend of runts of a litter being the types to do stuff like this. This is why people need to be seeing mental health professionals at least annually. The fact that we let people just go years and years without having a mental checkup is complete madness.

On June 15 2017 02:50 KwarK wrote:
Long time no see DEB. I think that's fair, although part of the problem is the "choose your own news" nature of media these days. What began with partisan radio and became cable news has now reached what we can hope is its final form in the monster of exclusive and self perpetuating facebook news groups. Both sides now have their own independent realities which present the opposing side as being wholly incompatible.

On June 15 2017 03:10 Plansix wrote:

I understand what you are saying and your reasoning has merit. But I think it can be harmful to claim that mentally ills as a “weakness”. Not all mental illness are permanent. Many of them are caused by things that are out of the person’s control. I’ve seen these both personally and professionally. Mental illness is like flu. It is not anyone’s fault and sometimes people can just power through it. Other times is develops into phenomena and you die from it.

On June 15 2017 03:25 KwarK wrote:
It'd help if you guys had something like the BBC. Cable news and political talk radio never really took off in the UK. We have extreme partisan tabloids but we're all watching the same news every night and both sides insist that it is biased against them. I know Americans don't tend to trust anything publicly run and maybe that's fair because it could potentially be vulnerable to government intervention but it's an institution that is worth cultivating. I trust the BBC in a way that I wouldn't ever trust CNN because I believe that it is run by people who are loyal to the ideals on which it was founded.

There's value in that.

On June 15 2017 03:13 zlefin wrote:
mohdoo, I disagree in part with your : "This is where big data analytics bullshit has really hurt us as a species. Analytics help people find and see stuff that appeals to them rather than letting the market of ideas do its job. People need to be exposed to offensive, philosophically troubling, extremely "wrong" stuff. We need to always have a mixing of ideas. Ideas get stale and shitty when they are just circle jerking."

the problem is that people are exposed to the extremely wrong stuff; as opposed to the kinda wrong but has a decent point stuff.
they only hear the arguments from the FRINGE of the other side; rather than the reasonable points of the more centrist parts of the other side. They only see the crazies on the other side, rather than the sane ones. This makes it far easier to view the other side as crazy.

On June 15 2017 03:19 Mohdoo wrote:


Point well taken and I agree. I suppose I see what you described as externally induced weakness. It is not to say the person is flawed (but I also argue the idea of people being flawed should be a much more accepted reality because everyone is deeply flawed in many ways) as a specimen, but more so performing below accepted/healthy behavior. When someone grows up with an abusive family, they become flawed in a lot of different ways. Those flaws grow and propagate and eventually you end up with a mess like this shooter. I would certainly not say these flaws are the "fault" of the person being abused, but the reality of how these flaws impact society doesn't become any less real. They still need help and we don't do ourselves any good by overly protecting these people. I would argue a more honest perspective on human deficiency is helpful for society as a whole. Rather than always telling ourselves we are all great or equal down inside, we should recognize that humans are deeply complex and will have a long list of strengths and weaknesses. We should be able to say "Wow, my self image is totally fucked and it needs to get fixed" in the same way we would say the same thing about a gimped leg.

On June 15 2017 03:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:

I get most of my news from NPR. I'll scan MSN or CNN for the BREAKING, but I go to NPR for the integrity.

On June 15 2017 03:52 GreenHorizons wrote:


If you want to know about a story you need to check at least 3 sources, NPR is pretty good about not putting out outright false information, but they, like practically every source, tend to leave important details or context out.

MANN: Battle lines really drawn here. I saw people on both sides of the street actually wearing uniforms, a lot of military militia-style fatigues on the pro-Trump anti-Sharia side of the street. And on the other side of the street, dozens of protesters wearing face masks and carrying red and black protest flags. The organizer of the main event here was Lisa Joseph.

She describes herself as a Jewish woman who believes that Muslim Sharia practices could be a real threat to American society, though, she couldn't point to any examples of it actually being implemented in the country right now.