|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On June 15 2017 00:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:
I’m straight up nervous about how Trump’s crew will spin this. They could really ratchet up the tension if they say “look it was a democrat”. Funny you mention that: Show nested quote +The gunman who opened fire this morning on Republican congressmen and staffers recently declared in a Facebook post that, “It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”
Hodgkinson, a Belleville, Illinois resident, has worked as a home inspector. Source. I can't really say that I am surprised given what the media has been pumping into the American public since Trump's election. I'm sure that a disturbingly large number of Americans actually believe that Trump is a traitor despite having zero basis to believe so.
His motivations will forever remain a mystery. Sick and disturbing. Also reported that the shooter asked if the people practicing were Republicans or Democrats.
Gone are the days I might have thought the same crowd on the record that Trump encourages violence would apply the same standards to assassination porn, traitor talk, and all the rest.
|
United States43971 Posts
On June 15 2017 01:09 Reaps wrote:
For me, the definition of terrorism is anything with a political or religious motive.
This attack is obviously political, i'd have no problem calling it a terrorist attack.
Surely war has a political element to it. At the very least you need to add the qualifier that it must involve non state agents. And I'm assuming that by anything you mean any violence.
|
On June 15 2017 01:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:09 Reaps wrote:
For me, the definition of terrorism is anything with a political or religious motive.
This attack is obviously political, i'd have no problem calling it a terrorist attack. Surely war has a political element to it. At the very least you need to add the qualifier that it must involve non state agents. And I'm assuming that by anything you mean any violence.
Ye of course.
He didn't just attack the congressman though did he, he also targeted other people.
|
The last time something like this happened...
* The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president
* The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs)
* The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president
In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism.
|
that was one incident in 1954. seems a bit old to be comparing it to now.
Nobody died and they all served 24 years in jail.
|
United States43971 Posts
On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism.
Very worried? Really? You don't think you might be reading a little much into this?
Also do you really think 1954 was the last time someone shot at a politician? Because it seems an awful lot like you're reading clippings from a fake news facebook forward devoted to calling Democrats terrorists. Maybe engage some critical thinking for a second and remember that Americans have been shooting at their politicians since there has been an America.
|
On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism.
Nicely done, you took a complex political issue from our history, stripped it of nuance and then used it to attack people who don't agree with you. You are, in every way, part of the problem.
|
On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism.
You appear to have left out the important context that they appear to have shot representatives of both parties indiscriminately, and that their pardon occured 25-odd years later (and as far as I can see doesn't have anything in particular to do with the fact that the president responsible was a Democrat).
|
On June 15 2017 01:23 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
that was one incident in 1954. seems a bit old to be comparing it to now
You have a point. On one hand, it's hard to believe something like the '54 shooting could ever happen again. On the other hand, it was hard to believe that Trump's brand of ideology could take root so quickly.
|
On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism.
Are you forgetting when Gabrielle Giffords got shot in the head and the person killed six other people? That seems like the closest parallel in recent history, unless I missed something more recent.
|
On June 15 2017 01:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism. Nicely done, you took a complex political issue from our history, stripped it of nuance and then used it to attack people who don't agree with you. You are, in every way, part of the problem.
Quick Google shows Carter perhaps released them in exchange for imprisoned CIA folk in Cuba. Says gov't denied it, but why else would they release them? I'm sure Bucky would have us think it was to show support for the murder of Republicans, but I don't think people release terrorist nuts for nothing in the US.
|
On June 15 2017 01:09 Reaps wrote:
For me, the definition of terrorism is anything with a political or religious motive.
This attack is obviously political, i'd have no problem calling it a terrorist attack.
I guess french resistants during the war were terrorists then.
Oh wait that's exactly what the nazis called them.
"Terrorist" is a word that is both way too broad and way too charged of meaning. Terrorist basically means "someone using violence that one doesn't like." It's not a very helpful concept.
|
I'm more confused this doesn't happen more often. Is there not a lot of security around these things? Pelosi, Ryan and other big political names have to go get groceries and stuff. I'm surprised random crack heads don't end up yelling some anarchy stuff and then stabbing them. How well protected are congressman?
There are some people out there with such a deep, deep hatred for Ryan/Pelosi that I am surprised this is the first big profile thing.
|
On June 15 2017 01:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism. Nicely done, you took a complex political issue from our history, stripped it of nuance and then used it to attack people who don't agree with you. You are, in every way, part of the problem.
Pot meet kettle.
EDIT: Note: I do not disagree that it is a terribly stupid way of arguing.
|
On June 15 2017 01:30 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:25 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism. Nicely done, you took a complex political issue from our history, stripped it of nuance and then used it to attack people who don't agree with you. You are, in every way, part of the problem. Quick Google shows Carter perhaps released them in exchange for imprisoned CIA folk in Cuba. Says gov't denied it, but why else would they release them? I'm sure Bucky would have us think it was to show support for the murder of Republicans, but I don't think people release terrorist nuts for nothing in the US.
They were not pardoned for no reason, that is for sure. The fact that they were returned home is telling that some deal was worked out.
|
I suppose the FBI are on top of most of the obvious crazy nuts and personal security is also quite good at preventing dangerous encounters. Not to mention that most citizens likely know Jack shit about who's in Congress beyond maybe their state representatives
|
On June 15 2017 01:13 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:19 xDaunt wrote:On June 15 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:
I’m straight up nervous about how Trump’s crew will spin this. They could really ratchet up the tension if they say “look it was a democrat”. Funny you mention that: The gunman who opened fire this morning on Republican congressmen and staffers recently declared in a Facebook post that, “It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”
Hodgkinson, a Belleville, Illinois resident, has worked as a home inspector. Source. I can't really say that I am surprised given what the media has been pumping into the American public since Trump's election. I'm sure that a disturbingly large number of Americans actually believe that Trump is a traitor despite having zero basis to believe so. His motivations will forever remain a mystery. Sick and disturbing. Also reported that the shooter asked if the people practicing were Republicans or Democrats. https://twitter.com/BigMeanInternet/status/874972869150859265Gone are the days I might have thought the same crowd on the record that Trump encourages violence would apply the same standards to assassination porn, traitor talk, and all the rest. https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/875007676291444736
I'm not exactly sure what people thought would happen when the media has been openly fomenting quasi-revolutionary sentiment against Trump. Fake news has a cost, which I have been arguing all along. My only surprise is that it took this long for some lunatic to act on it.
And the whataboutism appeal to liken this to birtherism is pathetic, both intellectually and in practicality. Birtherism never had the scope and size of this Russia collusion nonsense. It didn't have nearly the same permeation into public and cultural consciousness. Not even close. There was never the equivalent of a late night TV show host calling the president Putin's cock holster.
|
On June 15 2017 01:32 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:25 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2017 01:22 Buckyman wrote:The last time something like this happened... * The shooters were pardoned by a Democratic president * The situation eventually escalated into mass domestic terrorism via bombings (100+ bombs) * The bombers were also pardoned by a different Democratic president In sum, I am now very worried about left-wing domestic terrorism. Nicely done, you took a complex political issue from our history, stripped it of nuance and then used it to attack people who don't agree with you. You are, in every way, part of the problem. Pot meet kettle. EDIT: Note: I do not disagree that it is a terribly stupid way of arguing.
Hey look, its our favorite posters who's sole output is talking down to other posters when they don't meet his standards. Nice to see you. Glad to see you are trolling the forums looking for posts to call out.
Edit: Some posts are so lazy they are not worth the effort. Buckyman's is one of those. He posted the context for what took place in his own post, which he apparently failed to read.
|
On June 15 2017 00:54 Moobutt wrote:
Trump just delivered a statement from the WH.
He looked pretty upset. Which is quite understandable. The number 3 guy in the Republican-held House just got shot.
I actually just did a bit of wikipedia research on the subject... Scalise might be the highest ranking member of Congress to ever be shot. That's actually so insane.
being in congress is alot safer than being president. I wonder why crazies so rarely go after congress
|
United States43971 Posts
On June 15 2017 01:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 01:13 Danglars wrote:On June 15 2017 00:19 xDaunt wrote:On June 15 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:
I’m straight up nervous about how Trump’s crew will spin this. They could really ratchet up the tension if they say “look it was a democrat”. Funny you mention that: The gunman who opened fire this morning on Republican congressmen and staffers recently declared in a Facebook post that, “It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”
Hodgkinson, a Belleville, Illinois resident, has worked as a home inspector. Source. I can't really say that I am surprised given what the media has been pumping into the American public since Trump's election. I'm sure that a disturbingly large number of Americans actually believe that Trump is a traitor despite having zero basis to believe so. His motivations will forever remain a mystery. Sick and disturbing. Also reported that the shooter asked if the people practicing were Republicans or Democrats. https://twitter.com/BigMeanInternet/status/874972869150859265Gone are the days I might have thought the same crowd on the record that Trump encourages violence would apply the same standards to assassination porn, traitor talk, and all the rest. https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/875007676291444736 I'm not exactly sure what people thought would happen when the media has been openly fomenting quasi-revolutionary sentiment against Trump. Fake news has a cost, which I have been arguing all along. My only surprise is that it took this long for some lunatic to act on it. And the whataboutism appeal to liken this to birtherism is pathetic, both intellectually and in practicality. Birtherism never had the scope and size of this Russia collusion nonsense. It didn't have nearly the same permeation into public and cultural consciousness. Not even close. There was never the equivalent of a late night TV show host calling the president Putin's cock holster.
When the California National Guard is called out to stop Trump using the military to take over the government of the United States then the anti-Trump hysteria will have topped the anti-Obama hysteria. Until that day comes your side is still the reigning champion of the lunatic games.
Furthermore Trump is literally a fake news President. His rise is fueled entirely by the kind of fake news you now criticize, birtherism was his entry to politics, insanity like the wall, Chinese climate change hoaxes, retweeted Nazi crime statistics and so forth is his policy base.
Your hypocrisy on this shit is staggering.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
