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On June 15 2017 00:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:
I’m straight up nervous about how Trump’s crew will spin this. They could really ratchet up the tension if they say “look it was a democrat”. Funny you mention that: Show nested quote +The gunman who opened fire this morning on Republican congressmen and staffers recently declared in a Facebook post that, “It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”
Hodgkinson, a Belleville, Illinois resident, has worked as a home inspector. Source. I can't really say that I am surprised given what the media has been pumping into the American public since Trump's election. I'm sure that a disturbingly large number of Americans actually believe that Trump is a traitor despite having zero basis to believe so.
I have full confidence we could go back and find a plethora of comments by you to the same effect for all the right-wing politically motivated violent acts that have been committed in the past year.
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On June 15 2017 00:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:04 Plansix wrote:
I’m straight up nervous about how Trump’s crew will spin this. They could really ratchet up the tension if they say “look it was a democrat”. Funny you mention that: Show nested quote +The gunman who opened fire this morning on Republican congressmen and staffers recently declared in a Facebook post that, “It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”
Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”
Hodgkinson, a Belleville, Illinois resident, has worked as a home inspector. Source. I can't really say that I am surprised given what the media has been pumping into the American public since Trump's election. I'm sure that a disturbingly large number of Americans actually believe that Trump is a traitor despite having zero basis to believe so.
There were a large number of Americans that believed Obama wasn’t a US citizen, even with zero evidence to believe that. You are correct that broadcast media and the internet has given up the ghost of any responsibility for what they post and broadcast. Including the source you just posted.
Remember: To this day the parents of the children killed at Sandy Hook receive death threats because of Alex Jones.
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The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is.
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On June 15 2017 00:28 NewSunshine wrote:
The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is.
It doesn't matter how crazy it is. People don't care about the logic of it, it's the same thing that determines so much of US politics now, "can I use this to stick it to Liberals?" If the answer is yes a large number of people will go with it.
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On June 15 2017 00:41 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:28 NewSunshine wrote:
The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is. It doesn't matter how crazy it is. People don't care about the logic of it, it's the same thing that determines so much of US politics now, "can I use this to stick it to Liberals?" If the answer is yes a large number of people will go with it.
Oh, I know, still I feel it needs mentioning. Maybe one day someone questions himself, and the discourse improves ever so slightly.
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Could he have been a terrorist? I know it sounds ludicrous because he sounds pretty white. But maybe if we call it extreme liberal terrorism, that would be okay?
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On June 15 2017 00:41 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:28 NewSunshine wrote:
The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is. It doesn't matter how crazy it is. People don't care about the logic of it, it's the same thing that determines so much of US politics now, "can I use this to stick it to Liberals?" If the answer is yes a large number of people will go with it.
The worst part is that is how our leaders in congress often respond as well. It looks like Ryan and Pelosi will be addressing this shooting at noon during a join conference. Maybe we will be lucky and no one will ramp up the rhetoric. But I have my concern about the less responsible members of Trumps staff, like Conway. Hopefully no one puts a mic in her face.
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On June 15 2017 00:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
Could he have been a terrorist? I know it sounds ludicrous because he sounds pretty white. But maybe if we call it extreme liberal terrorism, that would be okay?
Have fun finding a definition of terrorism everyone agrees upon. It's almost as difficult as finding a definition of racism everyone agrees upon. I don't think any and all assassins with political targets are terrorists, per se, but they fall under the dictionary definition if not the UN definition.
If his aim was to terrify Republicans everywhere that liberals could be gunning for them, he falls squarely into the terrorist camp though. We'll see how it unfolds.
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On June 15 2017 00:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
Could he have been a terrorist? I know it sounds ludicrous because he sounds pretty white. But maybe if we call it extreme liberal terrorism, that would be okay?
Ya if they had a faction with a unified purpose and a propaganda arm aiming to spread throughout the world, it would be more than appropriate to call them that.
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United States42654 Posts
On June 15 2017 00:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
Could he have been a terrorist? I know it sounds ludicrous because he sounds pretty white. But maybe if we call it extreme liberal terrorism, that would be okay?
If he exclusively targeted government officials and the organs of the state then terrorist doesn't really fit in my opinion. Terrorists target civilians to try and get the people afraid. Revolutionaries target the government to try and depose it. Our brave and self starting second amendment comrade at the baseball game was a highly incompetent revolutionary, not a terrorist.
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On June 15 2017 00:28 NewSunshine wrote:
The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is.
My guess is someone who would get hit heavily by the ACHA and obviously not mentally sound to begin with.
When you set out to destroy peoples lives your going to make them upset. and some portion of them may be unstable enough to try and stop you through violence.
Note, that doesn't mean I condone violence, I hope everyone will be ok and I'm glad he got caught so he can face justice.
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On June 15 2017 00:50 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2017 00:28 NewSunshine wrote:
The mere belief that Trump is a traitor does not make one barge into a baseball game and start shooting people, nor does being a self-identified Democrat, or being against Trump. It's completely unrelated to the matter at hand. Anyone with a modicum of self-control and mental health would stop and realize how crazy that is. My guess is someone who would get hit heavily by the ACHA and obviously not mentally sound to begin with. When you set out to destroy peoples lives your going to make them upset. and some portion of them may be unstable enough to try and stop you through violence. Note, that doesn't mean I condone violence, I hope everyone will be ok and I'm glad he got caught so he can face justice.
Well, he got "justice" depending on how you view it.
Speaking from the White House, President Donald Trump said the "assailant" was dead. Trump praised Scalise as "a patriot" and said he had spoken to the congressman's wife, Jennifer, and offered his full support.
Source: CBC
I'd be worried this incident will lead to paranoid nuts on both sides reaching more into the us-vs-them war rhetoric.
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Trump just delivered a statement from the WH.
He looked pretty upset. Which is quite understandable. The number 3 guy in the Republican-held House just got shot.
I actually just did a bit of wikipedia research on the subject... Scalise might be the highest ranking member of Congress to ever be shot. That's actually so insane.
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We will see. It has been a very long time since we had sustained violence against elected officials/government institutions to due policy changes. I’m pretty pessimistic about congress, but maybe they will wrap their brains around the concept that demonizing your opponents constantly has consequences.
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I'd hope that this would be an opportunity to have people unite and scale back the crazy us v. them war time mentality, bit I can only imagine this is just going to make it worse.
God I hate crazy violent nuts. From any and everywhere. The congressman are injured and not dead, right?
EDIT: to keep it mildly political, how do you all think this is going to affect local elections? I know VA had our gubernatorial election yesterday and the Trumpist lost, and the Berniecrat lost, both in favor of more centrist candidates. Think this will cause a loss to the Berniecrat side of things and an increase to the Trumpist?
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For me, the definition of terrorism is anything with a political or religious motive.
This attack is obviously political, i'd have no problem calling it a terrorist attack.
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Canada13389 Posts
I wonder whether this is the result of
1) a group of crazies who dont like politicians
2) a retaliatory anti liberal angry person because shooter was a democrat
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On June 15 2017 00:44 Broetchenholer wrote:
Could he have been a terrorist? I know it sounds ludicrous because he sounds pretty white. But maybe if we call it extreme liberal terrorism, that would be okay?
Gotta Trump it up more. Radical Secular Liberal Terrorism. RSLT, in short.
In a related flippant manner, Republicans have taught me that this is the result of a mentally deranged lone wolf. Thoughts and prayers.
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On June 15 2017 01:10 ZeromuS wrote: I wonder whether this is the result of 1) a group of crazies who dont like politicians 2) a retaliatory anti liberal angry person because shooter was a democrat
I am pretty sure it's the latter, though we'll obviously never know.
On June 15 2017 01:09 Reaps wrote:
For me, the definition of terrorism is anything with a political or religious motive.
This attack is obviously political, i'd have no problem calling it a terrorist attack.
I'm not a big fan of an umbrella that big, just because I'm not sure it makes sense to call guerillas or coup executors who do not target any civilians terrorists. Kind of blurs the line, especially if we want to be universally condemning terrorism as a bad thing.
(of course, this is precisely what the UN has fought over internally for years)
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EPT
