In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
PORTLAND, Ore. — Two people died and one person was injured following a stabbing attack inside a MAX train Friday afternoon. Police were called to the Hollywood Transit Center in Northeast Portland around 4:30 p.m. One man was pronounced dead at the scene and another man was hospitalized but was quickly pronounced dead. A third person had non-life threatening injuries.
Witnesses say triple stabbing aboard MAX train started as a hate crime attack
Prior to the attack, police say the suspect was yelling hateful statements at two Muslim girls, one of whom was wearing a hijab. His speech was not specifically anti-Muslim and his behavior was erratic, Portland Police Bureau Sgt. Pete Simpson said.
The suspect then stabbed two bystanders who attempted to de-escalate the situation, police confirmed. A third person was stabbed as well.
"When the train stopped moving, the guy who stabbed them was cursing and he said, 'This is free America, I can do whatever I want,'" a witness said.
The suspect hasn't been named but police described him as a white man between the ages of 20 and 40 years old.
Sure this will generate far more attention than some stupid restaurant story...
There are entire media networks (Sinclair Broadcasting, Breitbart, FOX, Murdoch papers) dedicated to pimping articles that show that pluralism has gone to far and that liberalism is threatening white people. Papers dedicated to white vigilante violence? Not so much.
EDIT: yeah, I really wish white vigilante violence, actual killings, would be bigger news than pluralism scare stories. But I worry that within the conservative entertainment universe these killings will be marginalized over more pluralism scare stories.
On May 27 2017 16:00 GreenHorizons wrote: Meanwhile in Portland....
PORTLAND, Ore. — Two people died and one person was injured following a stabbing attack inside a MAX train Friday afternoon. Police were called to the Hollywood Transit Center in Northeast Portland around 4:30 p.m. One man was pronounced dead at the scene and another man was hospitalized but was quickly pronounced dead. A third person had non-life threatening injuries.
Witnesses say triple stabbing aboard MAX train started as a hate crime attack
Prior to the attack, police say the suspect was yelling hateful statements at two Muslim girls, one of whom was wearing a hijab. His speech was not specifically anti-Muslim and his behavior was erratic, Portland Police Bureau Sgt. Pete Simpson said.
The suspect then stabbed two bystanders who attempted to de-escalate the situation, police confirmed. A third person was stabbed as well.
"When the train stopped moving, the guy who stabbed them was cursing and he said, 'This is free America, I can do whatever I want,'" a witness said.
The suspect hasn't been named but police described him as a white man between the ages of 20 and 40 years old.
Sure this will generate far more attention than some stupid restaurant story...
There are entire media networks (Sinclair Broadcasting, Breitbart, FOX, Murdoch papers) dedicated to pimping articles that show that pluralism has gone to far and that liberalism is threatening white people. Papers dedicated to white vigilante violence? Not so much.
EDIT: yeah, I really wish white vigilante violence, actual killings, would be bigger news than pluralism scare stories. But I worry that within the conservative entertainment universe these killings will be marginalized over more pluralism scare stories.
Forget the conservative entertainment universe, this will get buried in anonymous rumors/leaks about the Trump administration on every network (probably here too).
On May 27 2017 12:19 Leporello wrote: Everything points to Trump being a profoundly simple person, with one crystal-clear motive: himself.
It explains almost everything. He is extremely predictable. Except... why is he still President? Why doesn't he find a reason, say "health", to just retire, stepdown, be a comfortable billionaire? In terms of money, respect, legacy, etc. -- he'd be better off stepping away from all this right now.
So why isn't he? Love of country and service? No, of course not.
Blackmail. It's the only explanation as to why a man like Trump is going to ride this train until it falls off the rails. Money doesn't explain it. Trump is losing everything -- and Trump hates losing. He'd much rather call "bankruptcy" on something and move on. But here, he's caught, because he can't run away, and yet he can't keep going.
I'm saying that Steele Dossier was real. Very real. That was a genuine intelligence-effort by a genuine intelligence-agent, and we all kind of just ignored it. But believe it, the piss tape is real, and god damn it, the world needs to see it... or at least be able to acknowledge its heinous existence.
Just had to put this theory down somewhere.
I dont think you quite understand the ego Donald Trump has. He believes he is smarter then anyone else in the room on any issue at any time. He believes his own bullshit and the reason he got so easily baited on the Comey thing was because he could not bear to let the public that someone else was making a decision it HAD to be his decision because he is the man who decides things.
If Donald Trump were impeached by the house and was told the Senate had 98 votes to convict he still would not step down thinking he could change all their minds easily. This is the level of arrogance that he possesses and I can not understate it enough. He is very predictable if you simply assume that he is a compulsive liar who will say anything to make him look good but also will believe his own nonsense, but he is not nearly as clever or smart as he thinks he is. I have thought that of him for months and have not been surprised by a single thing that has happened because of it.
Donald is arrogant, but he isn't actually a complete, total buffoon. Donald Trump knows when to quit something. A lot of his "success" in business is knowing when to quit. He has an ego -- but that's what lets him quit. He is perfectly capable of walking away from anything with his head held high, and a truckload of excuses.
I'd also like to point that literally everything else but the piss-tape in the Steele Dossier has basically been verified over time, and that dossier was released a long time ago. It predicted what we've seen so far.
I'd bet good money the piss-tape is real. I don't know if it being released would be a good thing for the world, but...
When he talks about anything he has "quit" he talks about how great he was at it and how great a deal he made. His airline failed and he brags about selling it for far less then he put in and his entire career is basically lined with similar options. The reason he has so many Russians connections is because American institutions were not financing him and not because of the economic crisis.
Tony Schwartz, Trump's ghostwriter for "Art of the Deal", says that he's going to find a way to resign and claim victory in the process. He has a very similar outlook on this to yours.
This actually is the same point I was making.
He's had a way to walk away from the Presidency on something of a self-claimed high-note. Claim the cultural victory, the mandate, and claim you're leaving the dirty-work to more experienced hands. He hasn't done this, yet I'm sure the thought has passed his mind numerous times. And by now, the opportunity might be gone.
He did not do the Donald Trump thing. And he isn't trying to deflect. Whatever motive he has for Russia was on BRAZEN display in his meeting with NATO. The motive is still ongoing.
If the motive was simply money, it wouldn't really hold at this point. The trade-off to what he's going to lose, added to the loss of reputation, just would not be worth it. This is ALL about his ego. This is about blackmail, the Steele dossier piss-tape. If it were anything else, he'd just quit. In my humble opinion.
On May 27 2017 13:58 Wulfey_LA wrote: When it comes to Trump-Russia, there are three separate things you can consider.
(1) Russian active measures in 2016 election (2) President Trump obstructing Russia probe in 2017 (3) Trump-Russia collusion during 2016
(1) and (2) can be true without (3) also being true. Nobody has to prove (3). We need an independent commission for (1) and the special counsel / Comey have (2) under control. Number (3) is often beaten up as a straw man but it isn't really the story anymore.
In what category does Kushner setting up a secret communication line with Russia because he trusts them more than the American channels fall?
It could be a pretty big story, but it could also mean very little. It might fall in the 3rd category simply based on the wording and the fact that it happened in 2016 (although after the election), but may exclude any nefarious intent that is implied by the 3rd category. It could not represent the missing link of collusion pre-election, because it happened after the results were in. It might be a follow-up to any hypothetical pre-election collusion, though.
It's really hard to discern the gravity of the situation from the information we were given by the anonymous letter sent to the Washington Post, which was confirmed to be truthful by anonymous officials (who probably did not write the letter?).
I'm inclined to think it was all just Flynn being his typical paranoid conspiracy theorist self.
On May 27 2017 12:19 Leporello wrote: Everything points to Trump being a profoundly simple person, with one crystal-clear motive: himself.
It explains almost everything. He is extremely predictable. Except... why is he still President? Why doesn't he find a reason, say "health", to just retire, stepdown, be a comfortable billionaire? In terms of money, respect, legacy, etc. -- he'd be better off stepping away from all this right now.
So why isn't he? Love of country and service? No, of course not.
Blackmail. It's the only explanation as to why a man like Trump is going to ride this train until it falls off the rails. Money doesn't explain it. Trump is losing everything -- and Trump hates losing. He'd much rather call "bankruptcy" on something and move on. But here, he's caught, because he can't run away, and yet he can't keep going.
I'm saying that Steele Dossier was real. Very real. That was a genuine intelligence-effort by a genuine intelligence-agent, and we all kind of just ignored it. But believe it, the piss tape is real, and god damn it, the world needs to see it... or at least be able to acknowledge its heinous existence.
Just had to put this theory down somewhere.
I dont think you quite understand the ego Donald Trump has. He believes he is smarter then anyone else in the room on any issue at any time. He believes his own bullshit and the reason he got so easily baited on the Comey thing was because he could not bear to let the public that someone else was making a decision it HAD to be his decision because he is the man who decides things.
If Donald Trump were impeached by the house and was told the Senate had 98 votes to convict he still would not step down thinking he could change all their minds easily. This is the level of arrogance that he possesses and I can not understate it enough. He is very predictable if you simply assume that he is a compulsive liar who will say anything to make him look good but also will believe his own nonsense, but he is not nearly as clever or smart as he thinks he is. I have thought that of him for months and have not been surprised by a single thing that has happened because of it.
Donald is arrogant, but he isn't actually a complete, total buffoon. Donald Trump knows when to quit something. A lot of his "success" in business is knowing when to quit. He has an ego -- but that's what lets him quit. He is perfectly capable of walking away from anything with his head held high, and a truckload of excuses.
I'd also like to point that literally everything else but the piss-tape in the Steele Dossier has basically been verified over time, and that dossier was released a long time ago. It predicted what we've seen so far.
I'd bet good money the piss-tape is real. I don't know if it being released would be a good thing for the world, but...
When he talks about anything he has "quit" he talks about how great he was at it and how great a deal he made. His airline failed and he brags about selling it for far less then he put in and his entire career is basically lined with similar options. The reason he has so many Russians connections is because American institutions were not financing him and not because of the economic crisis.
Tony Schwartz, Trump's ghostwriter for "Art of the Deal", says that he's going to find a way to resign and claim victory in the process. He has a very similar outlook on this to yours.
This actually is the same point I was making.
He's had a way to walk away from the Presidency on something of a self-claimed high-note. Claim the cultural victory, the mandate, and claim you're leaving the dirty-work to more experienced hands. He hasn't done this, yet I'm sure the thought has passed his mind numerous times. And by now, the opportunity might be gone.
He did not do the Donald Trump thing. And he isn't trying to deflect. Whatever motive he has for Russia was on BRAZEN display in his meeting with NATO. The motive is still ongoing.
If the motive was simply money, it wouldn't really hold at this point. The trade-off to what he's going to lose, added to the loss of reputation, just would not be worth it. This is ALL about his ego. This is about blackmail, the Steele dossier piss-tape. If it were anything else, he'd just quit. In my humble opinion.
He needed a win to claim the moral high road and walk away and he has not had a single win. No Healthcare law, no tax law, nothing, zilch, nada.
His ego won't let him walk away without some form of win but he managed to screw up so badly in under 100 days that he is not going to be able to accomplish anything.
Remember the "breaking news" from a few days ago that americans alies might stop sharing security information with the usa after trump shared details with the rusian ambassador?
Now some countries are seriously considering to do this. Not because of trump but because of the NYT. This off course is not "breaking news" and no scandal, and this barely gets attention.
On May 27 2017 20:13 pmh wrote: Remember the "breaking news" from a few days ago that americans alies might stop sharing security information with the usa after trump shared details with the rusian ambassador?
Now some countries are seriously considering to do this. Not because of trump but because of the NYT. This off course is not "breaking news" and no scandal, and this barely gets attention.
That news link doesn't suggest that American allies are pulling intelligence solely because of the New York Times, like what you're suggesting.
In the case of the Russia meetings, its because of the leaks that suggest that Donald Trump did what they exactly don't want him to do: share intelligence without consultation and in the proper channels.
In the case of the Manchester bombing leaks, its because the Trump Administration is unable to prevent leaks from occurring.
In both cases, there's a common line: the Trump Administration can barely be trusted with sensitive information from the most junior worker to the President of the United States himself.
You have to ask: why are people leaking so much information to the press? There's a lot of indication that it isn't only the DEEP STATE who want to take down Donald Trump. There's a lot of indication people like Bannon are also leaking info to the press, especially with regards to Kushner-related leaks. Such is the life when you intentionally create an administration with deep divisions where Kushner-Priebus-Bannon/Miller are all power players who are vying for influence and all don't like each other.
The hypocrisy displayed by posters criticizing others who actually engage in making the world a better place by calling their efforts not worth it due to "bigger problems" is sickening
On May 27 2017 20:13 pmh wrote: Remember the "breaking news" from a few days ago that americans alies might stop sharing security information with the usa after trump shared details with the rusian ambassador?
Now some countries are seriously considering to do this. Not because of trump but because of the NYT. This off course is not "breaking news" and no scandal, and this barely gets attention.
This was pretty much in every news outlet in europe, so i'm not sure where your "doesn't get attention" comes from. It's also not "some countries", but the UK. As it clearly says in the very article you linked, too - so i'm assuming you deliberately try to blow it out of proportion, which is idiotic considering you link the very article that debunks it.
It also is about sharing information about the Manchester attack. That's british police not sharing information. It's NOT "britain not sharing security information with the US", which is what happened when trump mouth-diarrhoead sensitive information.
It's funny that you trumpets blast every fucking article about trump as fake news but can't even get your facts straight if you guys are the ones linking something for an argument.
The UK has now decided to suspend the sharing of information with America on Monday’s blast.
On May 27 2017 12:19 Leporello wrote: Everything points to Trump being a profoundly simple person, with one crystal-clear motive: himself.
It explains almost everything. He is extremely predictable. Except... why is he still President? Why doesn't he find a reason, say "health", to just retire, stepdown, be a comfortable billionaire? In terms of money, respect, legacy, etc. -- he'd be better off stepping away from all this right now.
So why isn't he? Love of country and service? No, of course not.
Blackmail. It's the only explanation as to why a man like Trump is going to ride this train until it falls off the rails. Money doesn't explain it. Trump is losing everything -- and Trump hates losing. He'd much rather call "bankruptcy" on something and move on. But here, he's caught, because he can't run away, and yet he can't keep going.
I'm saying that Steele Dossier was real. Very real. That was a genuine intelligence-effort by a genuine intelligence-agent, and we all kind of just ignored it. But believe it, the piss tape is real, and god damn it, the world needs to see it... or at least be able to acknowledge its heinous existence.
Just had to put this theory down somewhere.
I'm with the people disagreeing with you; his ego is too big, it won't let him. he needs to save the US with his l33t negotiating skillz. I also think now isn't a time when he can easily retire without everyone regarding it as him losing.
On May 27 2017 13:58 Wulfey_LA wrote: When it comes to Trump-Russia, there are three separate things you can consider.
(1) Russian active measures in 2016 election (2) President Trump obstructing Russia probe in 2017 (3) Trump-Russia collusion during 2016
(1) and (2) can be true without (3) also being true. Nobody has to prove (3). We need an independent commission for (1) and the special counsel / Comey have (2) under control. Number (3) is often beaten up as a straw man but it isn't really the story anymore.
In what category does Kushner setting up a secret communication line with Russia because he trusts them more than the American channels fall?
Now yes, Kushner trying to use Russian communication equipment to avoid the NSA with Flynn watching him say this is for sure the best evidence yet of (3) Russia Collusion. This warrants significant investigation. But as a Dem, I fear Dems will overplay this and read to hard into it too fast. (1) and (2) are good, strong arguments. (3) is still subject to the "but where is the evidence" epistemology defenses.
EDIT: to put this another way, Trump cannot possibly be removed from office from either (1) or (3). So I am really interested in (2) President Trump obstructing Russia probe in 2017. In the Kushner case, we have him lying on his forms about all these Russia contacts and Trump covering for him. That is good stuff. Trump could get in actual legal jeopardy for that if the investigation closes in on Kushner and Trump keeps trying to cover for him.
But even if we manage to prove that (3) Trump is totally colluding with the Russians and they have all kinds of leverage over him (as Trump's dissing of Article V at the recent NATO summit strongly suggests), that isn't enough to get him tossed from office. It will help at the midterms for sure and be a maybe decent argument during his reelection. But even then, if Dems prioritize hitting Trump over (3) instead of AHCA, the Trump budget, the betrayal of our Western allies, the entire administration of Wall Street beasts then we are making a mistake.
Here's the video of police shooting the white guy who stabbed three people (killed two) on the MAX in Portland after verbally assaulting two young Muslim girls and threatening police.
On May 28 2017 00:44 ShoCkeyy wrote: GH no one got shot in the video? ;l
I think the point was that his life was sparred (after actually killing people already) whereas a black dude simply existing in the wrong neighborhood has been enough for a black dude to be killed.
On May 28 2017 00:44 ShoCkeyy wrote: GH no one got shot in the video? ;l
Exactly.
So your point is what exactly? That you can find videos of police not shooting white people. I can find videos of police not shooting people of all colors but most of the posts reek of confirmation bias which is a thing that massively hinders fighting against racism in america. When I say that I mean that not every action against a minority is based on race but when those that are not are called racism and are lumped with the ones that are it taints the entire pool so suddenly everyone stops listening. It was the same problem i posted about almost a year ago when I said the term racist is being overused to apply to pretty every single mispoken line someone says and it taints everything.
Its harder now to truly ostracize racists from modern society when everything is being called racial even when it is not. Not every police shooting is a murder but many of the ones that get focused on are not the problem ones.
On May 28 2017 00:44 ShoCkeyy wrote: GH no one got shot in the video? ;l
Exactly.
I agree its ridiculous black people always end up being shot in places like Chicago/LA/NY and the south but if the Portland police can confront people and not shoot them then that is a good thing.
A quick google search shows the Portland police are probably not the ones to make some claim about race with
I mean according to this video by the Oregonian - of the 16 people they shot last year only one was black. 15 were white.
And a good chunk of them got into some sort of armed confrontation with the police and not just a standoff.
So in this case. Please don't pull the race card out for the police.
The guy with the knife was racist and he was an asshole -- the police in Portland appear to be pretty reasonable from my quick search compared to the police in other places that are regularly in the news.
EPT
