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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 25 2017 15:38 GMT
#152701
On May 26 2017 00:38 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Heads up, Paul Ryan speaking.

What's the topic?


Shaming the poor into deciding to be the CEO of a large tech company.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 25 2017 15:39 GMT
#152702
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-25 15:45:09
May 25 2017 15:42 GMT
#152703
On May 26 2017 00:28 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:14 KwarK wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:07 brian wrote:
can anyone explain why that would ever be construed as an unreasonable little speech? seems like the most sensible few words he's strung together. but i don't know any nuances that may be involved wrt NATO

There isn't a 2% contribution rule, there certainly is no suggestion that anyone might owe another country money for it, there is no mechanism for Trump to collect on a debt nor any mechanism by which that debt would even exist, there is no reason to use total US defence spending as a comparison to NATO (NATO covers the North Atlantic, the US has other alliances like SEATO, for every dollar the US spends in any region on any project they seem to want to go to each alliance and say "that dollar benefited you somehow, match me" and that's fucking retarded). If US completely pulled out of the North Atlantic their military spending would still be high enough for them to insist that they're carrying too much of the burden. The subtext of this speech is "we spent all our money fucking up the Middle East and causing the refugee crisis and you didn't spend any money doing that so here's a bill so you can share the cost, you're welcome".

Not only does he have no idea how NATO works, he's actually got together a group of leaders of American allies so he can collectively make a total idiot of himself in front of them because the desired audience of his speech isn't them, it's the American public, most of whom know even less than he does. Literally nothing will come of this speech other than some minor civil servant in each of the NATO governments drafting a letter to the Trump administration explaining how NATO works.

i mean i have no doubt he's insinuated it before but nowhere in that speech did i hear him suggest any member owes the united states money.

just because there's no 2% rules doesn't make it an unreasonable goal? and again, he didn't suggest member nations match the US by any metric?

like i said, i'm working from this one video alone. so if this happened else wise i understand. but i'm definitely not seeing any of this here.

He printed up a cringeworthy invoice for Germany to pay the US back for all the defence spending the US has done on Germany's behalf and gave it to Merkel. Merkel presumably told him it was great and that she would put it on the fridge so that everyone could see how well he was doing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nato-invoice-made-up-300-million-angela-merkel-white-house-meeting-germany-a7651521.html

He's been talking about this stuff for a while. About how much the US spends compared to NATO members and how NATO members aren't meeting the 2% rule and how NATO members need to pay the US back and how maybe the US will renege on NATO obligations should a NATO member be attacked. It's all fucking retarded. He also at one point said that NATO was obsolete in a world where the threat comes from terrorism and that the US doesn't get anything out of it. This is odd given NATO has been invoked exactly one time, by the US, following 9/11.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 25 2017 15:44 GMT
#152704
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 25 2017 15:47 GMT
#152705
On May 26 2017 00:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/867767683281960961


Can anyone right-leaning on this board explain to me why the CBO report is even slightly encouraging?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 25 2017 15:48 GMT
#152706
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 25 2017 15:52 GMT
#152707
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 25 2017 15:55 GMT
#152708
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

Be in your mid 20-30s forever, never get married, never buy a house, never get sick, let other family members handle emergencies, work 10 hour days forever.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-25 15:56:36
May 25 2017 15:55 GMT
#152709
On May 26 2017 00:47 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/867767683281960961


Can anyone right-leaning on this board explain to me why the CBO report is even slightly encouraging?


They don't care about coverage. They only care about premium costs going down and increasing government savings, which this does kinda (If ur young and healthy mostly).

Coverage is whatever to them. Don't forget that if you forgoe that iPhone you can afford health insurance!
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 25 2017 15:57 GMT
#152710
If this passes, we need to start calling it the American Healthcare Genocide and accepting uncovered Americans as refugees in immediate threat to life
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 25 2017 15:58 GMT
#152711
The most amazing part of that statement is it ignores Apples ongoing efforts to keep Iphones affordable and provide people with tons of options to buy one at varying prices. I would love it if government treated healthcare like Apple treats it Iphones.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 25 2017 16:01 GMT
#152712
It's kind a great analogy, considering how woefully overpriced Iphones (or anything that Apple produces, for that matter) are, similarly to how the US healthcare is the most expensive in the world.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Ernaine
Profile Joined May 2017
60 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-25 18:01:21
May 25 2017 16:02 GMT
#152713
If this continues at this rate, it will end with Trump getting the death penalty for treason, his successor converting his execution to a life sentence, and Trump dying in jail.


The stupidity of Trump and the number of self-inflicted wounds and self-implications and accidental admissions of guilt by Trump is shocking, but also a big relief. If Trump was competent, he would have been so so much dangerous. He literally is a fascist-wannabe. Remove the legal and moral constraints he is under because of the US institutions, and the results would be shocking. He would literally jail or torture journalists.

It is just amazing to see him so oblivious to almost anything. Why does he keep provoking the Intel community to leak on Twitter? Why does he stand next to Netanyahu and he tells the media that it was Israel, but he hasn't told the Russians. Netanyahu must have just wanted to KO Trump then and there for his stupidity.

Not only did allies stop sharing Intel with the US. US Intel stopped sharing Intel with the White House. It is shocking. There must not be a single person even inside the White House that trusts Trump with anything. Let alone classified or sensitive information.

If the story about Duterte and the location of the nuclear submarines is true, the admirals must be so pissed. It means they can no longer tell Trump about the location of the US nuclear submarines. And even if it is false, the US admirals cannot be sure about that.


As for NATO defense spending. It is all about EU countries buying US military equipment and fueling the military industrial complex. If EU countries spend 2% buying their own military tech, or even China or Russia stuff, there is no point for the US anymore.

Let alone the costs EU countries have for the mess the US creates in the middle east. They have a point when they claim we have to pay a tax to them to cover the cost of all the refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 25 2017 16:03 GMT
#152714
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 25 2017 16:09 GMT
#152715
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9641 Posts
May 25 2017 16:10 GMT
#152716
On May 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.

yea i'm gonna half agree here that worrying about holding your job for your healthcare seems like you're having an exaggeratedly strange perspective here.

for those without any day to day health concerns, i'd have much bigger problems to worry about if i lost my job than where i'm getting my health insurance from.

for those with day to day health concerns i'd obviously prefer we had a ln affordable universal health care option. but for our reality in the mean time viewing your health insurance in this lens is disingenuous.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
May 25 2017 16:14 GMT
#152717
On May 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.




Ya its not like COBRA is expensive or anything
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 25 2017 16:17 GMT
#152718
On May 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.


Losing your job should not mean incurring an incidental charge in order to remain healthy and safe. That is fundamentally wrong.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
May 25 2017 16:20 GMT
#152719
On May 26 2017 01:14 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.




Ya its not like COBRA is expensive or anything


But you have plenty of extra money to cover an explosion in healthcare costs, being unemployed and all.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 25 2017 16:30 GMT
#152720
On May 26 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2017 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 26 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:
Ryan’s statements give me comfort. That he and the Republican House get exactly what they deserve around November of next year. My only hope is that they don’t pass any version of this nightmare bill.


Don't leave work early, dress well, stay assertive and keep your job. That's honestly the perspective I've been taking with regards to all this. Whatever you do, do not lose your job.

You can lose your job or change your job. Just make sure that you don't have any gaps in coverage by getting COBRA coverage between jobs.

Having done that song and dance more than once in the past, the COBRA should be handed out with a bunch to the throat. Because only with the immediate fear of choking to death does the price of that system seem acceptable.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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