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On May 17 2017 18:31 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 17:00 Grumbels wrote:On May 17 2017 13:05 Danglars wrote:On May 17 2017 12:48 Nevuk wrote:Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said on Tuesday that President Donald Trump should "close down the White House press briefing room.”
"I am personally offended by the American news media. I think it is destructive and disgusting. It is a danger to the country right now," Gingrich said. He also said the press should be banished to a nearby Starbucks and that Spicer should take questions from the American people. "Just say to the American people, you get to choose," Gingrich said.
Closing the press briefing room would send a message to the country "that the media is a corrupt institution and he is tired of being harassed by people whose only interest is making him look bad."
[...]
The former speaker, who said he was traveling in Ukraine, was infuriated by recent coverage of Trump's alleged disclosures to the Russian foreign minister of classified intelligence that was reportedly obtained from Israel and the firing of the FBI director. Gingrich said that the president has a right "to declassify anything he wants to," and that presidents for centuries have disclosed sensitive information in chats with foreign officials. He also said that reporters shouldn't print information they couldn't attach a name to.
"You guys are nuts," he said.
Gingrich said 10 percent of Trump's problems are from his White House's mistakes — and 90 percent come from the American news media, who he said wakes up every morning trying to damage Trump's presidency. "I don't care what he does with his staff," Gingrich said.
The former speaker said he had been watching CNN in Kiev and feared the coverage would sink in to foreign countries and the image projected by the American news media is "totally misleading and totally false."
"There are people here who read this crap and thinks we should be afraid. You have a national defense team of Mattis, Kelly and Tillerson. This is the best team since Eisenhower," he said.
"These people around the world read you as though you're real," he said. "The damage the news media is doing to the United States is despicable."
Gingrich said he was walking home from dinner and had little else to say.
"Goodbye," he said, before the phone clicked.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/newt-gingrich-donald-trump-shut-down-press-room-238458 Gingrich is going to be Gingrich. However, there's an article to be made to do a two-week hiatus of briefings to prove the point. If only we could do that with free-fire tweeting too--my kingdom for an adviser that makes that happen. A government without a press room is a disgrace though. Do you think North Korea has a legit press room where independent journalists can ask critical questions of the government? In general, Trump's constant attacks on the media has certain fascist implications. Apparently he asked Comey to jail journalists, and he's looking into prosecuting Wikileaks which might serve as a precedent for attacks on press freedom. You are misreading the situation. A lot is wrong with trump but the true fascists are to be found on the other side. The medias constant attacks and very polarized reporting is what has certain fascist implications,though in a very subtle way. Trump is just a clown,basicly harmless. Even wallstreet seems to agree with this, at least for now. He might be a dictator if he could,but there is no way he can be in America so that doesn't worry me at all. The media on the other hand,but ok enough about them lol.
I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this argument in absentia before I just report you for breaking thread rules and let the mods sort it out. How is the media "fascist"? I'll help you by giving the definition of fascist:
an advocate or follower of the political philosophy or system of fascism.
and here is the definition of fascism:
that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Lets see. Does the media support a centralized autocratic government? Given their treatment of Trump, it sure doesn't look like they support this government. Perhaps you'd like to try and argue that they are fighting in favour of a more centralized and autocratic government? I'll just say "citation needed" and leave it at that.
Does the media support a dictatorial leader? I´ll just feel free to answer for all of "the media" you happily lumped together and answer for all of them: hell no. Except perhaps Breitbart, who is fully in support of the great orange orangutan.
Does the media advocate nationalism and elevating race over individual? No, that would also be the great orange orangutan, who came into the white house on a wave of nationalism and racism. And because you are particularly juxtaposing the media as opposed to Trump, you are clearly not talking about the pernicious problem of covering Trump 24/7 and thereby highlighting his platform.
Does the media support economic and social regimentation? I have no idea. If that's the aspect of fascism you were trying to highlight, I'll let you make the argument.
That leaves the final aspect of fascism: "forcible oppression of the opposition". Which you might want to accuse the media of. Unfortunately for you, the media does not use force, so it doesn't really apply. Moreover, this is not unique to fascism. In fact, none of these points are, fascism is the ideology that arises from the combination of all of this.
You can't just throw words around that you think are "bad" and hope they mean something other than they do.
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On May 17 2017 18:31 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 17:00 Grumbels wrote:On May 17 2017 13:05 Danglars wrote:On May 17 2017 12:48 Nevuk wrote:Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said on Tuesday that President Donald Trump should "close down the White House press briefing room.”
"I am personally offended by the American news media. I think it is destructive and disgusting. It is a danger to the country right now," Gingrich said. He also said the press should be banished to a nearby Starbucks and that Spicer should take questions from the American people. "Just say to the American people, you get to choose," Gingrich said.
Closing the press briefing room would send a message to the country "that the media is a corrupt institution and he is tired of being harassed by people whose only interest is making him look bad."
[...]
The former speaker, who said he was traveling in Ukraine, was infuriated by recent coverage of Trump's alleged disclosures to the Russian foreign minister of classified intelligence that was reportedly obtained from Israel and the firing of the FBI director. Gingrich said that the president has a right "to declassify anything he wants to," and that presidents for centuries have disclosed sensitive information in chats with foreign officials. He also said that reporters shouldn't print information they couldn't attach a name to.
"You guys are nuts," he said.
Gingrich said 10 percent of Trump's problems are from his White House's mistakes — and 90 percent come from the American news media, who he said wakes up every morning trying to damage Trump's presidency. "I don't care what he does with his staff," Gingrich said.
The former speaker said he had been watching CNN in Kiev and feared the coverage would sink in to foreign countries and the image projected by the American news media is "totally misleading and totally false."
"There are people here who read this crap and thinks we should be afraid. You have a national defense team of Mattis, Kelly and Tillerson. This is the best team since Eisenhower," he said.
"These people around the world read you as though you're real," he said. "The damage the news media is doing to the United States is despicable."
Gingrich said he was walking home from dinner and had little else to say.
"Goodbye," he said, before the phone clicked.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/newt-gingrich-donald-trump-shut-down-press-room-238458 Gingrich is going to be Gingrich. However, there's an article to be made to do a two-week hiatus of briefings to prove the point. If only we could do that with free-fire tweeting too--my kingdom for an adviser that makes that happen. A government without a press room is a disgrace though. Do you think North Korea has a legit press room where independent journalists can ask critical questions of the government? In general, Trump's constant attacks on the media has certain fascist implications. Apparently he asked Comey to jail journalists, and he's looking into prosecuting Wikileaks which might serve as a precedent for attacks on press freedom. You are misreading the situation. A lot is wrong with trump but the true fascists are to be found on the other side. The medias constant attacks and very polarized reporting is what has certain fascist implications,though in a very subtle way. Trump is just a clown,basicly harmless. Even wallstreet seems to agree with this, at least for now. He might be a dictator if he could,but there is no way he can be in America so that doesn't worry me at all. The media on the other hand,but ok enough about them lol.
Trumps campaign is being investigated by the FBI. Trump asked for loyalty from the FBI director, and asked him to end part of the investigation. Trump later fired the director because of the investigation. Taken together this is unprecedented, and even Chaffetz is now going to look into it. The media's urgency is justified.
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On May 17 2017 18:26 HalcyonRain wrote:
Trump shoots from the hip way too often; perhaps that's all he does.
Not sure if you voted for trump but this was abundantly clear before the election.
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I didn't realize it at the time, but the official White House statement about the Comey memo doesn't have a name attached so that no one could get thrown under the bus. I wonder if they understand the palpable irony of doing that given what they've said about anonymous administration sources.
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On May 17 2017 19:33 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2017 18:31 pmh wrote:On May 17 2017 17:00 Grumbels wrote:On May 17 2017 13:05 Danglars wrote:On May 17 2017 12:48 Nevuk wrote:Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said on Tuesday that President Donald Trump should "close down the White House press briefing room.”
"I am personally offended by the American news media. I think it is destructive and disgusting. It is a danger to the country right now," Gingrich said. He also said the press should be banished to a nearby Starbucks and that Spicer should take questions from the American people. "Just say to the American people, you get to choose," Gingrich said.
Closing the press briefing room would send a message to the country "that the media is a corrupt institution and he is tired of being harassed by people whose only interest is making him look bad."
[...]
The former speaker, who said he was traveling in Ukraine, was infuriated by recent coverage of Trump's alleged disclosures to the Russian foreign minister of classified intelligence that was reportedly obtained from Israel and the firing of the FBI director. Gingrich said that the president has a right "to declassify anything he wants to," and that presidents for centuries have disclosed sensitive information in chats with foreign officials. He also said that reporters shouldn't print information they couldn't attach a name to.
"You guys are nuts," he said.
Gingrich said 10 percent of Trump's problems are from his White House's mistakes — and 90 percent come from the American news media, who he said wakes up every morning trying to damage Trump's presidency. "I don't care what he does with his staff," Gingrich said.
The former speaker said he had been watching CNN in Kiev and feared the coverage would sink in to foreign countries and the image projected by the American news media is "totally misleading and totally false."
"There are people here who read this crap and thinks we should be afraid. You have a national defense team of Mattis, Kelly and Tillerson. This is the best team since Eisenhower," he said.
"These people around the world read you as though you're real," he said. "The damage the news media is doing to the United States is despicable."
Gingrich said he was walking home from dinner and had little else to say.
"Goodbye," he said, before the phone clicked.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/newt-gingrich-donald-trump-shut-down-press-room-238458 Gingrich is going to be Gingrich. However, there's an article to be made to do a two-week hiatus of briefings to prove the point. If only we could do that with free-fire tweeting too--my kingdom for an adviser that makes that happen. A government without a press room is a disgrace though. Do you think North Korea has a legit press room where independent journalists can ask critical questions of the government? In general, Trump's constant attacks on the media has certain fascist implications. Apparently he asked Comey to jail journalists, and he's looking into prosecuting Wikileaks which might serve as a precedent for attacks on press freedom. You are misreading the situation. A lot is wrong with trump but the true fascists are to be found on the other side. The medias constant attacks and very polarized reporting is what has certain fascist implications,though in a very subtle way. Trump is just a clown,basicly harmless. Even wallstreet seems to agree with this, at least for now. He might be a dictator if he could,but there is no way he can be in America so that doesn't worry me at all. The media on the other hand,but ok enough about them lol. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this argument in absentia before I just report you for breaking thread rules and let the mods sort it out. How is the media "fascist"? I'll help you by giving the definition of fascist: and here is the definition of fascism: Show nested quote +that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition Lets see. Does the media support a centralized autocratic government? Given their treatment of Trump, it sure doesn't look like they support this government. Perhaps you'd like to try and argue that they are fighting in favour of a more centralized and autocratic government? I'll just say "citation needed" and leave it at that. Does the media support a dictatorial leader? I´ll just feel free to answer for all of "the media" you happily lumped together and answer for all of them: hell no. Except perhaps Breitbart, who is fully in support of the great orange orangutan. Does the media advocate nationalism and elevating race over individual? No, that would also be the great orange orangutan, who came into the white house on a wave of nationalism and racism. And because you are particularly juxtaposing the media as opposed to Trump, you are clearly not talking about the pernicious problem of covering Trump 24/7 and thereby highlighting his platform. Does the media support economic and social regimentation? I have no idea. If that's the aspect of fascism you were trying to highlight, I'll let you make the argument. That leaves the final aspect of fascism: "forcible oppression of the opposition". Which you might want to accuse the media of. Unfortunately for you, the media does not use force, so it doesn't really apply. Moreover, this is not unique to fascism. In fact, none of these points are, fascism is the ideology that arises from the combination of all of this. You can't just throw words around that you think are "bad" and hope they mean something other than they do.
I was not the one to introduce "fascist implications" in this thread,i was reacting to another poster who used that term. He used the term very lightly,not speaking of fascism straight up but saying "certain fascist implications" Its very vague but I can see where he is getting at. I think the same can be said for the media,the medias control and very biased reporting has "certain fascist implications".
The fascist implication being that the media are used to convey one particular point of vieuw and systematic ignore and or or ridicule every other point of vieuw. That aspect in general,the media reporting very biased and more or less trying to indoctrinate the population with a certain point of vieuw,that I see as a fascist implication. A very vague term again but I basicly mean that the way the media has been operating in resistance to trump,is similar to the way the media operates to support fascist regimes. Its an analogy,not the exact same situation. But the reason why this would be bad goes for both sides. Not only when the media is in favor of a regime,also when the media is against a regime. That's why I called it " certain fascist implications" My issue is with the indoctrination an sich which to me is a "certain fascist implication" (maybe not according to a textbook definition but to me indoctrination is an aspect of fascist regimes,indoctrination for me goes further then being put in jail by force,there also is soft indoctrination in for example education and the media which i think is equally if not more dangerous) not with what people are trying to achieve with the indoctrination.
I don't see why I should be reported for this. The direction the media has been going lately is truly worrying me.
I am aware of the background and history of fascism in several countries in Europe and i can understand it is a sensitive subject. But both me and the poster to which I did respond where using the term lightly by saying "certain fascist implications"
Anyway,i have become indifferent about anything trump does thx to the media. Just get rid of him already so we can move on. This daily trashing of everything he says and does while not getting rid of him is just very annoying after a while.
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I would not use indoctrination to describe the media. That is a term that requires intention and a directed effort to make people think a specific way. Media is leaning toward more polarization, especially with the ways google and facebook are currently designed. But the majority (55%) of Americans still get their new local networks.
Government systems like Fascism, Autocracy and Democracy are abstract. The test for them is not scientific. You will never know the exact moment a government goes form a Democracy to an Autocracy. There is no sign that comes up. The changes are slow and do not often have an impact on most citizens day to day lives. That is the dangerous part about fascism, that you might not notice until it is way to late. Trump isn’t a fascist, but it is abundantly clear he has no respect for the rule of law or the separation of powers and would remove them if he could.
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There is no sign that comes up. The changes are slow and do not often have an impact on most citizens day to day lives. That is the dangerous part about fascism, that you might not notice until it is way to late.
That is exactly why I am so fierce in my rants about the media,but I will leave it at this and will try keep the discussion/my rants about the media out of this thread from now. But yes,the above is very much what I fear is happening to the media lately.
Your point I can see though and you could be right. Maybe it just is still biased reporting and not indoctrination yet,i guess its a gliding scale and we are moving in the wrong direction.
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Fascism is a form of government that uses force and is rooted in nationalism. The media, for all its flaws, cannot employ the threat of force or strip people of civil rights.
I understand your complaint with the media. But I would say fascism is the wrong term for what you want to describe.
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No but all the fascist regimes made heavy use of the media (and education) to indoctrinate the population and stay in power. It is a key component of fascist regimes,without any sort of soft indoctrination it is very difficult to keep the population under control. Anyway I will leave it at this now,thx for response!
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Everyone has a different idea of what fascist are. Apparently the Trumpets think democrats are fascists, but then they're also globalists? Which one is it? lol...
Pmh while true, I do think it depends on the media. Most of the time media that fall under fascists regime are either owned by the government, taken over by the government, or pledge allegiance to said regime.
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sources sounds like bannon.
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Can you imagine if Bannon is trying to also burn down the WH from within? I mean lately him and Trump haven't really been getting along at least, that's how the media has been portraying it lately.
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How to keep Trump interested into the data you are presenting to him? Mention Trump a lot  . This Middle East and Europe trip will be interesting.
One Republican official, who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, said after meeting Trump recently he did not think the president had a firm enough grasp on the nuances of the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"I don't think he understands it," said the official, adding that Trump needed more detailed briefings before leaving on Friday. "I think it's a very difficult challenge and I hope he's going to talk to a lot of smart people."
White House advisers insisted Trump was up to speed on the Middle East, having already hosted Arab, Israeli and Palestinian leaders at the White House.
“His way of doing diplomacy, which really contrasts with President Obama's approach, is to ... prioritize the personal relationship," said Michael Singh, a foreign policy adviser to former Republican President George W. Bush.
To prepare for his trip, Trump has been meeting with briefers including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, White House national security adviser H.R. McMaster, deputy national security adviser Dina Powell and senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner.
Conversations with some officials who have briefed Trump and others who are aware of how he absorbs information portray a president with a short attention span.
He likes single-page memos and visual aids like maps, charts, graphs and photos.
National Security Council officials have strategically included Trump's name in "as many paragraphs as we can because he keeps reading if he's mentioned," according to one source, who relayed conversations he had with NSC officials.
Trump likes to look at a map of the country involved when he learns about a topic.
"He likes to visualize things," said a senior administration official. "The guy's a builder. He has spent his whole life looking at architectural renderings and floor plans."
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-trip-idUSKCN18D0C7
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On May 17 2017 22:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Can you imagine if Bannon is trying to also burn down the WH from within? I mean lately him and Trump haven't really been getting along at least, that's how the media has been portraying it lately.
my understanding is that bannon and kushner are at odds, so not surprised that they'd be trying to pin the blame on each other whenever something goes wrong. moreover, he kinda wants to dismantle the US government so burning down the white house would probably be a step towards that goal. i also think bannon has no real loyalty to trump, whereas kushner probably does - family and all that.
bannon took flak for some dumb shit i can't even remember, but i assume he's wormed his way back into the donald's good graces.
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United States43964 Posts
On May 17 2017 22:50 pmh wrote:
No but all the fascist regimes made heavy use of the media (and education) to indoctrinate the population and stay in power. It is a key component of fascist regimes,without any sort of soft indoctrination it is very difficult to keep the population under control. Anyway I will leave it at this now,thx for response!
You're not wrong that fascist and authoritarian regimes seize the media, which if independent would be a check to their control, and use it to justify the regime. But the current situation couldn't be further from that. The media isn't operating as an arm of government squashing all opinions but the state one. Quite the opposite, the media is a wide variety of views and slants, some of which hold the government accountable for its mistakes while others explain them away.
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On May 17 2017 22:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Can you imagine if Bannon is trying to also burn down the WH from within? I mean lately him and Trump haven't really been getting along at least, that's how the media has been portraying it lately.
Well this fundraiser mail was sent out yesterday
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Canada13407 Posts
The media can't be fascist. It isn't part of the government -- it can't be a part of government -- it has no control over anything related to fascism.
It might be biased at times but lets be real -- what Trump has been doing is grossly incompetent, and he's being held accountable to his actions by the media - thats their job. To inform people of what is going on.
Its moved beyond people pointed criticism of policy positions in a political space by the media. When thats the topic people can go back and forth about the role of the media all day every day and I think thats a fair topic to discuss media bias and its influence.
But Trump is acting outside of that space right now. He's being criticized for firing the FBI director, after allegedly asking for loyalty, and now with memos written by a life long peace officer that is Comey saying he was asked to drop the Flynn/Russia investigation.
It makes zero sense to me that someone who holds the rule of law in high regard and assumed one of the most important offices in American policing through his years of hard work as an officer of the law would lie in a memo for some sort of personal grudge.
If he's had these memos for so long and never mentioned any of it in public and was respectful of his role as FBI director then I can only think he never wanted it to get to this point. He probably wrote it off as Trump misspeaking or having a different intention - but then Trump's public comments and his firing of Comey etc pushed the man to change his mind and reveal a memo.
Add in the fact Trump can't keep classified information classified, and that his own Intelligence Community withholds information from him so he cant expose it inadvertently ....
Come on.
This has nothing to do with "the media" and whatever other buzzwords you want to use and 100% to do with how absolutely incompetent, dangerous and unequipped the current President of the US is for his job.
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EPT
