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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 03 2017 05:58 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 05:55 Doodsmack wrote:On May 03 2017 05:49 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 05:38 Plansix wrote:On May 03 2017 05:18 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 05:13 Doodsmack wrote:Can't say I disagree with her. What came through loud and clear -- despite her assertions that she made a number of mistakes in the course of the campaign -- was that Clinton believes that the election was taken from her. And that she's still mad as hell about it.
"I was on the way to winning until a combination of Jim Comey's letter on October 28 and Russian WikiLeaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me and got scared off. And the evidence for that intervening event is I think compelling, persuasive and so we overcame a lot in the campaign," Clinton said at one point, citing analysis by 538's Nate Silver suggesting that up until those twin events, she was winning.
She sarcastically noted the "coincidence" that an hour after the story of Trump's lewd comments on an "Access Hollywood" taping broke, WikiLeaks revealed it had more than 50,000 private emails sent by her campaign chairman John Podesta. www.cnn.com You know, it wouldn't be so fun to mock the "Putin-Comey conspiracy" if it weren't the case that there are too many buffoons (including Clinton) who still desperately cling to that narrative to explain her defeat, as if that was the only reason she lost. When you make the completely safe argument that there were other factors involved, it makes it pretty easy to derail the discussion. Elections are complex things, so no one will dispute that Clinton and her team totally dropped the ball. But that doesn’t make the Wikileaks/Comey any less compelling as one of those factors. Especially when she cites the research done by Nate Silver. Both of them did have an impact on voter’s impressions of her and their decisions. Yes, they were both factors - possibly even tipping factors. But ultimately they are micro issues, the unfortunate result of circumstance that every candidate has to make do with. Shit occasionally happens, that much is true. It happened to the other side all the time - the Access Hollywood tape being one of them. But it's important to acknowledge who made the opening for the Putin-Comey alliance to become a pivotal moment, and those have nothing to do with Putin or Comey. I think it akin to if a candidate goes on for months about how they lost because it was too snowy across the country on election day and it disproportionately reduced turnout in their strongholds. It looks just as bitch an excuse in that scenario. Russian state sponsored interference on this level is not a micro issue. It is in terms of how much potential it has to shift the voting tally.
No its really not, and no amount of your patriotic denial of that is going to change reality.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 03 2017 05:59 Plansix wrote: And seriously, I know your Russian and all, but can you not use Whataboutism every time this topic comes up? Can you pick a less Russian way to change the topic?
Yes, you're very clever for figuring something out about two years later than everyone else already knowing it and then using ye olde canned retorts even where it's not appropriate to do so.
On May 03 2017 06:00 hunts wrote: No its really not, and no amount of your patriotic denial of that is going to change reality. Kinda scratching my head on this one. Pretty bizzarre and unsubstantiated assertion no matter how you slice it.
On May 03 2017 05:59 Plansix wrote: Since election day we have heard your argument about electability. It is old and we get it. No one is talking about an alliance but you. None of doesn’t change the fact that she might have won were it not for the Comey letter and wikileaks. We don’t know and nothing will change that.
If people really did "get it" there would be no reason to talk about it so often. But evidently there is no such understanding - there is merely a desire to deflect and find a way to say that evil, evil Russia, and our ally-turned-traitor James Comey, screwed everything up which was going perfect before. If only the Podesta leaks hadn't taken the steam out of the Access Hollywood tape on the eve of the final, glorious trump card being played against Trump, things would have gone perfect.
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I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one.
Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context.
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http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
This comic is pretty relevant to everyone's behaviour, regardless of party in this thread. Kinda hard to ask everyone to open up and see the other side, but at least you can understand why the other person's so dead set in their viewpoints.
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On May 03 2017 06:23 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one. Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context. Whatever makes you happy my maybe Russian friend. Just keep on doing your thing and we fondly remember that time you tried to pretend to be British.
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On May 03 2017 06:23 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one. Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context.
I explicitly remember you having a Russian tag as your country.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 03 2017 06:37 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 06:23 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one. Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context. I explicitly remember you having a Russian tag as your country. As of when? I find it hard to remember something that didn't happen.
Not that it's a secret at all - I just don't put a country tag because neither US nor Russia are a good enough description.
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On May 03 2017 06:42 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 06:37 hunts wrote:On May 03 2017 06:23 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one. Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context. I explicitly remember you having a Russian tag as your country. As of when? I find it hard to remember something that didn't happen. Not that it's a secret at all - I just don't put a country tag because neither US nor Russia are a good enough description.
Several years back, I remember you having it when russia just started invading Crimea and you were in the thread devoted to it denying russia was in any way involved or doing anything wrong.
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The mental gymnastics is amazing...
The Trump administration is doing damage control as Congress inches toward passage of a massive spending deal that ducks the president's most contentious demands.
Less than 48 hours after the funding bill’s release, White House budget chief Mick Mulvaney is forcefully working to reverse the narrative that Democrats emerged as clear victors, and President Donald Trump is touting the legislation as delivering on his core campaign promises.
“They’re walking around trying to make it like they pulled one over fast on the president, and I just won’t stand for it,” Mulvaney said Tuesday afternoon during the daily White House press conference.
The budget director’s appearance at the White House media briefing marked his third check-in with reporters since Monday evening — a press blitz seemingly spurred by an angry president.
According to one person familiar with Trump’s thinking, the president was furious Tuesday morning with news coverage about the spending deal and "the idea he looked like the loser.”
Mulvaney was asked to do a last-minute media briefing Tuesday morning, after holding a call with reporters Monday night, and to clear his schedule for the 1:30 p.m. press conference, a White House official said.
Trump instructed his aides to change the messaging around the spending bill and decided to speak about the deal during an unrelated event at the Rose Garden, in an attempt to himself alter the narrative, one White House official said.
The president also took to Twitter to justify the Republican party’s Democratic concessions, explaining that the GOP only ceded to the minority party because Republicans lacks the requisite Senate votes to pass a spending bill without Democratic support.
“Our country needs a good ‘shutdown’ in September to fix mess!” Trump tweeted.
One adviser who frequently speaks to Trump said the president closely follows news coverage and tweets "when he feels like he isn't being defended."
Asked about Trump’s shutdown threat, Mulvaney said he thinks “the president is frustrated with the fact that he negotiated in good faith with the Democrats, and they went out to try to spike the football and make him look bad.”
While the budget director said he does not anticipate a lapse in federal funding in September, he warned that “if the Democrats aren’t going to behave any better than they have in the last couple of days, it may be inevitable.”
Earlier Tuesday, Mulvaney accused Democrats of trying to spur a shutdown on the spending bill Congress will consider this week.
“[Democrats] didn't get what many of them, including many in their base, wanted — they wanted a shutdown,” Mulvaney told reporters. “They wanted to make this president look like he did not know what he was doing. And he beat them on that at the very, very highest level. They were desperate to show that we were not reasonable, and we completely destroyed that narrative by negotiating this deal. This is a huge win for the president.”
The $1 trillion funding measure both the House and Senate are expected to pass by Friday ignores the most high-profile items on the White House’s wish list, including funding for Trump’s border wall project and the proposed $18 billion in cuts to domestic programs. But after a full day of Democratic victory parades on Capitol Hill, Mulvaney trumpeted the $15 billion boost in war funding and $1.5 billion for border security as major successes for the president.
In a speech Tuesday dedicated to honoring the Air Force Academy’s football team, Trump talked up Republicans’ “under-the-radar” victories in the spending bill — including border security. He also tried to claim a win on his long-promised border wall, arguing he could make a “down payment” and create an “unbreakable” barrier with the additional border security cash.
Source
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 03 2017 06:49 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 06:42 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 06:37 hunts wrote:On May 03 2017 06:23 LegalLord wrote:On May 03 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote: I love this fiction where I am the only one who caught on and the rest of TL knew where you were from. Like I wasn’t in the thread when people discussed that Russia used to in your profile until it was removed. Or that other people have not called you out on the exact same thing. It isn't our fault that Zeo gave you so much cloud cover that we didn't notice you flying the Russian flag too. Oh you mean the part where I never actually had that country tag? Yes, I remember that as well. I may or may not have had a US tag before - I honestly can't remember - but I've never used a Russia one. Sorry dude, you're just the "big fat phony" guy making a big deal out of something that was already well known. And not to mention you use it more for the purpose of being obtuse (ur just med cuz rusha) than for any actual useful context. I explicitly remember you having a Russian tag as your country. As of when? I find it hard to remember something that didn't happen. Not that it's a secret at all - I just don't put a country tag because neither US nor Russia are a good enough description. Several years back, I remember you having it when russia just started invading Crimea and you were in the thread devoted to it denying russia was in any way involved or doing anything wrong. That is possible - in that I don't have much evidence directly to the contrary - but I don't think I had one then either. In any case I would have removed it well before the end of the Ukraine threads.
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I want to thank the true patriot Plansix for identifying and reporting the un-american activities of the user Legallord, who is suspected to be a russian and not a true american.
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These last two pages kind of remind me of this article in the Washington Post.
Lily Rozhkova was a journalist in Russia before she moved to the United States in 1999. Most of her friends in Washington are Russian, and the relationship between the two countries has become the first thing they talk about when they all get together.
“We do worry about this,” she says. “We’re just trying to stay optimistic and hope that they just work on the situation and don’t make our worst fears happen.”
Rozhkova, 44, is a green-card holder who works at a real estate office in Virginia. She remembers that when President Barack Obama booted out 35 Russian diplomats and their families in December as a penalty for Russian interference in the election she heard jokes from American friends and colleagues.
“They said, ‘Are you a spy? Do you work with KGB?’ And I told them there’s been no KGB for years,” she said, with a laugh. “They were just making a joke, but that was all.”
As the news churns and allegations grow, however, Rozhkova says the talk is occasionally more serious.
“I would say they are starting to mention Russia more in the past couple of months,” she says. “Before the election, it was more of a joke, but right now the more they hear from TV and media, it’s like this joke, they’re starting to believe it might be true.”
[..]
The rector of the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Northwest Washington says that “being a Russian American now is almost on par with being a Russian American during the Cold War.”
Potapov, 68, came to the United States in 1950 when he was 2 years old. Growing up in Cleveland, his parents were fervent anti-Communists who always told their son to remind his American friends that there was a big difference between the Soviet regime and the Russian people.
So Potapov was thrilled when the Soviet Union collapsed and a new relationship emerged between the United States and a reborn Russia. Now that relationship is being strained in ways that worry him, at least in the short term. He thinks the issue of election meddling has been overblown and that there has been a lot of misunderstanding about Russia’s role.
“I’m always happy when there’s an American commentator who comes around and says, ‘Wait a minute guys, let’s stop and soberly discuss what’s going on.’ We can’t see a KGB agent behind every bush,” he says. “We’re delighted when there are people out there who write sober articles instead of alarming everybody.” Source
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LegalLord, were you working with Putin to undermine Hillary? I think we are onto the reason why she lost the election!
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On May 03 2017 07:04 a_flayer wrote:These last two pages kind of remind me of this article in the Washington Post. Show nested quote +Lily Rozhkova was a journalist in Russia before she moved to the United States in 1999. Most of her friends in Washington are Russian, and the relationship between the two countries has become the first thing they talk about when they all get together.
“We do worry about this,” she says. “We’re just trying to stay optimistic and hope that they just work on the situation and don’t make our worst fears happen.”
Rozhkova, 44, is a green-card holder who works at a real estate office in Virginia. She remembers that when President Barack Obama booted out 35 Russian diplomats and their families in December as a penalty for Russian interference in the election she heard jokes from American friends and colleagues.
“They said, ‘Are you a spy? Do you work with KGB?’ And I told them there’s been no KGB for years,” she said, with a laugh. “They were just making a joke, but that was all.”
As the news churns and allegations grow, however, Rozhkova says the talk is occasionally more serious.
“I would say they are starting to mention Russia more in the past couple of months,” she says. “Before the election, it was more of a joke, but right now the more they hear from TV and media, it’s like this joke, they’re starting to believe it might be true.”
[..]
The rector of the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Northwest Washington says that “being a Russian American now is almost on par with being a Russian American during the Cold War.”
Potapov, 68, came to the United States in 1950 when he was 2 years old. Growing up in Cleveland, his parents were fervent anti-Communists who always told their son to remind his American friends that there was a big difference between the Soviet regime and the Russian people.
So Potapov was thrilled when the Soviet Union collapsed and a new relationship emerged between the United States and a reborn Russia. Now that relationship is being strained in ways that worry him, at least in the short term. He thinks the issue of election meddling has been overblown and that there has been a lot of misunderstanding about Russia’s role.
“I’m always happy when there’s an American commentator who comes around and says, ‘Wait a minute guys, let’s stop and soberly discuss what’s going on.’ We can’t see a KGB agent behind every bush,” he says. “We’re delighted when there are people out there who write sober articles instead of alarming everybody.” Source Haha, that does actually happen. Though generally, unless I know the person has an above-average willingness to listen, I've found that the best response to "are you a KGB spy?" is merely "yes, of course." Works since most such people have so dull a sense of humor that they can't really tell if you're joking or not.
On May 03 2017 07:04 biology]major wrote: LegalLord, were you working with Putin to undermine Hillary? I think we are onto the reason why she lost the election! Yes, of course.
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On May 03 2017 07:04 a_flayer wrote:These last two pages kind of remind me of this article in the Washington Post. Show nested quote +Lily Rozhkova was a journalist in Russia before she moved to the United States in 1999. Most of her friends in Washington are Russian, and the relationship between the two countries has become the first thing they talk about when they all get together.
“We do worry about this,” she says. “We’re just trying to stay optimistic and hope that they just work on the situation and don’t make our worst fears happen.”
Rozhkova, 44, is a green-card holder who works at a real estate office in Virginia. She remembers that when President Barack Obama booted out 35 Russian diplomats and their families in December as a penalty for Russian interference in the election she heard jokes from American friends and colleagues.
“They said, ‘Are you a spy? Do you work with KGB?’ And I told them there’s been no KGB for years,” she said, with a laugh. “They were just making a joke, but that was all.”
As the news churns and allegations grow, however, Rozhkova says the talk is occasionally more serious.
“I would say they are starting to mention Russia more in the past couple of months,” she says. “Before the election, it was more of a joke, but right now the more they hear from TV and media, it’s like this joke, they’re starting to believe it might be true.”
[..]
The rector of the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Northwest Washington says that “being a Russian American now is almost on par with being a Russian American during the Cold War.”
Potapov, 68, came to the United States in 1950 when he was 2 years old. Growing up in Cleveland, his parents were fervent anti-Communists who always told their son to remind his American friends that there was a big difference between the Soviet regime and the Russian people.
So Potapov was thrilled when the Soviet Union collapsed and a new relationship emerged between the United States and a reborn Russia. Now that relationship is being strained in ways that worry him, at least in the short term. He thinks the issue of election meddling has been overblown and that there has been a lot of misunderstanding about Russia’s role.
“I’m always happy when there’s an American commentator who comes around and says, ‘Wait a minute guys, let’s stop and soberly discuss what’s going on.’ We can’t see a KGB agent behind every bush,” he says. “We’re delighted when there are people out there who write sober articles instead of alarming everybody.” Source I have no problems with a Russian living in America.
I have problems with a Russian living in America talking about how Putin is doing nothing wrong in Russia, how the EU should disband because of nebulous reasons, how Eastern Europeans cannot integrate into the EU because they did not accept Russian oppression, how Russian interference in US elections is no big deal ect ect.
The problem with LL is not that he is Russian. Its what he says that I have a problem with.
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^ indeed. Legallord is expected to appear before the HUAC in the following week, so we can put an end to this.
Seriosuly though, dont you guys get how insane you sound? Not wanting Russians in the US, unless they share the same opinions like you and like the EU?
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On May 03 2017 07:19 Paljas wrote: ^ indeed. Legallord is expected to appear before the HUAC in the following week, so we can put an end to this.
Seriosuly though, dont you guys get how insane you sound? Not wanting Russians in the US, unless they share the same opinions like you and like the EU? Where did I say I dont want him living in the US (or the EU for that matter)?
I'm allowed to dislike someone with radically different views from my own am I not? Doesn't mean I have to wish him gone.
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Well this just got a lot more interesting.
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On May 03 2017 07:19 Paljas wrote: ^ indeed. Legallord is expected to appear before the HUAC in the following week, so we can put an end to this.
Seriosuly though, dont you guys get how insane you sound? Not wanting Russians in the US, unless they share the same opinions like you and like the EU? Who said that? No one has a problem with Russians, just LegalLord and his constant Russia can do no wrong nationalism. His work travels across several threads.
On May 03 2017 07:03 Paljas wrote: I want to thank the true patriot Plansix for identifying and reporting the un-american activities of the user Legallord, who is suspected to be a russian and not a true american. I really only accused him of being a pain in the ass on the internet.
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