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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
April 23 2017 23:19 GMT
#147701
On April 24 2017 08:16 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2017 08:11 LegalLord wrote:
The man has a pretty remarkable ability to selectively find the things in the news that praise him, valid or not, and make a big deal out of them. I can only wonder if he thinks that most of the country secretly loves him.

While true, he's also claiming to be able to do something he never did (beat Hillary in the popular vote). Seems a bit delusional


but don't worry I'm sure his investigation into voter fraud will prove he's right. Oh wait.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22084 Posts
April 23 2017 23:21 GMT
#147702
Did people already forget how delusional Trump is?
Yes he thinks he won the popular vote (millions of voter fraud by illegal immigrants after all)
and yes he thinks the country secretly loves him because the news is all fake and he is the greatest man ever so ofc they love him.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
April 23 2017 23:24 GMT
#147703
On April 24 2017 08:21 Gorsameth wrote:
Did people already forget how delusional Trump is?
Yes he thinks he won the popular vote (millions of voter fraud by illegal immigrants after all)
and yes he thinks the country secretly loves him because the news is all fake and he is the greatest man ever so ofc they love him.


I thought he was just saying it and didn't really believe it at first. Kind of thinking the best route to go would be to ask him to get a mental evaluation. Seriously worried that he's developing dementia or something.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24753 Posts
April 23 2017 23:34 GMT
#147704
If a foreign state actor hacks Trump's twitter at an inopportune moment and injects just the wrong words they can probably make countries disappear from the map. There are very few things that could pop up on Trump's personal twitter that would be obviously fake.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3295 Posts
April 23 2017 23:35 GMT
#147705
On April 24 2017 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2017 07:29 ChristianS wrote:
Understanding why Dems are disliked is absolutely interesting and worth exploring. Understanding why HRC was so disliked is just as useless as understanding Comey's impact on the election - it doesn't apply in the next election so it's useless.


Wrong. Why Hillary is disliked is very similar to why the Democrats are disliked. Comey's shit is useless, but Hillary stands as a singular personification of what problems reside within the Democratic party. Not to mention she and her strongest supporters are the impetus behind a lot of this stuff.

A good example would be campaign finance reform and Obama's lobbyist ban the DNC refused to reinstall after they lost the election.

If they're similar you can criticize the Dems for them and HRC doesn't need to come into it. And how are they similar if Hillary was such a uniquely unpopular candidate anyway?

A really good understanding of why people feel the way they do about Dems would be useful for winning elections. But if we got a really detailed analysis of how Hillary's mannerisms made her less popular, or if we learned a lot about specific CEOs she took a lot of money from and how that forced her to take specific positions, or even more detail about her email server and how she fucked it up and why - all of these would be absolutely useless for winning future elections unless we ran Hillary again for some reason. Otherwise, we might as well talk about the political dynamics surrounding politicians that still matter.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-23 23:58:52
April 23 2017 23:36 GMT
#147706
Also, I'm wondering what people think about the situation with Bernie endorsing a pro life democrat for mayor of Omaha and the DNC getting really pissy about it?


The addition of an anti-abortion Nebraska mayoral candidate to a Democratic National Committee “unity tour” sparked blowback from the left on Thursday.

Democrat Heath Mello, a Bernie Sanders-backed candidate for mayor of Omaha, is scheduled to appear with Sanders and Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), the DNC's new deputy chair, at a sold-out rally on Thursday.

But Mello's sponsorship of a 2009 state Senate bill to require women be informed of their right to request a fetal ultrasound before obtaining an abortion prompted a leading abortion-rights group to slam the DNC for elevating him.

"The actions today by the DNC to embrace and support a candidate for office who will strip women — one of the most critical constituencies for the party — of our basic rights and freedom is not only disappointing, it is politically stupid," NARAL Pro-Choice America President Ilyse Hogue said in a statement.

The popular liberal website Daily Kos also withdrew its endorsement of Mello on Thursday, citing his stance on the ultrasound bill.

Planned Parenthood, however, declined to take aim at the DNC for aligning with Mello, even as it appeared to warn Democrats against embracing restrictions on women's health care.

“Let's be clear: women's health is central to the progressive movement," Planned Parenthood Action Fund spokeswoman Erica Sackin said in a statement. "Planned Parenthood is a nonpartisan organization. We will hold any political party, any candidate for public office, and any elected official accountable for not standing up for reproductive rights."

Mello joins Indiana Sen. Joe Donnelly and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey as self-described anti-abortion Democrats who are getting support from the party this year.

DNC Chairman Tom Perez, who will not appear with Mello in Nebraska, released a statement Thursday that reiterated the party's "support for every woman’s right to make their own choices about their reproductive health and to have access to safe abortion services."

"Our job at the DNC is to help Democrats who have garnered support from voters in their community cross the finish line and win — from school board to Senate," Perez said. "The biggest threat to women's reproductive rights is the relentless Republican attacks on women’s health care, including legal, accessible abortion services."

A DNC spokesman said that Perez has made support for state parties a high priority, adding that Sanders aides and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleeb — who is also set to appear with Sanders, Mello and Ellison on Thursday — asked that the Omaha event with Mello be added to the party's "unity tour" schedule.

The budding backlash over Mello comes as Sanders has infuriated other Democrats for not endorsing Georgia House Democratic candidate Jon Ossoff while touring with DNC leaders.

Hogue described Ossoff as "a reproductive freedom candidate who said his campaign was fueled by women. This makes the DNC's actions even more puzzling and troubling."

By signing up you agree to receive email newsletters or alerts from POLITICO. You can unsubscribe at any time.
Kleeb declined to take issue with NARAL's criticism.

"I understand and respect NARAL standing up for the issue their group is founded on," Kleeb said by email. "As Chair of the Democratic Party, I stand with Democrats who continue to ensure women’s reproductive rights are never restricted, and that life at all levels ... is protected."


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/20/dnc-unity-rally-heath-mello-anti-abortion-237403
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 23 2017 23:42 GMT
#147707
Wait, why is being informed of that right controversial in the slightest?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-23 23:58:23
April 23 2017 23:53 GMT
#147708
On April 24 2017 08:42 LegalLord wrote:
Wait, why is being informed of that right controversial in the slightest?


pressure from the doctor to go through with it maybe? I don't really see why it should matter that much.

linked the wrong article btw. I see why pro reproductive rights would care but it's really not something that the general party should be getting mad about. It's kinda like

I mean no one cares that Garm Bel Edwards is governor of Louisiana and Pro life. (and has a pretty high job approval rate.)

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22084 Posts
April 23 2017 23:56 GMT
#147709
On April 24 2017 08:24 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2017 08:21 Gorsameth wrote:
Did people already forget how delusional Trump is?
Yes he thinks he won the popular vote (millions of voter fraud by illegal immigrants after all)
and yes he thinks the country secretly loves him because the news is all fake and he is the greatest man ever so ofc they love him.


I thought he was just saying it and didn't really believe it at first. Kind of thinking the best route to go would be to ask him to get a mental evaluation. Seriously worried that he's developing dementia or something.

People established early on that he seems to suffer from narcissism. His mind is convinced he is great and will bend his perception to suit that internal narrative.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-24 00:26:54
April 24 2017 00:26 GMT
#147710
On April 24 2017 08:42 LegalLord wrote:
Wait, why is being informed of that right controversial in the slightest?


Because, despite their claims of being more mainstream and reasonable, the party is filled with abortion fanatics.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43554 Posts
April 24 2017 00:34 GMT
#147711
On April 24 2017 09:26 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2017 08:42 LegalLord wrote:
Wait, why is being informed of that right controversial in the slightest?


Because, despite their claims of being more mainstream and reasonable, the party is filled with abortion fanatics.

People fanatical about having abortions? That seems an odd thing to be fanatical about. I can understand being fanatical about the right to bodily autonomy, seeing as that's the right that keeps utilitarians from taking the organs from one healthy person against their will to save four others, or from forcing people into slavery for the greater good, but fanatical about getting abortions? That's a stretch.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
April 24 2017 00:36 GMT
#147712
On April 24 2017 08:34 micronesia wrote:
If a foreign state actor hacks Trump's twitter at an inopportune moment and injects just the wrong words they can probably make countries disappear from the map. There are very few things that could pop up on Trump's personal twitter that would be obviously fake.


This is true, I'd imagine a tweet like "will be taking immediate military action on north korea soon, Kim Jong Un very bad man! Need to be strong!"
Question.?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
April 24 2017 00:38 GMT
#147713
I don't know if I would word it as fanatical, but I think it's the same mindset that a lot of NRA supporters have. They think if they ever give an inch their opponents will take a mile. So even sensible restrictions on gun control or abortion should be opposed because they'll lead to nonsensible restrictions. (I think abortion rights activists have much more evidence that will occur than gun rights activists do, though).
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
April 24 2017 00:40 GMT
#147714
Yup, that combined with the fact that anything opposing the pro-choice narrative means you are a mike pence level conception = birth pro-lifer. Us vs them.
Question.?
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-24 00:52:28
April 24 2017 00:45 GMT
#147715
Nope, fanatic is accurate. No dissent within the party is allowed it at all. I mean ffs Bernie Sanders makes more sense in this "controversy" than the DNC (and other liberal organizations), which ostensibly represent more people with more diverse viewpoints.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 24 2017 01:03 GMT
#147716
That just seems...bizarre to me. This isn't like Miranda Rights or something, where a failure to inform about one singular medical procedure causes the whole house to crash down. Do other medical procedures have a legally enforced X-Ray or MRI before they can be performed?

Unless that's the entire intent, creating an avenue for doctors to be liable, lose their medical license, etc.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-24 01:11:46
April 24 2017 01:11 GMT
#147717
The information seems like a way to make an emotional appeal to show people that they should keep the baby. But knowing that factoid shouldn't be problematic so I don't see why anyone would care.

There might be a somewhat more nefarious context to it, but that would need to be explained if it exists.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
April 24 2017 01:54 GMT
#147718
On April 24 2017 08:42 LegalLord wrote:
Wait, why is being informed of that right controversial in the slightest?

I don't know about this specific case, but there does exist a GOP strategy to create a Kafka-esque bureaucracy around getting an abortion where you have to jump through a million hoops and be humiliated at every turn before finally being able to go through with it. In aggregate, all these changes add up and do threaten abortion access.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3295 Posts
April 24 2017 01:59 GMT
#147719
The idea is that pro-lifers often want to force women seeking abortions to go through several rounds of anti-abortion convincing before they can get one. So you walk into the clinic past the protestors waving pictures of aborted fetuses, tell the doctor you want an abortion. He says are you sure you didn't mean ultrasound? You say bo, why would you want an ultrasound if you're aborting the baby. He says okay, here's some pamphlets about how it's really common to get an abortion and then regret it and feel like you murdered your baby, come back after a mandatory two week waiting period if you still want an abortion.

Sure, each individual step is just a minor inconvenience, but the only reason for any of those requirements is to make it more annoying to get an abortion, either to discourage women from getting them or to punish the ones that get one anyway. I'm not saying this was a good reason to go against party unity, but it's not liberal extremism to oppose such requirements.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-24 02:02:05
April 24 2017 02:01 GMT
#147720
It should, by all means, be a rather difficult process to get an abortion. Such a procedure should not be done lightly. This differs from, say, voting, where difficulty to prevent votes is not justified and is more akin to voter suppression.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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