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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 21 2017 04:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
chaffetz resignation seems like it could potentially be the first domino in a chain, doesn't seem like it could be an isolated incident. The sudden nature says incident, but I can't imagine any that set off a chain and are also plausible. Sexual misconduct, financial corruption, whatever, but every other one I see point to him calmly saying he's not seeking reelection months from now after briefing aides and donors. WaPo was theorizing ambition for gov position in a pretty slanted story. We'll know more later if he really does set up in the private sector somewhere.
Rumor has it he's been having an affair.
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As someone that is related to a few dairy owners and a few pig famers in southern minnesota (trust me every single steriotype of hic americans doesn't do justice to the reality don't get me started) Dairy farming is a really werid industry where the government has a ton of controls with ceilings floors and a lot of government buying to control the market. Its not at all true that farms have become corporate operations but they've definitely become more like small business's with corperate coops and corporate relationships like with monstanto and cargill.
Farming in general in america has gotten to such a mechanized and technologically advanced state that there is a ton of capacity that doesn't get used and the united states could increase production to exponential degrees if there was a larger demand for it. We're talking about combines that are multi million dollar machines with all the accessories and whatnot that can farm 1500 acers of whatever really easy for a few people. We're talking about cows that are producing more milk per cow today then probably a dozen or more and those herds can be grown relatively quickly once the price allows for it. We're talking Wind mills that farmers can easily work around producing electricity for hopefully electric combines one day (tesla please). Once you take fuel costs almost out of the equation the profitability of a farm would go up a lot. A lot of economic research has been done in animal husbandry and farming techniques and GMO's that can't easily be explained if you've never been on a farm.
And there are tons of farms that are't producing or are lain follow because it isn't profitable and it isn't needed to be farmed. Clean electric farm machines and meg lev trains for logistics and america could easily feed the world.
The government should intervene when it threatens the national economy to the point of instability as a whole. If Google released self driving semi trailers tomorrow the government should intervene and remove it from the market and ban it immediately. The price of a a gallon of milk isn't just a product its a foundation of american consumerism and is a consumer food staple. Its like rice in china.
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Norway28674 Posts
On April 21 2017 05:31 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 04:52 Danglars wrote:On April 21 2017 03:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
chaffetz resignation seems like it could potentially be the first domino in a chain, doesn't seem like it could be an isolated incident. The sudden nature says incident, but I can't imagine any that set off a chain and are also plausible. Sexual misconduct, financial corruption, whatever, but every other one I see point to him calmly saying he's not seeking reelection months from now after briefing aides and donors. WaPo was theorizing ambition for gov position in a pretty slanted story. We'll know more later if he really does set up in the private sector somewhere. Rumor has it he's been having an affair. https://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse/status/855140390185324544
wonder if it gives him trouble looking his daughter in the eye
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On April 21 2017 05:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 05:20 zlefin wrote:On April 21 2017 05:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 21 2017 05:09 Mysticesper wrote:
Yeah, I was about to say, you have deaths indirectly caused by _______ (driving under the influence being the prime example) You know, not so sure about that either. However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol. www.drugabuse.gov dude, u cite that part but ignore the part that said it does increase risk. no need to selectively quote like that, not cool. Omg, cry harder bro. The source is there for people to read it themselves. Other bullshit meta studies said one thing, a case-control study conducted by NHTSA showed another. Again missing the point. I can't with you. It's so pointless.
you're just being unreasonable and rude. so no. I'll persist in making valid points. and selectively quoting a source is still dumb.
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The part that gets you high in weed isn’t specifically harmful. Inhaling smoke is harmful, but its not like anyone is smoking a pack of joints. I am sure weed has some impact on your body if used long term, but I doubt that will kill you.
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Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability.
Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in vehicle crashes, including fatal ones Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal crash than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. However, the role played by marijuana in crashes is often unclear because it can be detected in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because people frequently combine it with alcohol. Those involved in vehicle crashes with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the incident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.
Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased after marijuana use—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol.
literally the entire page cites research that says marijuana + driving is a bad time, with the exception of the quoted bit.
i don't have a problem with marijuana being used recreationally apart from it smelling like shit (and i semi-support it being used medically, though i want more research to really understand how it works as a painkiller, etc.). however, the idea that putting something in your body that alters your perception doesn't affect your ability to handle heavy machinery is laughable. you don't win support with alternative facts like those.
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I think the point that pot supporters should be making is comparing it directly to opiods and heroin. having a populace high on pot compared to one high on a drug that can and is activly killing people poor and rich (RIP prince) alike.
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On April 21 2017 05:59 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability.
Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in vehicle crashes, including fatal ones Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal crash than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. However, the role played by marijuana in crashes is often unclear because it can be detected in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because people frequently combine it with alcohol. Those involved in vehicle crashes with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the incident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.
Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased after marijuana use—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol. literally the entire page cites research that says marijuana + driving is a bad time, with the exception of the quoted bit. i don't have a problem with marijuana being used recreationally apart from it smelling like shit (and i semi-support it being used medically, though i want more research to really understand how it works as a painkiller, etc.). however, the idea that putting something in your body that alters your perception doesn't affect your ability to handle heavy machinery is laughable. you don't win support with alternative facts like those.
Yeah, the large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is totally an alternative fact bro.
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Making pot legal will lead to a higher consumption because it will be more easily available. The question is if that is a problem. I think yes. Pot is different from alcohol,alcohol is an upper and pot is a downer. The biggest harm of pot is that overall on average people stop caring and settle for the situation that they are in, It reduces performance in education and work environment and increases the chance of drop out. Comparing it with heroin is not a good thing I think,sure there are things that are far worse then pot but that does not mean that pot itself can not be harmfull. The harm is not so much physical,it is more mental and social. There are people who benefit from pot,but overall those are exceptions. I do agree though that pot does not have a very negative impact on quiet a lot of its users,my guess is that about 10% of pot users will experience the things described above as negative effects,though they might not see it as negative themselves. This is a lower percentage then problem users with heroin,which is probably near 100% but it is still something to worry about.
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Alcohol is at depressant, not a stimulant. It is not an upper.
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The first few drinks it is an upper,only when heavy intoxinated it becomes a downer,at least that is what I know about it.
People who drink a few bears are very social usually,people who smoke pot tend to start isolating themselves and become less social,specially with long term regular usage.
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On April 21 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:
Alcohol is at depressant, not a stimulant. It is not an upper.
As such the rest of the post is equally questionable. Have fun with that one instead zlefin.
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you can question it,but I would like to hear an argument or tell me with which part of my post you don't agree. Then I will get some sources to back up my claims. My answer will be tomorrow though,i am going to sleep now.
I edited my post above to add a few more things.
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On April 21 2017 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 05:59 ticklishmusic wrote:Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability.
Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in vehicle crashes, including fatal ones Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal crash than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. However, the role played by marijuana in crashes is often unclear because it can be detected in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because people frequently combine it with alcohol. Those involved in vehicle crashes with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the incident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.
Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased after marijuana use—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol. literally the entire page cites research that says marijuana + driving is a bad time, with the exception of the quoted bit. i don't have a problem with marijuana being used recreationally apart from it smelling like shit (and i semi-support it being used medically, though i want more research to really understand how it works as a painkiller, etc.). however, the idea that putting something in your body that alters your perception doesn't affect your ability to handle heavy machinery is laughable. you don't win support with alternative facts like those. Yeah, the large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is totally an alternative fact bro.
did you just ignore all of the page you linked, except for the one sentence that supported your point? i was even nice and quoted the page in its entirety.
also, would you say you would be not even a single bit more hesitant to drive after smoking than you would otherwise, or get into a car where you know the driver has been smoking vs. getting into a car where the guy was sober?
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On April 21 2017 05:59 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability.
Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in vehicle crashes, including fatal ones Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal crash than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. However, the role played by marijuana in crashes is often unclear because it can be detected in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because people frequently combine it with alcohol. Those involved in vehicle crashes with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the incident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.
Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased after marijuana use—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol. literally the entire page cites research that says marijuana + driving is a bad time, with the exception of the quoted bit. i don't have a problem with marijuana being used recreationally apart from it smelling like shit (and i semi-support it being used medically, though i want more research to really understand how it works as a painkiller, etc.). however, the idea that putting something in your body that alters your perception doesn't affect your ability to handle heavy machinery is laughable. you don't win support with alternative facts like those.
I was under the impression that smoking didn't affect your motor coordination, and I had to pull over lol. Maybe I'm sensitive to it or something.
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United States42778 Posts
On April 21 2017 06:21 pmh wrote:
you can question it,but I would like to hear an argument or tell me with which part of my post you don't agree. Then I will get some sources to back up my claims. My answer will be tomorrow though,i am going to sleep now.
Alcohol is medically established to be a depressant. Google the words "alcohol" and "depressant" and see what happens.
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Upper and downer are non-scientific terms to describe the effects of drugs. Stimulant and depressant are the closest terms that match up with upper and downer, respectively. Alcohol is a drug that depresses specific aspects of human physiology, some of which have the effect of causing people to seem more energetic at times.
They are vague terms that don’t 100% line up with the true impact of the drug on the person taking it.
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On April 21 2017 06:15 pmh wrote:
Making pot legal will lead to a higher consumption because it will be more easily available. The question is if that is a problem. I think yes. Pot is different from alcohol,alcohol is an upper and pot is a downer. The biggest harm of pot is that overall on average people stop caring and settle for the situation that they are in, It reduces performance in education and work environment and increases the chance of drop out. Comparing it with heroin is not a good thing I think,sure there are things that are far worse then pot but that does not mean that pot itself can not be harmfull. The harm is not so much physical,it is more mental and social. There are people who benefit from pot,but overall those are exceptions.
Alcohol is a downer. Some types of marijuana are uppers (see sativa vs indica). Rates of heroin deaths due to overdoses fall massively in states that have legalized weed. I'm fairly sure your final sentence is the reverse of the actual case. There are some people for whom weed is a bad idea, but those are the exceptions (the main case is that it's not great to use it habitually for people who are actually depressed). Not arguing everyone should do weed or anything, just that it's probably not harmful to the vast majority of people. Abuse is unlikely unless there are already underlying psychological issues.
On April 21 2017 06:27 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 05:59 ticklishmusic wrote:Marijuana significantly impairs judgment, motor coordination, and reaction time, and studies have found a direct relationship between blood THC concentration and impaired driving ability.
Marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently found in the blood of drivers who have been involved in vehicle crashes, including fatal ones Two large European studies found that drivers with THC in their blood were roughly twice as likely to be culpable for a fatal crash than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. However, the role played by marijuana in crashes is often unclear because it can be detected in body fluids for days or even weeks after intoxication and because people frequently combine it with alcohol. Those involved in vehicle crashes with THC in their blood, particularly higher levels, are three to seven times more likely to be responsible for the incident than drivers who had not used drugs or alcohol. The risk associated with marijuana in combination with alcohol appears to be greater than that for either drug by itself.
Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased after marijuana use—in a few cases, the risk doubled or more than doubled.However, a large case-control study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found no significant increased crash risk attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers’ age, gender, race, and presence of alcohol. literally the entire page cites research that says marijuana + driving is a bad time, with the exception of the quoted bit. i don't have a problem with marijuana being used recreationally apart from it smelling like shit (and i semi-support it being used medically, though i want more research to really understand how it works as a painkiller, etc.). however, the idea that putting something in your body that alters your perception doesn't affect your ability to handle heavy machinery is laughable. you don't win support with alternative facts like those. I was under the impression that smoking didn't effect your motor coordination, and I had to pull over lol. Maybe I'm sensitive to it or something.
My experience with it was that it lowered reaction times unless you did it so frequently you were used to it. I think it's illegal to drive under the influence of it in states where it is legal anyways though.
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Also: Marijuana is both a Stimulant and a Depressant... as well as a Hallucinogen.
How that scale tips is based on strain and can also be controlled somewhat by temperature if vaping (in a nutshell, lower temps around 160-170C weigh more heavily toward "stimulant" and higher temps 180-220C weigh more towards "depressant").
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On April 21 2017 06:00 Sermokala wrote:
I think the point that pot supporters should be making is comparing it directly to opiods and heroin. having a populace high on pot compared to one high on a drug that can and is activly killing people poor and rich (RIP prince) alike.
Fatal opioid overdoses would be less common if drug dealers were to accurately label their products. They're often sold in diluted form, with varying concentrations, and sometimes are cut with other substances. So a user switching dealers needs to determine the appropriate dose by trial and error, which often goes horribly wrong.
At least with pot one gets whatever's in the plant without needing to worry about contamination, and differences between plants are smaller than differences between opioid dealers.
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