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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
April 19 2017 19:13 GMT
#147181
A cruise ship with casinos and all sorts of lavish nonsense would be much more fitting. Also totally empty all the time because nobody has any idea where it is.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 19 2017 19:23 GMT
#147182
On April 20 2017 04:06 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 02:50 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So it was incompetence? Also remember that Mattis held a Press Conference defending the decision to send the carrier group to the Peninsula.

Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday that misstatements about the location of a U.S. aircraft carrier supposedly on its way to the waters off the Korean peninsula were not made intentionally.

Earlier this month, White House and Pentagon officials announced that the USS Carl Vinson and its accompanying battle group had been deployed off the coast of the Korean peninsula, a response to a missile test by North Korea. But on Monday, Defense News reported that the Carl Vinson was nowhere near the Korean Peninsula and had instead been photographed near Indonesia.

Reporting that the Carl Vinson had not immediately turned north toward the Korean Peninsula was corroborated by The New York Times, Reuters and others, leaving government officials in the awkward position of having to explain why the aircraft carrier had not been deployed as initially described.

Asked during an interview with CNN whether the misstatements from White House and Pentagon officials had been intentional, Pence replied “Oh, I think not,” and he noted the already strong U.S. military presence in the Asia-Pacific region, including in Japan and South Korea. He did not offer an explanation as to why government officials had said the Carl Vinson was steaming for the Sea of Japan when it was not.

California Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, called the Carl Vinson episode “more than embarrassing” for the U.S.

“Because, of course, if the provocation of saying that caused the North to react and we didn’t have our capabilities in the region, that would compound the problem,” he said on “CBS This Morning,” where he framed Pyongyang’s potential to miniaturize a nuclear device and put it on an intercontinental ballistic missile as “probably the most serious national security crisis this president is gonna face.”

“That point will probably come during this four-year term of the president, so that challenge is coming if something doesn’t change,” he warned.

Pence’s CNN interview took place aboard another aircraft carrier, the USS Ronald Reagan, at the U.S. Yokosuka naval base in Tokyo Bay. There, according to The Associated Press, the vice president addressed the Ronald Reagan’s crew, reiterating to them what he and other White House officials have said in recent days, that the U.S. would “work diligently” with allies to maintain and increase pressure on North Korea but that the military would remain ready.

"The United States of America will always seek peace, but under President Trump, the shield stands guard and the sword stands ready," he said. “Those who would challenge our resolve or readiness should know, we will defeat any attack and meet any use of conventional or nuclear weapons with an overwhelming and effective American response.”


Source

How are they managing to fuck this up?
Did they seriously lose control of an entire carrier group?

The official line was dead simple. "The carrier group is exactly where we want it to be and going where we want it to go". How do you fuck it up so badly that you are forced to admit you don't know where your own major military assets are, or what they are doing...

A 5 year old could have handled this better because they have the wit to say "I meant to do that".


I actually went with the 7D chess theory with this story at first, because I didn't actually believe they could fuck up this badly.

Really hope America learns its lesson not to vote for any more celebrities.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 19 2017 19:26 GMT
#147183
Maybe there should have been an opponent put up to stop this guy whose depth of experience, record of success, and credibility would ensure that there would be no chance that some clown gets elected president. We shouldn't have risked our fortunes on some pie-in-the-sky fantasy candidates.

User was warned for this post
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 19 2017 19:29 GMT
#147184
On April 20 2017 04:26 LegalLord wrote:
Maybe there should have been an opponent put up to stop this guy whose depth of experience, record of success, and credibility would ensure that there would be no chance that some clown gets elected president. We shouldn't have risked our fortunes on some pie-in-the-sky fantasy candidates.

This is some low quality garbage bait. You need to take a couple weeks off before you throw these out.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2017 19:34 GMT
#147185
His new book Fox News: Killing Bill O'Reilly.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 19 2017 19:36 GMT
#147186

The FBI last year used a dossier of allegations of Russian ties to Donald Trump's campaign as part of the justification to win approval to secretly monitor a Trump associate, according to US officials briefed on the investigation.

The dossier has also been cited by FBI Director James Comey in some of his briefings to members of Congress in recent weeks, as one of the sources of information the bureau has used to bolster its investigation, according to US officials briefed on the probe.

This includes approval from the secret court that oversees the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to monitor the communications of Carter Page, two of the officials said. Last year, Page was identified by the Trump campaign as an adviser on national security.

Officials familiar with the process say even if the application to monitor Page included information from the dossier, it would only be after the FBI had corroborated the information through its own investigation. The officials would not say what or how much was corroborated.


www.cnn.com
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
April 19 2017 19:42 GMT
#147187
On April 20 2017 04:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
His new book Fox News: Killing Bill O'Reilly.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/854766528473964544


Such a shame Jon Stewart doesn't currently have a show where he would do a proper commentary for this milestone
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 19 2017 19:49 GMT
#147188
On April 20 2017 04:42 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 04:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
His new book Fox News: Killing Bill O'Reilly.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/854766528473964544


Such a shame Jon Stewart doesn't currently have a show where he would do a proper commentary for this milestone

He will come back for Hannity once some garbage comes out on him.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35167 Posts
April 19 2017 19:50 GMT
#147189
On April 20 2017 04:42 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 04:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
His new book Fox News: Killing Bill O'Reilly.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/854766528473964544


Such a shame Jon Stewart doesn't currently have a show where he would do a proper commentary for this milestone

Nonsense, he basically has carte blanche to go on Colbert's.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
April 19 2017 20:00 GMT
#147190
On April 20 2017 04:13 opisska wrote:
A cruise ship with casinos and all sorts of lavish nonsense would be much more fitting. Also totally empty all the time because nobody has any idea where it is.


and the casino somehow goes bankrupt
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 19 2017 20:19 GMT
#147191
Which is more frightening as Wars start this way. Can only imagine a scenario where the fleet was told one thing then not told a follow up along with nobody in the Admiralty aware of any orders given at all. Thus a fleet goes missing.



Imagine the shitshow if it was revealed that a Submarine was told to try and locate the carrier group before the Facebook post showed it's location.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 19 2017 20:43 GMT
#147192
They should have sent an inflatable aircraft carrier to NK to better cover their tracks.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 20:58:12
April 19 2017 20:57 GMT
#147193
Come to think of it; how is it even all that relevant having an aircraft carrier near NK anyways? between Japan and SK we should have all the airbases we need in the area for anything anyways; adn if you were actually gonna take military action, it'd be more missile based than aircraft based. And even if you were using aircraft heavily, you'd want more than one carrier.
Of course the whole "show of force" things often don't make that much sense to me, since to me we all know what your military force is like already, and parking stuff nearby really doesn't change much. i'm probably just not the kind of person likely to care about such things, different psychology I suppose or something.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
April 19 2017 21:00 GMT
#147194
On April 20 2017 05:57 zlefin wrote:
Come to think of it; how is it even all that relevant having an aircraft carrier near NK anyways? between Japan and SK we should have all the airbases we need in the area for anything anyways; adn if you were actually gonna take military action, it'd be more missile based than aircraft based. And even if you were using aircraft heavily, you'd want more than one carrier.
Of course the whole "show of force" things often don't make that much sense to me, since to me we all know what your military force is like already, and parking stuff nearby really doesn't change much. i'm probably just not the kind of person likely to care about such things, different psychology I suppose or something.


it's a more explicit sign of dominance to wave a massive, hulking aircraft carrier in Kim Jong Un's face
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14102 Posts
April 19 2017 21:02 GMT
#147195
We group up almost all of our naval assets into various carrier based battlegroups and NK has naval vessels? I don't know man I don't think there are real reasonings to some of this.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3292 Posts
April 19 2017 21:31 GMT
#147196
On April 20 2017 04:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
His new book Fox News: Killing Bill O'Reilly.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/854766528473964544

Shit, I was gonna make that joke
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1399 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 21:54:33
April 19 2017 21:51 GMT
#147197
On April 20 2017 02:31 KwarK wrote:
You're going to increasingly absurd lengths to try and explain why your description of the Kim regime being doomed, the people deserting the regime en masse, the state losing control of the country, the collapse of the military and state forces, the military going rogue and the end of North Korea as a state, all of which happen due to internal collapse, does not amount to a revolution.


This entire argument could be settled if you'd just fucking admit that you were wrong when you said that a trade embargo would cause the collapse of the Korean state instead of this bullshit where you go "I never said it would collapse, I just described a collapse and implied that the things that happen when a state collapses would result from an embargo".


I don't know exactly how much north korea depends on trade with china but a full trade embargo including china would probably undermine the state in the long run. If only because it is not only the population that would loose resources, the state itself would also loose resources undermining their capability to control the population.
It wont be a revolution today or next year, decades of indoctrinating the population wont allow for that. But if it where to continue for 5-10 years then it could. I doubt it will be the population who would revolt though,but other high ranking officials might stage a coup.
But all this is kinda irrelevant I think. China does not want the regime to collapse at, least not now. They would not allow democracy in north korea,it would remain a communist state so they would have to find another leader to takes kim,s place. And a credible leader to take kims place is not that easy to find,it might even be that the population of north korea would revolt against such a move! (I have no clue how far the indoctrination has gone and how loyal the population is to kim). So while probably not to found of kim particular,he is for now the only viable option there is for china.
For the usa to think that china would wilingly give up their influence over north korea and allow it to become democratic and reunite with the south,i think that is just silly tbh. Why would china ever do that? I expect it will be 30-50 years at least before reunification but lets hope I am wrong.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-19 22:39:16
April 19 2017 22:30 GMT
#147198
I find this mildly amusing. Maybe don't vote for the exxon CEO with ties to Russia next time.

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Krikkitone
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1451 Posts
April 19 2017 22:40 GMT
#147199
On April 20 2017 06:51 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2017 02:31 KwarK wrote:
You're going to increasingly absurd lengths to try and explain why your description of the Kim regime being doomed, the people deserting the regime en masse, the state losing control of the country, the collapse of the military and state forces, the military going rogue and the end of North Korea as a state, all of which happen due to internal collapse, does not amount to a revolution.


This entire argument could be settled if you'd just fucking admit that you were wrong when you said that a trade embargo would cause the collapse of the Korean state instead of this bullshit where you go "I never said it would collapse, I just described a collapse and implied that the things that happen when a state collapses would result from an embargo".


I don't know exactly how much north korea depends on trade with china but a full trade embargo including china would probably undermine the state in the long run. If only because it is not only the population that would loose resources, the state itself would also loose resources undermining their capability to control the population.
It wont be a revolution today or next year, decades of indoctrinating the population wont allow for that. But if it where to continue for 5-10 years then it could. I doubt it will be the population who would revolt though,but other high ranking officials might stage a coup.
But all this is kinda irrelevant I think. China does not want the regime to collapse at, least not now. They would not allow democracy in north korea,it would remain a communist state so they would have to find another leader to takes kim,s place. And a credible leader to take kims place is not that easy to find,it might even be that the population of north korea would revolt against such a move! (I have no clue how far the indoctrination has gone and how loyal the population is to kim). So while probably not to found of kim particular,he is for now the only viable option there is for china.
For the usa to think that china would wilingly give up their influence over north korea and allow it to become democratic and reunite with the south,i think that is just silly tbh. Why would china ever do that? I expect it will be 30-50 years at least before reunification but lets hope I am wrong.


More likely would be North Korea "reuniting" with China in the Hong Kong model.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22078 Posts
April 19 2017 22:40 GMT
#147200
On April 20 2017 07:30 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
I find this mildly amusing. Maybe don't vote for the exxon CEO with ties to Russia next time.

https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/854789080625885186

Well it is certainly bold and unexpected...

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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