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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 15:08:17
March 30 2017 15:07 GMT
#144501
The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.

Senator Mark Warner, the Democrat ranking member, and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Republican Senator Richard Burr, appeared together at a press conference to give an update on the investigation ahead of the first witnesses appearing today.

Mr Warner said: “We know about the hacking, and selective leaks, but what really concerns me as a former tech guy is at least some reports – and we’ve got to get to the bottom of this – that there were upwards of a thousand internet trolls working out of a facility in Russia, in effect taking over a series of computers which are then called botnets, that can then generate news down to specific areas.

“It’s been reported to me, and we’ve got to find this out, whether they were able to affect specific areas in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, where you would not have been receiving off of whoever your vendor might have been, Trump versus Clinton, during the waning days of the election, but instead, ‘Clinton is sick’, or ‘Clinton is taking money from whoever for some source’ … fake news.

“An outside foreign adversary effectively sought to hi-jack the most critical democratic process, the election of a President, and in that process, decided to favour one candidate over another.”

The key states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania which Mr Warner named all fell narrowly - and unexpectedly - to Donald Trump.

The Senate Committee will examine whether the Trump campaign co-ordinated with the Russians to hire the army of trolls.

Mr Warner and Mr Burr were keen to stress they were unified in the investigation, in spite of reported in-fighting along political lines.

Mr Burr said he did not want to “take snapshots” of where the investigation stood but hinted the committee had spoken to Ret Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, Mr Trump’s former Director of National Intelligence who stepped down from his post after ties to foreign governments were revealed.

A parallel investigation is running in the lower House of Representatives, but this has been marred by calls for chairman Devin Nunes to step down following allegations he is co-operating with the White House.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8056 Posts
March 30 2017 15:11 GMT
#144502
On March 31 2017 00:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.

Senator Mark Warner, the Democrat ranking member, and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Republican Senator Richard Burr, appeared together at a press conference to give an update on the investigation ahead of the first witnesses appearing today.

Mr Warner said: “We know about the hacking, and selective leaks, but what really concerns me as a former tech guy is at least some reports – and we’ve got to get to the bottom of this – that there were upwards of a thousand internet trolls working out of a facility in Russia, in effect taking over a series of computers which are then called botnets, that can then generate news down to specific areas.

“It’s been reported to me, and we’ve got to find this out, whether they were able to affect specific areas in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, where you would not have been receiving off of whoever your vendor might have been, Trump versus Clinton, during the waning days of the election, but instead, ‘Clinton is sick’, or ‘Clinton is taking money from whoever for some source’ … fake news.

“An outside foreign adversary effectively sought to hi-jack the most critical democratic process, the election of a President, and in that process, decided to favour one candidate over another.”

The key states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania which Mr Warner named all fell narrowly - and unexpectedly - to Donald Trump.

The Senate Committee will examine whether the Trump campaign co-ordinated with the Russians to hire the army of trolls.

Mr Warner and Mr Burr were keen to stress they were unified in the investigation, in spite of reported in-fighting along political lines.

Mr Burr said he did not want to “take snapshots” of where the investigation stood but hinted the committee had spoken to Ret Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, Mr Trump’s former Director of National Intelligence who stepped down from his post after ties to foreign governments were revealed.

A parallel investigation is running in the lower House of Representatives, but this has been marred by calls for chairman Devin Nunes to step down following allegations he is co-operating with the White House.


Source

But remember, the russians are good guys. They just got a bullshit candidate elected by hacking parties and burrying america under a diarrhea of fake news and misleading informations, nothing to worry about.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 30 2017 15:20 GMT
#144503
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 15:27:11
March 30 2017 15:22 GMT
#144504
On March 30 2017 23:19 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2017 20:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Why is this woman giving interviews or even appearing in public?



Everytime she speaks the GOP gets a political ad out of it.

She did nothing wrong; her resignation was just taking one for the team.

Yes, the Democratic Party apparatus is stupid enough to think that people buy that. Trump winning would not dissuade them.

In two years, she was the victim of a vast right-wing campaign of disinformation. Count on it.

On March 31 2017 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847435163143454723

He'll lose that fight. All of them ran ahead of Trump's vote percentages and know it's death to back down opposition to Obamacare-life or other insane ideas. Checks and balances in action. His best move is to compromise heavily to tear off freedom caucus votes (seen in some of the later AHCA interviews some were ready to be peeled away for practically nothing).
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 30 2017 15:25 GMT
#144505
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43867 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 15:26:20
March 30 2017 15:26 GMT
#144506
On March 31 2017 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847435163143454723

Needs more "SAD!" and "LOSING".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22209 Posts
March 30 2017 15:26 GMT
#144507
On March 31 2017 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847435163143454723

Ah there it is. Trump attacking the people who won the Republican the House and Senate.

This is gonne be good.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 30 2017 15:27 GMT
#144508
On March 31 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2017 23:19 LegalLord wrote:
On March 30 2017 20:54 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Why is this woman giving interviews or even appearing in public?

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/847262275484262400

Everytime she speaks the GOP gets a political ad out of it.

She did nothing wrong; her resignation was just taking one for the team.

Yes, the Democratic Party apparatus is stupid enough to think that people buy that. Trump winning would not dissuade them.

In two years, she was the victim of a vast right-wing campaign of disinformation. Count on it.


Which will enable the Democrats to lose once more, this woman just needs to fade off into political nonexistence.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 30 2017 15:29 GMT
#144509
I don't get it. Is the GOP strategy right now to turn themselves into a minority party by ignoring the freedom caucus? I wonder what the strategy in 2018 races will be if this continues - would they be better off pulling resources from tea party members? I never thought I'd see a real 3rd party, but it does seem a bit like we have one now... Too bad all they do is vote no.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
March 30 2017 15:29 GMT
#144510
On March 30 2017 21:42 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Pastor Jerry Morrell was not playing to his audience. “I was asked if Donald Trump is a man of God,” the evangelical preacher told the congregation of The Way of Holiness church on the outskirts of Buckhannon, West Virginia. “I said: ‘No, I don’t see him as a man of God. Or, at this point, a godly man. I think he’s a man whose heart can be touched by God. I think he may be open to that’.”

A silence fell. The cries of acclamation greeting much of the Pentecostal pastor’s sermon drained away.

“Y’all got real quiet when I said that but I have to tell it like it is,” Morrell pressed on. “I’m praying for our president. Let him have the wisdom not to say some things and not to put some things out on Twitter,” he said. “We ask you to set a guard over Mr Trump’s mouth and Twitter”.

On that, there was agreement. Eighty percent of white evangelicals backed Trump for president, but worshippers at The Way of Holiness church were not without their doubts.

“To be honest with you, I voted for Trump but if I’d had another choice I probably would not have,” said Thrayron Morgan, a grandmother from a military family attending church that day. I pointed out there was another choice: Hillary Clinton. “No! That’s not my other choice. We’ve had enough of that,” she said with a laugh. “It was very difficult for me. Very difficult. In fact it was a toss-up between not voting at all and voting for him. I really had to pray about that.”

Morgan had lots of problems with Trump but a big one was the way he spoke about women and immigrants. “I don’t think he should talk about people like that. Even the homosexuals, you hate the sin not the sinner. As a Christian, I don’t believe in treating people the way he treated some people,” she said.

Morgan’s mind was made up by the supreme court. She wants to see a court “following Godly principles” and she had little doubt that Clinton would have nominated the wrong kind of justices. “That’s important to me. On abortion number one. Same-sex marriage. Anything to do with either one of those. And I have a feeling there may be some issues come up even later that may touch on Christian principles too. I have no clue what, but you never know when something might come up that’s against my beliefs,” she said.

In parts of West Virginia, it is said there are two reasons to vote: God and coal. Both have been in retreat for years. In a state where families still pray at the restaurant dinner table, and mines were once the engine of prosperity, Trump won with the promise of revival.

But there’s a paradox. Evangelicals may doubt Trump’s commitment to God, but they calculate he will be good for their push to inject more religion into American life. On the other hand, those who voted for Trump because he promised to bring back coalmines often admire his business skills – but they do have doubts about whether he can deliver.

So far, conservative Christians have not had reason to be disappointed. Trump’s appointment of evangelicals to his cabinet – including an attorney general who advocates an end to the wall between church and state, and an education secretary who wants to “advance God’s kingdom” through public funding of religious schools – has sent the right signals. And just in case Trump veers off course, evangelicals are counting on Mike Pence, an advocate of teaching creationism alongside Darwinism, to steer the president straight.


The most eye opening of this article:

Show nested quote +
The belief that America’s leaders have been more interested in foreign adventures than looking after those at the bottom of the pile back home runs through many West Virginia communities.

Ricky Farnsworth flies a Confederate battle flag from an improvised steel rod flagpole outside his trailer home. When I ask why he’s hoisted such a divisive symbol in a state mostly carved out of Virginia to join the Union cause, he smiles.

“I will not fly an American flag other than that one. I would rather have a Chinese flag, a Japanese flag, a Russian flag. Fuck the United States. They’re the most cruelest country there is. Letting your own people starve and sending aid overseas. Going over and killing people in other countries and then building them back up. What business did we have in Vietnam? What business did we have in Iraq?” he said.

Farnsworth used to work on oil rigs but the toll of injuries, including a lost finger, and the general wearing down of his body forced him out of a job. Now, at 59, he lives on a little more than a $1,000 a month in disability payments. Farnsworth is an unflinching if maverick Trump supporter. He denounces the rich but believes the billionaire president will Make America Great Again. He speaks of Obama as “the black guy” and said he knows for sure the former president is not American. Yet he supports Obamacare and doesn’t understand why the US can’t replicate Canada’s health system.

“Money don’t excite me. I don’t worry about it even though I don’t have it. I don’t hardly buy food because it’s too damn expensive,” he said. “I go to the diner and eat a little bit. Two beets, a half spoonful of bacon bits, a half spoonful of shredded cheese. I’ll put a little bit of coleslaw, a little bit of cottage cheese. Four peaches. I’ll eat that. I ate that yesterday. I ain’t eaten nothing since that. I won’t eat nothing today. That’s what I live on.” That and a steady supply of chewing tobacco.

Farnsworth sees Trump’s wealth as evidence that he is looking out for ordinary Americans.

“Why would he downgrade himself if he didn’t want to help the United States? His home was more valuable than the White House,” he said.

The retired oil worker regards taxes with the same scorn as much of conservative America, although his objection comes with a twist not so often heard among Republicans. Why, he asks, should the poor pay taxes when the rich don’t contribute their fair share? Yet Farnsworth doesn’t blame Trump for avoiding taxes with his business maneuverings.


Source

That is how terrorism is born and far right militias take hold.

I dont agree with the last bit... that quote could just as well have come from some 70s era hippie. Minus the confederate flag.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 30 2017 15:46 GMT
#144511
On March 30 2017 22:55 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2017 22:49 zlefin wrote:
It is funny(odd) how the restrictions on things like pilots are so much stricter than on politicians.

I would like to have some sort of standardized routine dementia screening given how old many politicians are.


I know this is tongue in cheek, but this is a really slippery slope. The election system needs to be as straightforward as possible with as little points of influence by any government institution as possible. Because simplicity is the only "default", anything else can easily lead to manipulation by those that happen to be in power - once people start setting up conditions, the system will only go to less fair (see gerrymondering for a great US example). Naively, it would be cool to have competency tests for politicians, the only problem is the insurmountable lack of an independent body to conduct those. It's really the same story about how the best system would be enlightened monarchy, if only it was possible to reliably obtain an enlightened monarch, which isn't, so we are stuck with democracy.


just because there's a potential slippery slope doesn't mean you will always slip; it is possible to stand on slopes, especially if you put in precautions and systems specifically to address it.

There is insufficient evidence to conclude that things such as competency and sanity tests would necessarily lead to a worse overall result; they might, they might not, and it undoubtedly depends in part on how exactly they're constructed, and how carefully they're setup to prevent a side from abusing them.

it's amply documented that institutions matter, and that setting up good institutions has strong long term benefits. so this is just another question of setting up institutions.

there's plenty of tweaks that can be done that can make systems a little bit better; just like changing voting schemes can do.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22209 Posts
March 30 2017 15:54 GMT
#144512
On March 31 2017 00:29 Nevuk wrote:
I don't get it. Is the GOP strategy right now to turn themselves into a minority party by ignoring the freedom caucus? I wonder what the strategy in 2018 races will be if this continues - would they be better off pulling resources from tea party members? I never thought I'd see a real 3rd party, but it does seem a bit like we have one now... Too bad all they do is vote no.

I don't think this is a GOP strategy. I think its just Trump.
The freedom caucus is more popular then the GOP themselves (since many of them primaried more moderate Republicans in the wake of Obamacare)

A lot of the freedom caucus represent the 'angry white man' who voted Trump. He is pretty much going to war with his own voting block. (hence my delight at Trumps tweet).
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 16:11:31
March 30 2017 16:02 GMT
#144513
On March 31 2017 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847435163143454723


I love this. T_D has been banging the 4-D chess drum saying Trump didn't want the healthcare bill either. Trump is now attacking people for not supporting the bill. There is nothing to hide behind. Trump wanted the bill to pass and did all he could to make it happen.

The only potential 4-D chess is if this is a move towards Banon's destruction of the state. If his goal is to actually make the government paralyzed, 4-D as hell.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 16:27:30
March 30 2017 16:26 GMT
#144514
On March 31 2017 01:02 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2017 00:20 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847435163143454723


I love this. T_D has been banging the 4-D chess drum saying Trump didn't want the healthcare bill either. Trump is now attacking people for not supporting the bill. There is nothing to hide behind. Trump wanted the bill to pass and did all he could to make it happen.

The only potential 4-D chess is if this is a move towards Banon's destruction of the state. If his goal is to actually make the government paralyzed, 4-D as hell.


Pretty hilarious response -



Something tells me Trump didn't bargain for all this defiance and resistance when he ran for president.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 30 2017 16:29 GMT
#144515
I want Trump to write a book afterwards "All the things I did not foresee".
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 30 2017 16:55 GMT
#144516
Which Paul Ryan has said will not happen...

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
March 30 2017 16:57 GMT
#144517
This is getting real juicy, particularly since Trump decided to throw his hat in with the "moderate Republicans" most opposed to his candidacy in the first place. I expect a government shutdown will be upon us this fall.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-30 17:02:09
March 30 2017 16:59 GMT
#144518
On March 31 2017 00:29 Nevuk wrote:
I don't get it. Is the GOP strategy right now to turn themselves into a minority party by ignoring the freedom caucus? I wonder what the strategy in 2018 races will be if this continues - would they be better off pulling resources from tea party members? I never thought I'd see a real 3rd party, but it does seem a bit like we have one now... Too bad all they do is vote no.

They empowered that caucus by refusing to work with Democrats since 2008. You are watching the Republicans in the House have the collective "Maybe our plan was bad" moment. It might not have been this bad if the Senate hadn't also adopted the same plan.

On March 31 2017 01:57 farvacola wrote:
This is getting real juicy, particularly since Trump decided to throw his hat in with the "moderate Republicans" most opposed to his candidacy in the first place. I expect a government shutdown will be upon us this fall.


The debt ceiling is coming up in April. We will see if the freedom caucus tries anything.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
March 30 2017 17:03 GMT
#144519
I think the debt ceiling issue will be finagled in one way or another, whereas the budget will prove an immovable object in legislative terms lol.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 30 2017 17:04 GMT
#144520
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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