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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
February 28 2017 22:45 GMT
#139881
On March 01 2017 04:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
President Donald Trump on Tuesday dodged responsibility for a botched mission he ordered in Yemen last month, placing the onus on the military and Barack Obama’s administration instead.

Bill Owens, the father of Chief Petty Officer William “Ryan” Owens, the Navy SEAL who died in the operation, demanded an investigation into his son’s death over the weekend. Owens further revealed he couldn’t bear to meet Trump at the airport as Ryan’s casket was carried off the military plane last month.

Asked about the matter during an interview with Fox News’ “Fox ‘n’ Friends,” Trump repeatedly said “they” were responsible for the outcome of the mission, in reference to the military.

“This was a mission that was started before I got here. This was something they wanted to do,” he said. “They came to me, they explained what they wanted to do ― the generals ― who are very respected, my generals are the most respected that we’ve had in many decades, I believe. And they lost Ryan.

“I can understand people saying that. I’d feel ― ‘What’s worse?’ There’s nothing worse,” he added. “This was something that they were looking at for a long time doing, and according to [Defense Secretary Jim] Mattis it was a very successful mission. They got tremendous amounts of information.”

The raid yielded no significant intelligence, U.S. officials told NBC News on Monday. Earlier this month, however, Pentagon officials said it produced “actionable intelligence.” So, too, did White House press secretary Sean Spicer, who initially called the raid “highly successful.”

“I think anyone who undermines the success of that raid owes an apology and [does] a disservice to the life of Chief Owens,” he said earlier this month. “The raid, the action that was taken in Yemen was a huge success.”

Presidents have traditionally accepted responsibility for their decisions, no matter the circumstances. President Harry Truman popularized the words, “The Buck Stops Here” and kept a sign of the phrase on his desk in the Oval Office. His successors took those words to heart, accepting ultimate responsibility in the wake of some of the nation’s biggest mishaps.

“I’m the president. And I’m always responsible,” President Barack Obama said in 2012 following an attack on a U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in which four Americans died.

“In case you were wondering, in any of your reporting, who’s responsible? I take responsibility,” he said again in 2010 after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf.

President George W. Bush in 2005 owned up to his administration’s failings in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, admitting that “the federal government didn’t fully do its job right.” And he accepted responsibility for his costly decision to go to war with Iraq in 2003, despite faulty intelligence.

President Ronald Reagan in 1987 owned up to his administration’s dealings amid what is known as the Iran-Contra scandal, telling the nation in a prime-time address from the Oval Office that he took “full responsibility” for his administration.

“As angry as I may be about activities undertaken without my knowledge, I am still accountable for those activities,” he said. “As disappointed as I may be in some who served me, I’m still the one who must answer to the American people for this behavior. And as personally distasteful as I find secret bank accounts and diverted funds - well, as the Navy would say, this happened on my watch.”


Source

I remember a while back people were saying this might be a wake-up call for trump, showing that his actions have real consequences.

Evidently, being president hasn't given him a sense of responsibility for his actions. A lifetime of pushing blame onto others continues.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10719 Posts
February 28 2017 22:48 GMT
#139882
On March 01 2017 06:49 Plansix wrote:
I will laugh forever if the Republicans shut down the government when they control all three branches.


what makes you think it would be any diffrent to their retarded voterbase than last time? Controlling even more of the goverment? Lol?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 28 2017 22:58 GMT
#139883
On March 01 2017 07:26 LegalLord wrote:
Meh, much as I wish it were true, John Rambo McCain is far from irrelevant. He represents the all-important "all wars, all the time, under the illusion that it projects strength" faction in DC.

Lindsey Graham is correctly perceived as a tag-along nobody though.

Well, the reason that option was on there was 30% joke, 70% their reaction to Trump saying he wanted to cut 37% of the state department budget and reallocate it to defense. Even Graham is saying that's a non-starter, but McConnell is also saying it and that is what's actually important. McCain seems mostly like a party line voter who complains a lot.


Personally, I think Ryan is the least powerful after a bit of thought. Aside from procedural house things he's a total figurehead. He seems too cowardly to actually use any of his power for anything. The house freedom caucus has basically made him their bitch, and the rest of the country knows it.

The country would be better off if a person less of the party liked were Speaker - he was a compromise choice, the only person both sides could stand. If it were a person one side or the other despised, it would help them figure out which side was actually going to win politically in the end.


In spite of the liberal boogeyman he is portrayed as, all of Steven Bannon's power relies on being able to make Trump act in a predictable fashion. To me this says that Trump is still where the real power is in that relationship. Calling him President Bannon seems mostly to serve as a way to get under Trump's skin.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-28 23:05:14
February 28 2017 23:02 GMT
#139884
On March 01 2017 07:48 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2017 06:49 Plansix wrote:
I will laugh forever if the Republicans shut down the government when they control all three branches.


what makes you think it would be any diffrent to their retarded voterbase than last time? Controlling even more of the goverment? Lol?

Most of those state rely on the federal goverment to pay the bills. The last time they shut down the goverment, it backfired in amazing fashion. And this time there is no Obama to try to blame.

Edit: Session is a complete moron. My god, can we please waste more time an money on busting weed dealers. Of course, he might be assuming the weed dealers are black....hmmmmm.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35153 Posts
February 28 2017 23:04 GMT
#139885
On March 01 2017 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Jeff Sessions is an unabashed idiot when it comes to cannabis.
Show nested quote +

“States can pass whatever laws they choose,” Sessions told a crowd of attorneys general at the National Association of Attorneys General Winter Meeting. “But I’m not sure we’re going to be a better, healthier nation if we have marijuana being sold at every corner grocery store.”

Sessions then appeared to criticize a column The Washington Post published Tuesday by Sam Kamin, professor of marijuana law and policy at the University of Denver. In the op-ed, Kamin argues that the opioid crisis is “a reason to expand access to marijuana rather than to contract it.” A 2016 study from Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health found “adverse consequences of opioid use” decreased over time in states where marijuana is legalized as individuals substituted marijuana for opioids to treat pain.

But Sessions scoffed at Kamin’s reasoning.

“Give me a break,” Sessions said. “This is the kind of argument that has been out there. [It’s] almost a desperate attempt to defend the harmlessness of marijuana or even benefits. I doubt that’s true. Maybe science will prove me wrong. ... My best view is that we don’t need to be legalizing marijuana.”


Tom Angell, chairman of drug policy reform group Marijuana Majority, called Sessions’ opiate comments “ridiculous.”

“Several studies have already shown that states with legal marijuana access see reduced opioid problems,” Angell said in a statement Tuesday. “If the attorney general really cares about public health and safety, he’ll stop relying on ‘alternative facts’ ... This administration should respect science and, at the very least, needs to uphold the president’s repeated campaign pledges to respect state cannabis laws.”

Nationwide support for marijuana legalization is at a record high. A survey from Quinnipiac University released last week found 71 percent of American voters want the federal government to respect state marijuana laws.

Still, the White House appears to be preparing for a crackdown on recreational cannabis. White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said last week that states with legalized marijuana legislation will see “greater enforcement” of federal laws surrounding the plant ― a move that could shatter President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign promise to honor state marijuana laws.

On Monday, Sessions decried marijuana legalization to reporters at the Justice Department, claiming “real violence” can be attributed to the “current levels of THC in marijuana.”


Source

It's interesting watching the right try to reconcile states rights with cracking down on states for passing laws though. Wouldn't hurt if the AG had the slightest clue what he was talking about.

Gotta find a way to stuff people into those privatized prisons and take advantage of prison labor.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23246 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-28 23:08:14
February 28 2017 23:07 GMT
#139886
On March 01 2017 08:04 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2017 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Jeff Sessions is an unabashed idiot when it comes to cannabis.

“States can pass whatever laws they choose,” Sessions told a crowd of attorneys general at the National Association of Attorneys General Winter Meeting. “But I’m not sure we’re going to be a better, healthier nation if we have marijuana being sold at every corner grocery store.”

Sessions then appeared to criticize a column The Washington Post published Tuesday by Sam Kamin, professor of marijuana law and policy at the University of Denver. In the op-ed, Kamin argues that the opioid crisis is “a reason to expand access to marijuana rather than to contract it.” A 2016 study from Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health found “adverse consequences of opioid use” decreased over time in states where marijuana is legalized as individuals substituted marijuana for opioids to treat pain.

But Sessions scoffed at Kamin’s reasoning.

“Give me a break,” Sessions said. “This is the kind of argument that has been out there. [It’s] almost a desperate attempt to defend the harmlessness of marijuana or even benefits. I doubt that’s true. Maybe science will prove me wrong. ... My best view is that we don’t need to be legalizing marijuana.”


Tom Angell, chairman of drug policy reform group Marijuana Majority, called Sessions’ opiate comments “ridiculous.”

“Several studies have already shown that states with legal marijuana access see reduced opioid problems,” Angell said in a statement Tuesday. “If the attorney general really cares about public health and safety, he’ll stop relying on ‘alternative facts’ ... This administration should respect science and, at the very least, needs to uphold the president’s repeated campaign pledges to respect state cannabis laws.”

Nationwide support for marijuana legalization is at a record high. A survey from Quinnipiac University released last week found 71 percent of American voters want the federal government to respect state marijuana laws.

Still, the White House appears to be preparing for a crackdown on recreational cannabis. White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said last week that states with legalized marijuana legislation will see “greater enforcement” of federal laws surrounding the plant ― a move that could shatter President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign promise to honor state marijuana laws.

On Monday, Sessions decried marijuana legalization to reporters at the Justice Department, claiming “real violence” can be attributed to the “current levels of THC in marijuana.”


Source

It's interesting watching the right try to reconcile states rights with cracking down on states for passing laws though. Wouldn't hurt if the AG had the slightest clue what he was talking about.

Gotta find a way to stuff people into those privatized prisons and take advantage of prison labor.


Worth noting that the drug war was started as a way to criminalize political opposition/certain social groups. Not irrelevant in the current political climate.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 28 2017 23:08 GMT
#139887
On March 01 2017 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2017 08:04 Gahlo wrote:
On March 01 2017 07:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Jeff Sessions is an unabashed idiot when it comes to cannabis.

“States can pass whatever laws they choose,” Sessions told a crowd of attorneys general at the National Association of Attorneys General Winter Meeting. “But I’m not sure we’re going to be a better, healthier nation if we have marijuana being sold at every corner grocery store.”

Sessions then appeared to criticize a column The Washington Post published Tuesday by Sam Kamin, professor of marijuana law and policy at the University of Denver. In the op-ed, Kamin argues that the opioid crisis is “a reason to expand access to marijuana rather than to contract it.” A 2016 study from Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health found “adverse consequences of opioid use” decreased over time in states where marijuana is legalized as individuals substituted marijuana for opioids to treat pain.

But Sessions scoffed at Kamin’s reasoning.

“Give me a break,” Sessions said. “This is the kind of argument that has been out there. [It’s] almost a desperate attempt to defend the harmlessness of marijuana or even benefits. I doubt that’s true. Maybe science will prove me wrong. ... My best view is that we don’t need to be legalizing marijuana.”


Tom Angell, chairman of drug policy reform group Marijuana Majority, called Sessions’ opiate comments “ridiculous.”

“Several studies have already shown that states with legal marijuana access see reduced opioid problems,” Angell said in a statement Tuesday. “If the attorney general really cares about public health and safety, he’ll stop relying on ‘alternative facts’ ... This administration should respect science and, at the very least, needs to uphold the president’s repeated campaign pledges to respect state cannabis laws.”

Nationwide support for marijuana legalization is at a record high. A survey from Quinnipiac University released last week found 71 percent of American voters want the federal government to respect state marijuana laws.

Still, the White House appears to be preparing for a crackdown on recreational cannabis. White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said last week that states with legalized marijuana legislation will see “greater enforcement” of federal laws surrounding the plant ― a move that could shatter President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign promise to honor state marijuana laws.

On Monday, Sessions decried marijuana legalization to reporters at the Justice Department, claiming “real violence” can be attributed to the “current levels of THC in marijuana.”


Source

It's interesting watching the right try to reconcile states rights with cracking down on states for passing laws though. Wouldn't hurt if the AG had the slightest clue what he was talking about.

Gotta find a way to stuff people into those privatized prisons and take advantage of prison labor.


Worth noting that the drug war was started as a way to criminalize political opposition. Not irrelevant in the current political climate.

I said it a long time ago that Sessions would go after weed, when the weed was in black neighborhoods.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-28 23:23:46
February 28 2017 23:23 GMT
#139888
Speaking of Ryan...why do people consistently talk him up as the intellectual and moral leader of the GOP? He is such a failure in both categories you wouldn't have to look far to find a better person for those titles.
Never Knows Best.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7890 Posts
February 28 2017 23:28 GMT
#139889
On March 01 2017 08:23 Slaughter wrote:
Speaking of Ryan...why do people consistently talk him up as the intellectual and moral leader of the GOP? He is such a failure in both categories you wouldn't have to look far to find a better person for those titles.

He presents really well, looks serious and it's basically impossible to find anyone in the GOP these days that has the support of the base and that is not a total, utter fraud.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-28 23:34:02
February 28 2017 23:33 GMT
#139890
We were talking about the polling misses in 2016 earlier, Nate Silver has been doing a series of retrospective articles on the election that is pretty decent.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-real-story-of-2016/

On March 01 2017 08:23 Slaughter wrote:
Speaking of Ryan...why do people consistently talk him up as the intellectual and moral leader of the GOP? He is such a failure in both categories you wouldn't have to look far to find a better person for those titles.

Of the House Freedom caucus/Tea Party people he comes across as both the most intelligent and the most moral. .
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35153 Posts
February 28 2017 23:37 GMT
#139891
On March 01 2017 08:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2017 08:23 Slaughter wrote:
Speaking of Ryan...why do people consistently talk him up as the intellectual and moral leader of the GOP? He is such a failure in both categories you wouldn't have to look far to find a better person for those titles.

He presents really well, looks serious and it's basically impossible to find anyone in the GOP these days that has the support of the base and that is not a total, utter fraud.

That's what people see? Every time I look at him it looks like somebody punched him in the nose and he's trying to not tear up over it.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
February 28 2017 23:40 GMT
#139892
People taking Paul Ryan seriously is sooooo 2012.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
March 01 2017 00:52 GMT
#139893
Lol. This is getting absurd. Do we have to arm ourselves and take to the streets to get people to listen?

https://thinkprogress.org/229-house-republicans-just-voted-to-keep-trumps-tax-returns-secret-a6843e9a6260#.48at4rlc6

https://thinkprogress.org/house-republicans-government-information-trump-russia-852121abe2d6#.gvrie2yxf
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
March 01 2017 01:19 GMT
#139894
So people who have sat in on the speech for tonight have said that it has a lot of calls for Unity. I wonder how this plays out and if he has a less bombastic speech for tonight than I expected
Something witty
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
March 01 2017 01:23 GMT
#139895
He reportedly brought the families of people killed by illegal immigrants, so I wouldn't count on it.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 01 2017 01:26 GMT
#139896
WASHINGTON ― President Donald Trump said recent threats to Jewish institutions could be intended to make “others look bad,” Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro (D) told reporters Tuesday following the president’s meeting with a group of state attorneys general.

Shapiro declined to speculate on what Trump meant. The White House and other attorneys general contacted by The Huffington Post did not respond to requests for comment. But Trump has previously suggested that political opponents who wanted to make him look bad, rather than actual anti-Semites, were behind a recent rise in anti-Semitism.

It’s the kind of language that echoes what white nationalists and far-right conspiracy theorists have been saying about the waves of bomb threats directed against Jewish facilities this year.

“Some of the signs you’ll see are not put up by the people that love or like Donald Trump,” the president said at a press conference earlier this month, when a reporter asked him about “a rise in anti-Semitism around the country, some of it by supporters in your name.”

“Some of those signs and some of that anger is caused by the other side,” Trump said at the Feb. 16 news conference. “They’ll do signs, and they’ll do drawings that are inappropriate. It won’t be my people. It will be the people on the other side to anger people like you.”

At least 13 Jewish community centers and eight day schools received threatening phone calls on Monday, bringing the total number of bomb threats against Jewish institutions since the start of the year to over 90. Some locations have now been targeted as many as three times. HuffPost is tracking the threats here.

Like Trump, white nationalists and neo-Nazis also claim that people other than anti-Semites may be behind the anti-Semitic incidents. They just think it’s Jewish people themselves.

“When I see these bomb threats, I just assume it is Jews doing it,” Andrew Anglin, founder of the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website — who has also argued that the Holocaust is a hoax — wrote on his blog last week. Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke sent a tweet that implied the same. Richard Spencer, a prominent white nationalist, told HuffPost on Monday that he “seriously” doubts that the person or people behind the threats supports white nationalism, because making those threats only hurts their cause.

Conservative conspiracy theorists appear to share Trump’s theory about political opponents being involved. Mike Cernovich, a Twitter personality who has spread conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton’s health, blamed the left for funding the “false flag threats” in a tweet on Monday. Anthony Scaramucci, a financier whom Trump once planned to appoint as an adviser, also suggested that Democrats may be behind the threats. He later said that he wasn’t blaming Democrats, just noting that “no one knows yet” who’s behind the phone calls.

Real “hoax” and “false flag” hate crimes are rare. “Hoaxes have become symbols for some who want to promote the idea that most hate crimes are hoaxes,” Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino, told Talking Points Memo in December.

But hoaxes constitute only a “tiny fraction” of reported hate crimes, Levin said. “As criminologists, we see hoax fires, hoax domestic violence accusations, hoax car thefts,” he added. “And the overwhelming majority of those offenses really are being committed, too.”

Questioning the veracity of threats against Jewish people is particularly damaging, given that some anti-Semites deny the fact that approximately 6 million Jewish people were murdered by the Nazi regime and collaborators during the Holocaust. Jewish people are by far the most frequent target of religiously motivated hate crimes in the United States.

Trump has a long history of boosting conspiracy theories, including casting doubt on the legitimacy of then-President Barack Obama’s birth certificate and more recently blaming Obama for organizing protests against him — without offering any evidence that’s true. Trump has also come under fire for his repeated dog-whistles to white nationalists: Among other actions during his presidential campaign, he failed to initially denounce Duke’s support for his candidacy, shared a false racist meme, and retweeted the message of a Twitter user called “WhiteGenocideTM” who was listed as living in “Jewmerica.”

So far, Trump’s administration has remained relatively quiet on the rise in anti-Semitic threats since his election, with some exceptions. “The anti-Semitic threats targeting our Jewish community and community centers are horrible, and are painful, and a very sad reminder of the work that still must be done to root out hate and prejudice and evil,” the president finally said during a visit to the National Museum of African American History and Culture earlier this month.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 01 2017 01:59 GMT
#139897
It's State of the Trump time!
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4773 Posts
March 01 2017 02:00 GMT
#139898
On March 01 2017 10:23 farvacola wrote:
He reportedly brought the families of people killed by illegal immigrants, so I wouldn't count on it.


He was also reportedly talking about "immigration reform" earlier, which is something he's always been in favor of, so maybe. Prob not in the speech though.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
March 01 2017 02:11 GMT
#139899
Will we ever get a president that says hold your applause towards the end? I know people want to show what all they support, but God damn it is always frustrating to watch.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 01 2017 02:12 GMT
#139900
Heh, no one wants to applaud for Trump.
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