In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Better explanation. The Republicans want to get their agenda through and investigating Trump will not let them do that. Just like they don’t care about his conflicts of interest.
I’m willing to agree that folks are on the left are being hysterical about a lot of this. But let’s not give the right far more credit than they are due.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Simple facts - Obama never said Fox is the enemy of the people, never called them fake news, and never barred them from press briefings. Trump is going over and above.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Simple facts - Obama never said Fox is the enemy of the people, never called them fake news, and never barred them from press briefings. Trump is going over and above.
Wait, you're telling me Obama didn't have as much sharp rhetoric as Trump? His administration bragged about the exclusion of Fox from interviews. On more than one occasion he attacked right of center news outlets /opinion forums to put the blame on them. Yeah, you simply have zero perspective because you're in the same Trump frenzy as the MSM. Good luck trying to put the genie back in the bottle now that we know the norms only apply to one side politically.
Enough with the alternate reality Danglers. To even suggest that the tone of the Obama administration towards Fox is anything like how Trump's administration treats most media is so far fetched as to call into question your credibility.
As for the Russia issue, there is most certainly smoke, though no fire yet. Smoke was enough for the Republicans before Trump. Now all of a sudden it's fire or no investigation.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Simple facts - Obama never said Fox is the enemy of the people, never called them fake news, and never barred them from press briefings. Trump is going over and above.
Wait, you're telling me Obama didn't have as much sharp rhetoric as Trump? His administration bragged about the exclusion of Fox from interviews. On more than one occasion he attacked right of center news outlets /opinion forums to put the blame on them. Yeah, you simply have zero perspective because you're in the same Trump frenzy as the MSM. Good luck trying to put the genie back in the bottle now that we know the norms only apply to one side politically.
didn't even someone link the 20minute interview with an anchor from FoxNews stating that Trump is indeed going way further than Obama ever did? TL;dr: Being mean to the press is one thing, saying you don't like them is also one thing. Saying media is the enemy of the american people is something entirely different... Even fox news disagrees with you on how fox news was treated
this:
4:07 - I don't have any problem with you complaining about bias, but you went a lot further. Or the President went a lot further than that. He said that the fake media, not certain stories, the fake media are an enemy to the country. We don't have a state-run media in this country. That's what they have in dictatorships
Priebus 6:35 - Let me tell you something, he [Obama] said a lot of things about Fox News. I think you oughta check the tape. He blamed you for a lot of things Wallace 6:44 - No he took the shots and we didn't like him and frankly we don't like this either. But you know, he never went as far as President Trump has and that's concerning because it seems like he crosses a line when he talks about that we're an enemy of the people. That is concerning
If THAT's comming from Fox News you know shit is fucked up
On February 25 2017 06:13 On_Slaught wrote: Enough with the alternate reality Danglers. To even suggest that the tone of the Obama administration towards Fox is anything like how Trump's administration treats most media is so far fetched as to call into question your credibility.
As for the Russia issue, there is most certainly smoke, though no fire yet. Smoke was enough for the Republicans before Trump. Now all of a sudden it's fire or no investigation.
If you had been reading, you would discover I talked about action and precedent. Some other stuff too you might want to quote and reply to. Your alternative reality is similar to your alternative spelling. And pardon me if I'm not as willing to stop partway in following things to their logical conclusion.
On February 25 2017 05:58 Danglars wrote: Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
That there is precedent does not mean that it is acceptable. That *some* Obama supporters were fine with what he did and not fine with Trump does not make it hypocritical for *other* Obama supporters to deride Trump for doing it.
It was bad when Obama did it, it's worse that Trump is doubling down on it. Most of all, punishing the left for bad decisions made by Obama is the shittiest possible justification for letting Trump make poor decisions.
This has been the most insufferable part about some people since this election. "We're going to let Trump do objectionable things just because Obama did some similarly objectionable things just so people on the left can eat it" just feeds into this awful partisanship and hurts people in the middle who feels both sides are acting like children. Obama is not president anymore. Hillary Clinton is not the president. Trump is the president. Judging him to the standard of what someone else did in the past is not productive for anyone.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Simple facts - Obama never said Fox is the enemy of the people, never called them fake news, and never barred them from press briefings. Trump is going over and above.
Wait, you're telling me Obama didn't have as much sharp rhetoric as Trump? His administration bragged about the exclusion of Fox from interviews. On more than one occasion he attacked right of center news outlets /opinion forums to put the blame on them. Yeah, you simply have zero perspective because you're in the same Trump frenzy as the MSM. Good luck trying to put the genie back in the bottle now that we know the norms only apply to one side politically.
"Enemies of the people" is pretty clearly sharper rhetoric. If you deny that "enemies of the people" is worse, there's just no helping your bias I'm afraid.
On February 25 2017 06:13 On_Slaught wrote: Enough with the alternate reality Danglers. To even suggest that the tone of the Obama administration towards Fox is anything like how Trump's administration treats most media is so far fetched as to call into question your credibility.
As for the Russia issue, there is most certainly smoke, though no fire yet. Smoke was enough for the Republicans before Trump. Now all of a sudden it's fire or no investigation.
If you had been reading, you would discover I talked about action and precedent. Some other stuff too you might want to quote and reply to. Your alternative reality is similar to your alternative spelling. And pardon me if I'm not as willing to stop partway in following things to their logical conclusion.
Attacking a typo drives home the fact you have no basis for your belief. You are disregarding the importance of degrees; of nuance. It's like saying that because I went 10 over the speed limit and a cop I drove past didn't pull me over that that is precedent for me going 100 over the limit without fear of punishment. I mean, the door was opened for speeding so who cares if I push it a little farther?
I don't see how the whole logical conclusion argument helps you in any way. The logical conclusion of Trump saying the media is the enemy of the people is the government taking action to curb media free speech. We all know that is what Bannon wants. Is that OK with you?
He even banned the BBC lol. Associated Press boycotted it in protest.
But nothing to worry about:
"I'm not against the media, I'm not against the press. I don't mind bad stories when I deserve them… I am only against the fake news media, the fake press," Trump insisted in his Friday morning speech. "I love the First Amendment. Nobody loves it more than me."
You gotta love his line about only being against fake news and not all news. Of course he is the sole arbiter of what constitutes fake news. Though of course it is also a coincidence that anyone who post a negative story about him happens to be fake news. Nothing to see here.
Obama didn't have an opposition party with the media label either. It looks different when you only want to attack right-of-center outlets to prop up a misinformed public narrative. Now, Trump has to contend with the Resistance or Democracy Dies in Darkness corrupt media establishment. Some of the particulars will look different as the established principle is applied to today's climate. Natural evolution of kinds. Now don't try to rewind the pages of history and to insert stops to what is permissible behavior. When the waters rise is the time you wish you hadn't broken the dam ... faint echo 'But nobody told us this is why the dam is important.'
Mildly relevant aside:
So business as usual, skewed attacks as usual, everyone upset that a serial liar with an (R) in front of his name also gets to throw his hand into the mix. Sow to the wind, reap the whirlwind and I can't help feeling some shadenfreude.
On February 25 2017 05:58 Danglars wrote: Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
That there is precedent does not mean that it is acceptable. That *some* Obama supporters were fine with what he did and not fine with Trump does not make it hypocritical for *other* Obama supporters to deride Trump for doing it.
It was bad when Obama did it, it's worse that Trump is doubling down on it. Most of all, punishing the left for bad decisions made by Obama is the shittiest possible justification for letting Trump make poor decisions.
This has been the most insufferable part about some people since this election. "We're going to let Trump do objectionable things just because Obama did some similarly objectionable things just so people on the left can eat it" just feeds into this awful partisanship and hurts people in the middle who feels both sides are acting like children. Obama is not president anymore. Hillary Clinton is not the president. Trump is the president. Judging him to the standard of what someone else did in the past is not productive for anyone.
"It was bad when Obama did it, it's also bad when Trump did it" might be the best nonpartisan takeaway. I'm putting into my two cents to show where it came from and why Trump will get away with it. Then, you know, we might afterwards move past Obama and Trump at re-laying the foundations of political debate.
Spicer decided to hold an off-camera "gaggle" with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the traditional on-camera briefing in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room.
Among the outlets not permitted to cover the gaggle were news organizations President Trump has singled out for criticism, including CNN.
The New York Times, The Hill, Politico, BuzzFeed, the Daily Mail, BBC, the Los Angeles Times and the New York Daily News were among the other news organizations not permitted to attend.
So funny this coming right on the heels of the Obama administration. Yin to the yang of purposely excluding Fox from interviews and railing against that media organization alongside talk radio hosts during his administration. The good news is everybody gets a chance to revisit the history of presidents and the media. And like others have said, you don't need that level of access to do good journalism.
Trump is going over and above anything Obama did by a wide margin.
Obama supporters claim its unprecedented, Trump supporters claim it has ample precedent. Clearly, the rule needs to be only bashing the outlets I disagree with should be proper behavior. Or, once the media returned to its jobs after taking an eight year break, everyone was shocked to discover the landscape had changed.
How long it's taking some to get used to a split country, and aggressive and contentious figures from the right, is stunning.
Simple facts - Obama never said Fox is the enemy of the people, never called them fake news, and never barred them from press briefings. Trump is going over and above.
Wait, you're telling me Obama didn't have as much sharp rhetoric as Trump? His administration bragged about the exclusion of Fox from interviews. On more than one occasion he attacked right of center news outlets /opinion forums to put the blame on them. Yeah, you simply have zero perspective because you're in the same Trump frenzy as the MSM. Good luck trying to put the genie back in the bottle now that we know the norms only apply to one side politically.
"Enemies of the people" is pretty clearly sharper rhetoric. If you deny that "enemies of the people" is worse, there's just no helping your bias I'm afraid.
I'll have my secretary ping your office to discover when sharp is too sharp and when following precedent offends your mental idea of how far precedent was meant to be followed.
On February 25 2017 06:13 On_Slaught wrote: Enough with the alternate reality Danglers. To even suggest that the tone of the Obama administration towards Fox is anything like how Trump's administration treats most media is so far fetched as to call into question your credibility.
As for the Russia issue, there is most certainly smoke, though no fire yet. Smoke was enough for the Republicans before Trump. Now all of a sudden it's fire or no investigation.
If you had been reading, you would discover I talked about action and precedent. Some other stuff too you might want to quote and reply to. Your alternative reality is similar to your alternative spelling. And pardon me if I'm not as willing to stop partway in following things to their logical conclusion.
Attacking a typo drives home the fact you have no basis for your belief. You are disregarding the importance of degrees; of nuance. It's like saying that because I went 10 over the speed limit and a cop I drove past didn't pull me over that that is precedent for me going 100 over the limit without fear of punishment. I mean, the door was opened for speeding so who cares if I push it a little farther?
I don't see how the whole logical conclusion argument helps you in any way. The logical conclusion of Trump saying the media is the enemy of the people is the government taking action to curb media free speech. We all know that is what Bannon wants. Is that OK with you?
No, that's called using the instance of the typo to make a comparison (and since you're missing some perspective here, try a search to discover it's only a typo for some. the answer may shock you!). And we've already established we disagree on what opening Pandora's box means. Also, the media did have a a chance to play media company and not opposition party to make the whole same precedent, different age totally unfounded. I know the 2015-2016 campaign season was so long ago, but you can study there the slow build to today.
On February 25 2017 06:44 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: He even banned the BBC lol. Associated Press boycotted it in protest.
But nothing to worry about:
"I'm not against the media, I'm not against the press. I don't mind bad stories when I deserve them… I am only against the fake news media, the fake press," Trump insisted in his Friday morning speech. "I love the First Amendment. Nobody loves it more than me."
It's a shame both major political parties ended up with candidates uncommitted to first amendment principles. Signed: Reluctant Trump voter.
On February 25 2017 06:51 Danglars wrote: Obama didn't have an opposition party with the media label either. It looks different when you only want to attack right-of-center outlets to prop up a misinformed public narrative. Now, Trump has to contend with the Resistance or Democracy Dies in Darkness corrupt media establishment. Some of the particulars will look different as the established principle is applied to today's climate. Natural evolution of kinds. Now don't try to rewind the pages of history and to insert stops to what is permissible behavior. When the waters rise is the time you wish you hadn't broken the dam ... faint echo 'But nobody told us this is why the dam is important.'
So business as usual, skewed attacks as usual, everyone upset that a serial liar with an (R) in front of his name also gets to throw his hand into the mix. Sow to the wind, reap the whirlwind and I can't help feeling some shadenfreude.
Nope.."enemies of the people" is not necessary even if the MSM is as bad as you think. And it's worse rhetoric than in the past.
Declaring the media an 'enemy of the people' is a much, much stronger statement than picking a personal fight with them. The latter happens frequently with boneheaded leaders, what Trump is doing is painting them as a fifth column inside the country.
Listening to the Republicans talk about the press and constantly use “the establishment media” is like listening to progressives talk about “the cooperate banking industry”. Not a lot of specifics, but everything and everyone involved might be related to the devil.
EPT
