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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6795

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
February 08 2017 03:05 GMT
#135881
On February 08 2017 11:55 biology]major wrote:
This debate in the absence of any political reward is so much more chill and they are actually agreeing on things. I think Cruz is much better than Sanders at debating, he is more articulate, has stats, and is thorough and convincing. Sanders is very genuine though so that helps his overall charisma. Gonna have to say Lyin ted is winning though by my super objective standards!



Oh my friend, there is so much political reward going on.

Sanders wants to pull the dems left and needs to keep his base on his side (needs the face time/seen fighting for the people)

Cruz needs back in GOP good graces (after the whole thing at the convention)... maybe just get points with the hardcore republicans instead of the GOP


Cruz is a better debater/ was smart enough to bring stats
Bernie just does this crap where he says rich people boogie man all the time (true or not)

But I dislike Bernie so I am biased.
Something witty
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 08 2017 03:08 GMT
#135882
My stream froze when it came up, why is Bernie against inter-state health markets?
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
February 08 2017 03:09 GMT
#135883
Can someone explain to me how buying insurance across state lines would make it cheaper?
How would me buying an insurance plan in a different state help me?
Something witty
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 08 2017 03:10 GMT
#135884
On February 08 2017 12:09 IyMoon wrote:
Can someone explain to me how buying insurance across state lines would make it cheaper?
How would me buying an insurance plan in a different state help me?

breaks state level monopoly
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 08 2017 03:13 GMT
#135885
Inter-state markets would honestly be extremely useful for low population states like Alaska. However, I vaguely recall something like there are some constitutionality issues that are the reason why it wasn't part of the initial plan.


Also, ew, that samson/delilah incest joke by cruz.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
February 08 2017 03:14 GMT
#135886
Why are there even state barriers to begin with? In what way does insurance benefit from being localized or confined to certain areas? Its not like there is some kinda transportation component.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
February 08 2017 03:16 GMT
#135887
On February 08 2017 11:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
So Bernie is mopping the floor with Cruz


When I started watching I thought, you know Cruz is actually doing pretty well.

Then Bernie started talking and he's a lot more convincing here.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
February 08 2017 03:17 GMT
#135888
On February 08 2017 12:10 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2017 12:09 IyMoon wrote:
Can someone explain to me how buying insurance across state lines would make it cheaper?
How would me buying an insurance plan in a different state help me?

breaks state level monopoly



But don't states have competition within them? I mean I don't see how opening up my care to a company in another state is going to bring me down. Won't the price for my care be the same? Meaning itll cost the insurance company around the same? And then they charge the same?
Something witty
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 08 2017 03:20 GMT
#135889
On February 08 2017 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Why are there even state barriers to begin with? In what way does insurance benefit from being localized or confined to certain areas? Its not like there is some kinda transportation component.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html

This claims that the issue is that health insurance companies would have to set up networks of doctors on a local level, and none want to go to that effort (they point to the states that have legalized this having 0 takers). I'm not entirely swayed by the argument, though.

On February 08 2017 12:16 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2017 11:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
So Bernie is mopping the floor with Cruz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c6HuNw8Kfo

When I started watching I thought, you know Cruz is actually doing pretty well.

Then Bernie started talking and he's a lot more convincing here.


Their tasks aren't exactly equal, it's much easier to defend single payer than it is to defend the american health care system. Bernie has sounded at his weakest when he was defending Obamacare directly. His heart didn't really seem in it (it was mostly "it was worse before it", which while true, is not a great argument).
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 08 2017 03:20 GMT
#135890
On February 08 2017 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Why are there even state barriers to begin with? In what way does insurance benefit from being localized or confined to certain areas? Its not like there is some kinda transportation component.

I'm not that familiar with it.
there are a fair number of legal issues though, each state has its own rules and regulations about what insurance has to do and cover, and some details differ in the laws on the practice of medicine between states.
and of course insurance often has to make deals with all the local hospitals and other providers, so you really gotta know who's who and what's what locally to do that well.

some systems that try to force the breaking of state barriers would bypass those rules, forcing states to accept other states laws on the matter. not sure at all about the system they're discussing here.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 08 2017 03:22 GMT
#135891



lol just lol. trump trying to learn economics
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5068 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-08 03:25:45
February 08 2017 03:24 GMT
#135892
On February 08 2017 12:22 oneofthem wrote:
https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/829161586417754113


lol just lol. trump trying to learn economics


Maybe he can ask Flynn about tariffs.

Edit: assuming it's true, of course.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-08 03:28:48
February 08 2017 03:26 GMT
#135893
On February 08 2017 12:17 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2017 12:10 oneofthem wrote:
On February 08 2017 12:09 IyMoon wrote:
Can someone explain to me how buying insurance across state lines would make it cheaper?
How would me buying an insurance plan in a different state help me?

breaks state level monopoly



But don't states have competition within them? I mean I don't see how opening up my care to a company in another state is going to bring me down. Won't the price for my care be the same? Meaning itll cost the insurance company around the same? And then they charge the same?

well for much of the country, especially low density places, insurances have local monopoly, including the local provider network.

basically obamacare's premise was never to change the power structure of the healthcare market and that's how it will fail in the end. had hrc been elected there would be the possibility of pushing it further, but right now lol.

anyway the aca is also a decent tax raise on wealthy people, mainly for the benefit of the very poor.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-08 03:30:32
February 08 2017 03:29 GMT
#135894
On February 08 2017 12:20 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2017 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Why are there even state barriers to begin with? In what way does insurance benefit from being localized or confined to certain areas? Its not like there is some kinda transportation component.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html

This claims that the issue is that health insurance companies would have to set up networks of doctors on a local level, and none want to go to that effort (they point to the states that have legalized this having 0 takers). I'm not entirely swayed by the argument, though.

Show nested quote +
On February 08 2017 12:16 LegalLord wrote:
On February 08 2017 11:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
So Bernie is mopping the floor with Cruz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c6HuNw8Kfo

When I started watching I thought, you know Cruz is actually doing pretty well.

Then Bernie started talking and he's a lot more convincing here.


Their tasks aren't exactly equal, it's much easier to defend single payer than it is to defend the american health care system. Bernie has sounded at his weakest when he was defending Obamacare directly. His heart didn't really seem in it (it was mostly "it was worse before it", which while true, is not a great argument).


So true. Very easy to defend "health care is a human right" in a town hall type setting. It's what people want to hear. Every question Cruz gets along the lines of "what will happen to me once obamacare is gone, will I still get coverage for contraceptives etc etc" is so much harder to defend and Cruz is going through some olympic level verbal gymanstics to ultimately say "tough luck".

Question.?
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
February 08 2017 03:31 GMT
#135895
Sanders' heart is in the right place with regards to single payer, but he's out of his depth when it comes to the details of the ACA, providing Cruz with the opportunity to mislead the audience on its costs and disadvantages. If Anthony Weiner had never joined twitter, he'd be wrecking Cruz right now.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
February 08 2017 03:41 GMT
#135896
On February 08 2017 11:45 oneofthem wrote:
lol why would you send bernie to this type of a debate.

It's the fight for 3rd place. The runner-ups of the primaries fight to get the bronze.
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3394 Posts
February 08 2017 03:41 GMT
#135897
Why can't Cruz just answer the question
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 08 2017 03:48 GMT
#135898
The ACA is a failure because it doesn't recognize the fundamental flaw with all of these systems: They are a tradeoff between cost, coverage, and innovation. You only get 2. A real free market would have bad coverage, but low cost and high innovation. The traditional single payer model sacrifices innovation (and basically free-rides on the American market for it). The American system has paid a very high cost for decent coverage and decent innovation.
Freeeeeeedom
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
February 08 2017 03:48 GMT
#135899
hands = raised
premiums = raised
plans = cancelled

obamacare = btfo
posting on liquid sites in current year
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-08 03:50:35
February 08 2017 03:50 GMT
#135900
On February 08 2017 12:22 oneofthem wrote:
https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/829161586417754113


lol just lol. trump trying to learn economics


He's gonna be extremely disappointed when the economist he asks doesn't give him a straight answer (as in, no competent economist should ever answer that with a straight up "weak" or "strong").

If he actually asks, of course. And if this tidbit is actually true
Bora Pain minha porra!
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