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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself.
You have people willing to protest, more so than before. That should be rather obvious; we elected the least popular candidate in history so I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. But it's not clear what they want and how they intend to get there, and it never was. If they had had a means to get there then they would have won. There is a disconnect between these "grassroots" movements and the politicians in opposition to Trump and that's not unity, much less "united like never before." That's just a frantic struggle to come to terms with someone they don't like.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess
Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many.
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We did just have an election cycle where diffuse anger and unrest propelled someone who was very fuzzy on what he wanted on some issues and incredibly fuzzy on how he'd get there to office though. Organization and formal demands may be overrated with the current media environment.
On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many.
How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country.
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On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself.
Grassroots left has been much more united in the past compared to now. Obama was hope and change and he got mighty campaign support both against Clinton and McCain.
I wonder where your "bickering over implementation and details" ends and "bickering over substantial possible solutions to problems" begins. Like what cause or leader are they united behind? Trade liberalism? Open borders? Military intervention in the Middle East and Syria? Tax policy? Free education? Schumer, Pelosi, Ellison?
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On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many.
that would indeed be a nightmare.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
We did just have an election cycle where diffuse anger and unrest propelled someone who was very fuzzy on what he wanted on some issues and incredibly fuzzy on how he'd get there to office though. Organization and formal demands may be overrated with the current media environment.
Well, we did just have a year and a half of:
"Madame Secretary, we don't really like you all that much, we're concerned you won't act in our interes.."
"Never mind that, Trump is SO BAD, we can't be worried about that right now."
"But why are you bett..."
"TRUMP is SO BAD, never mind any of that, we can't let him be president!"
"But why should we..."
"We CAN'T let TRUMP win! He is racist sexist satanic evil worst person ever!"
And so on. The anti-Trump sentiment has been around for long enough - the problem is that the results of it just don't make people vote for someone whom they dislike just as much.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many. How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country.
Does a woman in Muslim garb with an American flag over it seriously not invoke symbolism of "the US will become a Muslim nation" to you? I mean, even if that's not what you see in it, is that really something you couldn't see that a lot of people would see in it?
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On February 01 2017 00:29 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. and this is how things will remain. activist left basically see globalization and international capitalism as the biggest enemy, with every other issue warped around this war with the system.
no that is not true,globalization and international capitalism are not seen as the biggest enemy. the biggest enemy is inequality,and if that is the result of globalization and international capitalism,then they become a secondary enemy as well. But the left is not against free trade and globalization per se,they are only against it when it leads to consequences they don't want to see. They want a more inclusive form of global capitalism and free trade,a form that leaves less people behind.
You just keep posting your propaganda crap,just as bad as the far left conspiracy theorys. Your vieuw of the far left wont ever chance. I do think you do realize that inequality is at the root of it all,but naming that goes to far. Rather blame it on leftists who are supposedly against all sorts of progress which is absolutely not the case at all.
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On February 01 2017 00:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many. How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country. Does a woman in Muslim garb with an American flag over it seriously not invoke symbolism of "the US will become a Muslim nation" to you? I mean, even if that's not what you see in it, is that really something you couldn't see that a lot of people would see in it?
yes it was the first impression it gave me,and I personally have no isues with muslims at all! (on the contrary) For people who are already critical and scared I think this picture reinforces their believe in a very subtle matter,yes.
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On February 01 2017 00:49 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:
We did just have an election cycle where diffuse anger and unrest propelled someone who was very fuzzy on what he wanted on some issues and incredibly fuzzy on how he'd get there to office though. Organization and formal demands may be overrated with the current media environment. Well, we did just have a year and a half of: "Madame Secretary, we don't really like you all that much, we're concerned you won't act in our interes.." "Never mind that, Trump is SO BAD, we can't be worried about that right now." "But why are you bett..." "TRUMP is SO BAD, never mind any of that, we can't let him be president!" "But why should we..." "We CAN'T let TRUMP win! He is racist sexist satanic evil worst person ever!" And so on. The anti-Trump sentiment has been around for long enough - the problem is that the results of it just don't make people vote for someone whom they dislike just as much.
Now, now. The satanic stuff was all about Clinton, let's be accurate here. 
Besides which, the media role in the election was quite distinct on the right and left.
Leftist media didn't fall in line behind Clinton quickly-your Salon's/HuffPos/Vox's all spent a lot of energy backing Sanders. By the time they did start unilaterally saying "Trump is evil" it was too late, the well was poisoned, and even then they hedged it with "I really wanted Sanders instead." This fragmentation results in the diffuse anger and unrest against Clinton mixing with the racist/sexist articles about Trump and ending up being just enough of a wash.
Meanwhile, the rightist media-and here I mean true right, not moderate right-were backing Trump once they realized he had a legitimate shot, and had a very clear and consistent message about his opponents in the primary, and then about Sanders. They were thus able to capitalize on the fuzzy feelings a lot better.
I have my doubts media on the left will fuck up again.
On February 01 2017 00:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many. How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country. Does a woman in Muslim garb with an American flag over it seriously not invoke symbolism of "the US will become a Muslim nation" to you? I mean, even if that's not what you see in it, is that really something you couldn't see that a lot of people would see in it?
I guess I just didn't think a "lot" of "many" people would leap to that conclusion given how happy we used to be about being a melting pot (and view it more as an American Muslim rather than a Muslim America). I was also expecting a sea of Muslim men in the picture when I clicked rather than a bunch of old people. I really need to learn those times are over.
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On February 01 2017 00:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many. How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country. Does a woman in Muslim garb with an American flag over it seriously not invoke symbolism of "the US will become a Muslim nation" to you? I mean, even if that's not what you see in it, is that really something you couldn't see that a lot of people would see in it?
Americans take their flag far too seriously.
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On February 01 2017 00:42 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself. You have people willing to protest, more so than before. That should be rather obvious; we elected the least popular candidate in history so I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. But it's not clear what they want and how they intend to get there, and it never was. If they had had a means to get there then they would have won. There is a disconnect between these "grassroots" movements and the politicians in opposition to Trump and that's not unity, much less "united like never before." That's just a frantic struggle to come to terms with someone they don't like.
There are a lot of clear issues, but they're mostly in the negative (no wall, no muslim ban, no rollback of reproductive rights, no denial of climate change) which makes it harder to have a real concrete plan of action. It's not like protesting *for* something positive to happen where you can point to specific legislation as the thing you are rallying behind and focus their entire energy on that.
I really don't see how it is any different than the tea party movement which may not have directly caused anything, but has certainly altered and shaped the republican party. I pretty much expect the same from the anti-Trump movement, the end result is probably going to be mostly in the building of a stronger and 'more left' left.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 01 2017 01:05 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:42 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself. You have people willing to protest, more so than before. That should be rather obvious; we elected the least popular candidate in history so I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. But it's not clear what they want and how they intend to get there, and it never was. If they had had a means to get there then they would have won. There is a disconnect between these "grassroots" movements and the politicians in opposition to Trump and that's not unity, much less "united like never before." That's just a frantic struggle to come to terms with someone they don't like. There are a lot of clear issues, but they're mostly in the negative (no wall, no muslim ban, no rollback of reproductive rights, no denial of climate change) which makes it harder to have a real concrete plan of action. It's not like protesting *for* something positive to happen where you can point to specific legislation as the thing you are rallying behind and focus their entire energy on that. I really don't see how it is any different than the tea party movement which may not have directly caused anything, but has certainly altered and shaped the republican party. I pretty much expect the same from the anti-Trump movement, the end result is probably going to be mostly in the building of a stronger and 'more left' left.
The Tea Party movement definitely had a vision of what they wanted - and a means by which they would achieve it. Say what you want, but on an organizational level right-wing protesters have always kicked the left's ass.
And a "more left" left could just look like Europe - multiple fragmented and confused ideologues up against a somewhat small (but not fringe) yet extremely unified far-right, and a fairly beefy regular right. In fact it's starting to look like that here as well.
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On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him.
The problem with the left is that they haven't figured out that their traditional strategy of simply making a lot of incoherent noise doesn't work anymore. They've spent all of their rhetorical bullets. You can only throw around the terms "Nazi" and "racist" so many times before the punch is lost. Trump's election signaled the crossing of that line. Nevertheless, I expect the left to keep tripling down on their current hysterical course of action for the time being.
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On February 01 2017 01:01 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:51 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:44 TheTenthDoc wrote:On February 01 2017 00:43 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:31 TheTenthDoc wrote:I really have no idea why that's a nightmare unless people have a phobia of headscarves or old people. Or women I guess Or of the US becoming a Muslim nation, which is what the symbolism would suggest to many. How on earth does an old lady holding a sign that says we're greater than fear with a Muslim woman on it symbolism for becoming a Muslim nation? I thought we were afraid of the evil Muslim men coming and blowing us up. Then again it's probably the same people having nightmares who think a gay pride parade is about how gays are taking over the country. Does a woman in Muslim garb with an American flag over it seriously not invoke symbolism of "the US will become a Muslim nation" to you? I mean, even if that's not what you see in it, is that really something you couldn't see that a lot of people would see in it? Americans take their flag far too seriously.
Only when the person disrespecting the flag hold a opposite political view from you.
Otherwise it's time to get drunk in your american flag swimming shorts and then dry off with an american flag towel.
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Family of Syrians Deported From Philadelphia Voted for Donald Trump
An Allentown family who is fighting to have their relatives return to the United States after they were detained at Philadelphia International Airport and sent back to Syria under the immigration order told
"NBC Nightly News" that they voted for Donald Trump.
“I understand he wants to make America safe,” Sarmad Assali said. "We're all on with this. I definitely want to be in a safe place. But people need us and we need to be there for them."
Assali and her husband, Dr. Ghassan Assali, who has a dentistry practice and received his degree from New York University, are originally from Syria but have been living in the United States for 20 years. Sarmad Assali's two brothers, their wives and their two children initiated their immigration attempts in 2003 while living in Syria. In December 2016, they were approved to join Assali and her husband in Allentown after the couple bought and furnished a home for them.
But early Saturday morning, after they landed at Philadelphia International Airport, Assali's relatives were detained. They were then sent on an 18-hour flight back overseas.
Source
And this lovely tweet sums up my feelings, more or less:
+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/654934442549620736?lang=en
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On February 01 2017 01:07 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 01:05 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:42 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself. You have people willing to protest, more so than before. That should be rather obvious; we elected the least popular candidate in history so I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. But it's not clear what they want and how they intend to get there, and it never was. If they had had a means to get there then they would have won. There is a disconnect between these "grassroots" movements and the politicians in opposition to Trump and that's not unity, much less "united like never before." That's just a frantic struggle to come to terms with someone they don't like. There are a lot of clear issues, but they're mostly in the negative (no wall, no muslim ban, no rollback of reproductive rights, no denial of climate change) which makes it harder to have a real concrete plan of action. It's not like protesting *for* something positive to happen where you can point to specific legislation as the thing you are rallying behind and focus their entire energy on that. I really don't see how it is any different than the tea party movement which may not have directly caused anything, but has certainly altered and shaped the republican party. I pretty much expect the same from the anti-Trump movement, the end result is probably going to be mostly in the building of a stronger and 'more left' left. The Tea Party movement definitely had a vision of what they wanted - and a means by which they would achieve it. Say what you want, but on an organizational level right-wing protesters have always kicked the left's ass.
I already said that too? The right seems more content to form a hive mind of sorts with less differing of opinion and also in general seems to focus on less issues. The nature of their political views & republican-as-an-identity seems to lend itself to pretty focused movements that are lower hanging fruit than left causes.
But I wouldn't really call the tea party united in a singular cause? Not that it's the upmost authority, but Wikipedia literally says:
The Tea Party does not have a single uniform agenda. The decentralized character of the Tea Party, with its lack of formal structure or hierarchy, allows each autonomous group to set its own priorities and goals.
as the first things about the Tea Party's Agenda.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 01 2017 00:52 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:29 oneofthem wrote:On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. and this is how things will remain. activist left basically see globalization and international capitalism as the biggest enemy, with every other issue warped around this war with the system. no that is not true,globalization and international capitalism are not seen as the biggest enemy. the biggest enemy is inequality,and if that is the result of globalization and international capitalism,then they become a secondary enemy as well. But the left is not against free trade and globalization per se,they are only against it when it leads to consequences they don't want to see. They want a more inclusive form of global capitalism and free trade,a form that leaves less people behind. You just keep posting your propaganda crap,just as bad as the far left conspiracy theorys. Your vieuw of the far left wont ever chance. I do think you do realize that inequality is at the root of it all,but naming that goes to far. Rather blame it on leftists who are supposedly against all sorts of progress which is absolutely not the case at all.
the familiar problem is globalization and capital mobility undercutting power of domestic labor/government.
the left wants to end this kind of mobility, whereas reformists want to build international institutions to change the situation.
there are various side issues, but on those there is not much ground for disagreement honestly. everyone would agree about anti-trust and more control over finance, for example. it's basically the response to globalization that is the wedge issue.
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Yeah well while some folks keep blabbering on about meaningless masses of people conjoined by the sole fact that you disapprove of their politics, state attorneys general are partnering up with public interest groups and planning to initiate more lawsuits against this executive than at any other time in history potentially. It'll be oh so nice when the first openly lesbian attorney general wings against the Trump administration in court, just think of your lover boy Milo would say about that!
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On February 01 2017 01:07 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 01:05 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:42 LegalLord wrote:On February 01 2017 00:27 Logo wrote:On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. That's a bit of a simplification right? The grassroots left (i.e every day people) have never been as united as now, or at least haven't been for a long time, but I don't really know that its trickled up to the lefts (or center-left/neoliberal or whatever term you want to use) that actually have power in the same way. Like there's way more people willing to listen to issues, organize, and pitch in now than there have been for a long time. Instead of a small amount of organizers/activists and a bunch of people who only show up to vote you now have a lot of people being active in the system. But yeah, it's a coalition rather than a singular group, and there's always going to be a lot of bickering over implementation and details. It's a big part of why the right is able to stand so strongly against the left I think? The right seems to be far more united around causes and implementations while the left is more content to dissent or argue amongst itself. You have people willing to protest, more so than before. That should be rather obvious; we elected the least popular candidate in history so I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. But it's not clear what they want and how they intend to get there, and it never was. If they had had a means to get there then they would have won. There is a disconnect between these "grassroots" movements and the politicians in opposition to Trump and that's not unity, much less "united like never before." That's just a frantic struggle to come to terms with someone they don't like. There are a lot of clear issues, but they're mostly in the negative (no wall, no muslim ban, no rollback of reproductive rights, no denial of climate change) which makes it harder to have a real concrete plan of action. It's not like protesting *for* something positive to happen where you can point to specific legislation as the thing you are rallying behind and focus their entire energy on that. I really don't see how it is any different than the tea party movement which may not have directly caused anything, but has certainly altered and shaped the republican party. I pretty much expect the same from the anti-Trump movement, the end result is probably going to be mostly in the building of a stronger and 'more left' left. The Tea Party movement definitely had a vision of what they wanted - and a means by which they would achieve it. Say what you want, but on an organizational level right-wing protesters have always kicked the left's ass. And a "more left" left could just look like Europe - multiple fragmented and confused ideologues up against a somewhat small (but not fringe) yet extremely unified far-right, and a fairly beefy regular right. In fact it's starting to look like that here as well.
Tea Party didn't really have a vision of what they wanted at inception (heck, they predated Obama winning and were built on Ron Paul, who has nothing to do with their current agenda). The current crystallization was only supplied once they were bankrolled by the Koch brothers a year after their inception.
On February 01 2017 01:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2017 00:18 LegalLord wrote:
Where is this supposed leftist unity I've been hearing about? All I see is a frantic and confused opposition to a president they didn't want, with no strategy for dealing with him nor any willingness to reconcile between parties warring amongst themselves.
They all don't like Trump, we get that. But they don't seem to have figured out how they want to oppose him. The problem with the left is that they haven't figured out that their traditional strategy of simply making a lot of incoherent noise doesn't work anymore. They've spent all of their rhetorical bullets. You can only throw around the terms "Nazi" and "racist" so many times before the punch is lost. Trump's election signaled the crossing of that line. Nevertheless, I expect the left to keep tripling down on their current hysterical course of action for the time being.
I am not sure I can see the difference between Trump's primary strategy and making a lot of incoherent noise. General, maybe not as much. But it certainly worked in primary debates, where "security" and "strength" and "make Mexico pay for it" were just as vacuous as "Nazi" and "racist." And "untrustworthy" and "corrupt" and "worst Secretary of State ever" are ultimately just as vacuous, and they worked to a T since the left churned the first two out for a while too.
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EPT
