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On January 17 2017 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day! Show nested quote +THE REVEREND MARTIN Luther King Jr. is celebrated annually on a federal holiday on the third Monday of January. Politicians across the political spectrum put out statements praising his life’s work, and children in classrooms across America are told the tale of a man who stood up defiantly against racism and helped changed civil rights law.
But what they don’t mention is that King was not just a fighter for racial justice, he also fought for economic justice and against war. And as a result, he spent the last years of his life, before being assassinated in 1968, clashing not just with reactionary Southern segregationists, but with the Democratic Party’s elite and other civil rights leaders, who viewed his turn against the Vietnam War and the American economic system as dangerous and radical.
This “Santa Clausification” of King, as scholar Cornel West calls it — the portrayal of King as a celebrated consensus seeker asking for common sense racial reforms rather than as an anti-establishment radical — downplays the risks one of America’s most revered activists took to live according to conscience.
The Backlash Against King’s Opposition to the Vietnam War
While working alongside Democratic President Lyndon Johnson on civil rights issues, King was also increasingly disturbed by the war in Vietnam, and he would raise the issue privately with Johnson in White House calls and meetings. In April 1967, King decided to publicly denounce the war and call for its end. He gave a speech at Riverside Church in New York City where he called the U.S. government the “greatest purveyor of violence in the world” and denounced napalm bombings and the propping up of a puppet government in South Vietnam. He also called for a total re-examination of U.S. foreign policy, questioning capitalist exploitation of the developing world.
Many in the civil rights community warned King to focus on black civil rights and ignore the war so as not to alienate the Democratic Party. His Riverside Church speech explicitly rejected that demand, arguing that what America was doing across the world could not be morally segregated from what it was doing to African-Americans:
For those who ask the question, “Aren’t you a civil rights leader?” and thereby mean to exclude me from the movement for peace, I have this further answer. In 1957, when a group of us formed the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, we chose as our motto: “To save the soul of America.” We were convinced that we could not limit our vision to certain rights for black people, but instead affirmed the conviction that America would never be free or saved from itself until the descendants of its slaves were loosed completely from the shackles they still wear. […] Now it should be incandescently clear that no one who has any concern for the integrity and life of America today can ignore the present war. If America’s soul becomes totally poisoned, part of the autopsy must read “Vietnam.” It can never be saved so long as it destroys the hopes of men the world over. So it is that those of us who are yet determined that “America will be” are led down the path of protest and dissent, working for the health of our land.
The reaction from the American political establishment — much of it traditionally associated with American liberalism — was swift and harsh. The New York Times editorial board blasted King for linking the war in Vietnam to the struggles of civil rights and poverty alleviation in the United States, saying it was “too facile a connection” and that he was doing a “disservice” to both causes. It concluded that there “are no simple answers to the war in Vietnam or to racial injustice in this country.” The Washington Post editorial board said King had “diminished his usefulness to his cause, his country and his people.” In all, 168 newspapers denounced him the next day.
King had long considered himself a socialist, In 1966, he told staff at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference that “there must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism. Call it what you may, call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”
The last years of King’s life saw him escalate his campaign against economic inequality. He campaigned against the Oklahoma right-to-work referendum and warned that increased economic competition between whites and blacks would undermine civil rights — calling instead for a “Grand Alliance” between working-class whites and blacks.
He sought to use many of the same tactics he deployed in the South — boycotts, sit-ins, blockades — against economic injustice in inner cities in the North where African-Americans were trapped in endemic poverty. An article from the August 15, 1967, issue of The New York Times writes up King’s desire to “dislocate” large cities to force them to address these needs SourceEDIT: Happy Robert E. Lee day for all the racists  MLK's niece voted Trump http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mlks-niece-alveda-king-says-she-voted-for-trump/article/2611971
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fivethrtyeight had a good piece about the people who voted Trump weren't based so much on poverty (those went to Clinton) but on economic anxiety about there future. so they weren't sure they were going to have a job down the road. was interesting.
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On January 17 2017 10:01 Blisse wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/News-Quality.V4.jpg) Found this neat gradient of the news. Would move a bunch of things like Slate left and down, Huffington down, Vox left and down, WSJ left, WaPo left, AP up, Reuters up, etc. etc. but yeah doesn't look too off. Maybe you could argue that you should move Breitbart up a bit but I'm not reading any more of their content and giving them traffic or ad money. It's not so much that the MSM was/is against Trump so much as lots of "normal" people are against Trump. And I would say being specifically anti-Trump is different from being anti-Republican and that spectrum. Looks like a very poor representation of the media to be honest.Very little research done.
For example they've got naturalnews as far left and infowars as far right yet the founder, owner and main contributor of naturalnews, Mike Adams, hosted infowars video segments for years.He only stopped around three years ago when Jones started selling his own supplements, undercutting Adams' own vitamin business.Adams is no liberal.
And CNN "minimal bias"? Hahaha!
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Frankly I wonder if the "winners" of globalization are doing particularly well. The "one percent" that gains the lion's share of the earnings probably do. Those below that level, most notably the working middle class, I'm not sure. Nominally, middle class professionals make a pretty solid earning. But two working parents and 0 to 2 children, longer working hours, and fewer choices for employment (work in a large city or expect to have to have a nationwide job search if you lose your current job). It's something people are likely to just pooh-pooh as nostalgia for a world that wasn't actually better but the rise in conservatism across the entire Western world doesn't come out of nowhere.
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Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty
+ Show Spoiler +
The more genuine interpretation I think would be to say that the 1% are cashing in the dividends, not the lion's share. I mean pretty much the only group that really suffers is the industrial boomer generation in the developed world.
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On January 17 2017 13:21 LegalLord wrote: Frankly I wonder if the "winners" of globalization are doing particularly well. The "one percent" that gains the lion's share of the earnings probably do. Those below that level, most notably the working middle class, I'm not sure. Nominally, middle class professionals make a pretty solid earning. But two working parents and 0 to 2 children, longer working hours, and fewer choices for employment (work in a large city or expect to have to have a nationwide job search if you lose your current job). It's something people are likely to just pooh-pooh as nostalgia for a world that wasn't actually better but the rise in conservatism across the entire Western world doesn't come out of nowhere. depends which people you're talking about. I'm having a hard time parsing the question specifically enough to look up data for it. not sure who're the "winners" of globalization, as opposed to the winners of the new situation in general, which has various causes, globalization only being one of them.
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On January 17 2017 13:21 LegalLord wrote: Frankly I wonder if the "winners" of globalization are doing particularly well. The "one percent" that gains the lion's share of the earnings probably do. Those below that level, most notably the working middle class, I'm not sure. Nominally, middle class professionals make a pretty solid earning. But two working parents and 0 to 2 children, longer working hours, and fewer choices for employment (work in a large city or expect to have to have a nationwide job search if you lose your current job). It's something people are likely to just pooh-pooh as nostalgia for a world that wasn't actually better but the rise in conservatism across the entire Western world doesn't come out of nowhere.
I think it's gonna get worse honestly. apparently the current expert consesus seems to be that the answer is the 1% need to pay more/fairer taxes. and we all know what Trump's tax plan is going to do. but more so the backlash to it seems to be uninformed about just how much the economy is tied to globalization. We can't just stop it and trying to is probably going to cause serious economic problems.
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On January 17 2017 13:15 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day! THE REVEREND MARTIN Luther King Jr. is celebrated annually on a federal holiday on the third Monday of January. Politicians across the political spectrum put out statements praising his life’s work, and children in classrooms across America are told the tale of a man who stood up defiantly against racism and helped changed civil rights law.
But what they don’t mention is that King was not just a fighter for racial justice, he also fought for economic justice and against war. And as a result, he spent the last years of his life, before being assassinated in 1968, clashing not just with reactionary Southern segregationists, but with the Democratic Party’s elite and other civil rights leaders, who viewed his turn against the Vietnam War and the American economic system as dangerous and radical.
This “Santa Clausification” of King, as scholar Cornel West calls it — the portrayal of King as a celebrated consensus seeker asking for common sense racial reforms rather than as an anti-establishment radical — downplays the risks one of America’s most revered activists took to live according to conscience.
The Backlash Against King’s Opposition to the Vietnam War
While working alongside Democratic President Lyndon Johnson on civil rights issues, King was also increasingly disturbed by the war in Vietnam, and he would raise the issue privately with Johnson in White House calls and meetings. In April 1967, King decided to publicly denounce the war and call for its end. He gave a speech at Riverside Church in New York City where he called the U.S. government the “greatest purveyor of violence in the world” and denounced napalm bombings and the propping up of a puppet government in South Vietnam. He also called for a total re-examination of U.S. foreign policy, questioning capitalist exploitation of the developing world.
Many in the civil rights community warned King to focus on black civil rights and ignore the war so as not to alienate the Democratic Party. His Riverside Church speech explicitly rejected that demand, arguing that what America was doing across the world could not be morally segregated from what it was doing to African-Americans:
For those who ask the question, “Aren’t you a civil rights leader?” and thereby mean to exclude me from the movement for peace, I have this further answer. In 1957, when a group of us formed the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, we chose as our motto: “To save the soul of America.” We were convinced that we could not limit our vision to certain rights for black people, but instead affirmed the conviction that America would never be free or saved from itself until the descendants of its slaves were loosed completely from the shackles they still wear. […] Now it should be incandescently clear that no one who has any concern for the integrity and life of America today can ignore the present war. If America’s soul becomes totally poisoned, part of the autopsy must read “Vietnam.” It can never be saved so long as it destroys the hopes of men the world over. So it is that those of us who are yet determined that “America will be” are led down the path of protest and dissent, working for the health of our land.
The reaction from the American political establishment — much of it traditionally associated with American liberalism — was swift and harsh. The New York Times editorial board blasted King for linking the war in Vietnam to the struggles of civil rights and poverty alleviation in the United States, saying it was “too facile a connection” and that he was doing a “disservice” to both causes. It concluded that there “are no simple answers to the war in Vietnam or to racial injustice in this country.” The Washington Post editorial board said King had “diminished his usefulness to his cause, his country and his people.” In all, 168 newspapers denounced him the next day.
King had long considered himself a socialist, In 1966, he told staff at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference that “there must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism. Call it what you may, call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”
The last years of King’s life saw him escalate his campaign against economic inequality. He campaigned against the Oklahoma right-to-work referendum and warned that increased economic competition between whites and blacks would undermine civil rights — calling instead for a “Grand Alliance” between working-class whites and blacks.
He sought to use many of the same tactics he deployed in the South — boycotts, sit-ins, blockades — against economic injustice in inner cities in the North where African-Americans were trapped in endemic poverty. An article from the August 15, 1967, issue of The New York Times writes up King’s desire to “dislocate” large cities to force them to address these needs SourceEDIT: Happy Robert E. Lee day for all the racists  MLK's niece voted Trump http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mlks-niece-alveda-king-says-she-voted-for-trump/article/2611971
That's wholly unsurprising. She also supported Herman Cain (without an official endorsement) in 2012. She also tried to tell us MLK jr. was Republican
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
What good is taxing people more if they just move their money away? Arguably the willingness of certain countries to be tax havens makes that a losing strategy.
And if the trade folk have their way, you will be able to sue to change laws against stuff that makes business harder.
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On January 17 2017 13:37 LegalLord wrote: What good is taxing people more if they just move their money away? Arguably the willingness of certain countries to be tax havens makes that a losing strategy.
And if the trade folk have their way, you will be able to sue to change laws against stuff that makes business harder.
well yeah thats the problem obviously.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 17 2017 13:24 Nyxisto wrote:Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty + Show Spoiler +The more genuine interpretation I think would be to say that the 1% are cashing in the dividends, not the lion's share. I mean pretty much the only group that really suffers is the industrial boomer generation in the developed world. Say that the trouble of Westerners really is to the benefit of billions of third worlders. Here's a callous question: why should we care about them? Such is the question anyone who sees "our people" and "their people" as a reality would be asking. And nationalism certainly isn't going anywhere.
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On January 17 2017 13:53 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 13:24 Nyxisto wrote:Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty + Show Spoiler +The more genuine interpretation I think would be to say that the 1% are cashing in the dividends, not the lion's share. I mean pretty much the only group that really suffers is the industrial boomer generation in the developed world. Say that the trouble of Westerners really is to the benefit of billions of third worlders. Here's a callous question: why should we care about them? Such is the question anyone who sees "our people" and "their people" as a reality would be asking. And nationalism certainly isn't going anywhere.
Well because they're real people with real lives and we've generally come to think that our values are universal and not just reserved for any given nation state. Especially the US was always an outward looking society both on the conservative and liberal side. There's really not much to argue, if you reject that there's value in bettering the lives of a billion people. Seems just self-evident to me, I don't think there's anything you could possibly say.
I think it is important though at least as far as globalization criticism from the left is concerned, because they usually don't attack it on tribalist grounds.
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On January 17 2017 14:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 13:53 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2017 13:24 Nyxisto wrote:Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty + Show Spoiler +The more genuine interpretation I think would be to say that the 1% are cashing in the dividends, not the lion's share. I mean pretty much the only group that really suffers is the industrial boomer generation in the developed world. Say that the trouble of Westerners really is to the benefit of billions of third worlders. Here's a callous question: why should we care about them? Such is the question anyone who sees "our people" and "their people" as a reality would be asking. And nationalism certainly isn't going anywhere. Well because they're real people with real lives and we've generally come to think that our values are universal and not just reserved for any given nation state.
I've always thought that this was an insanely naive sentiment. It is self-evident that there are other cultures that do not share western values. The bottom line is that our generosity needs more strings attached.
Especially the US was always an outward looking society both on the conservative and liberal side. There's really not much to argue, if you reject that there's value in bettering the lives of a billion people. Seems just self-evident to me, I don't think there's anything you could possibly say.
I think it is important though at least as far as globalization criticism from the left is concerned, because they usually don't attack it on tribalist grounds.
And this is untrue. America has only been outward looking since World War II. We have a rich history of being isolationist.
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I didn't say that there don't need to be strings attached or that this is something unconditional, but it surely is something to be taken into account and that's a very valuable end in itself. Also I don't see it as naive. The isolationist periods of almost any country don't coincide with great national prosperity. It's the post war period that catapulted the US into a position of world power. I didn't really think many Americans look back fondly to the isolationist periods. Mostly they seem to coincide with low national self-esteem and a rather pessimistic outlook on things.
This is also something that seems very characteristic of many of Trump's policies. If you're really convinced that you're a strong and confident nation you don't literally need to wall yourself in.
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On January 17 2017 14:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +Especially the US was always an outward looking society both on the conservative and liberal side. There's really not much to argue, if you reject that there's value in bettering the lives of a billion people. Seems just self-evident to me, I don't think there's anything you could possibly say.
I think it is important though at least as far as globalization criticism from the left is concerned, because they usually don't attack it on tribalist grounds. And this is untrue. America has only been outward looking since World War II. We have a rich history of being isolationist. This is a simplistic and inaccurate statement. While the U.S. long pursued a policy of non-engagement in European conflicts, it wasn't strictly isolationist (as in only inward-looking) per se. This is for example well illustrated by the formulation of the Monroe doctrine in 1823, which already highlighted the U.S.' interest in exerting its influence on the Americas.
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On January 17 2017 13:20 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2017 10:01 Blisse wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.allgeneralizationsarefalse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/News-Quality.V4.jpg) Found this neat gradient of the news. Would move a bunch of things like Slate left and down, Huffington down, Vox left and down, WSJ left, WaPo left, AP up, Reuters up, etc. etc. but yeah doesn't look too off. Maybe you could argue that you should move Breitbart up a bit but I'm not reading any more of their content and giving them traffic or ad money. It's not so much that the MSM was/is against Trump so much as lots of "normal" people are against Trump. And I would say being specifically anti-Trump is different from being anti-Republican and that spectrum. Looks like a very poor representation of the media to be honest.Very little research done. For example they've got naturalnews as far left and infowars as far right yet the founder, owner and main contributor of naturalnews, Mike Adams, hosted infowars video segments for years.He only stopped around three years ago when Jones started selling his own supplements, undercutting Adams' own vitamin business.Adams is no liberal. And CNN "minimal bias"? Hahaha!
All this really shows is that some people live in an alternate reality with regards to how they view the world. But really your one person rebuttal is easily defeated by going to naturalnews and going to infowars and looking at the content. The extreme left isn't really liberal as much as it is extreme. The political spectrum is theorized to be more horseshoe shaped, where the far left is more similar to the far right. That would fit better with Adams's history. There's a lot of flavours of extreme left and right.
But... who's right? Who's wrong? Who can say? All I know is a bunch of r/T_D Trumper's believe in a reality that's different from what lots of other people believe in whether it's the MSM being biased or the MSM colluding or that Obama isn't American or Clinton trafficks children or something, a lot of people would vote Democrat or Republican regardless of the person at the helm, Comey kept dropping nothings that dropped Hillary's polling by 2-4 points due to the news, the Clinton name had been smeared for 20 years probably for good reason, a bunch of American's lost faith in the news, Trump did a bunch of disgusting shit that wasn't strong enough to overcome significant political alignment, the DNC didn't want Bernie, and Clinton wasn't strong enough to overcome these factors and more.
I think this piece by the NY Times pretty much goes over some of the criticisms. Up to you if you think they're valid. For example this one where she voted due to her kid and that she thinks Trump's rallies were calming. I don't think I'd be able to understand that as a reason. But the other points, sure.
But I had an 8-year-old who was totally on the Trump train. He talked me into taking him to a Trump rally. I expected him to be like what I’d seen on the news, saying hateful things. But his presence was very calming and I liked his talking points. We really are the middle class, and we kind of get swept aside.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/14/us/women-voters-trump.html?_r=0
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On January 17 2017 13:24 Nyxisto wrote: Shouldn't neglect the billion people or so that the dreaded globalisation has lifted out of absolute poverty
Jesus, this is such an illogical argument.
People were lifted out of poverty DURING the era of globalisation, that doesn't mean it happened BECAUSE of it.
This weird capitalist dogma... Just because the capitalist system hasn't managed to have ALL the benefits of a hundred years of progress go to the .1% doesn't mean it's a beneficial system.
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The System in general seems to work just fine. Just somehow the "Bosses" got away with taking most of the winnings while workers, in comparison, got way less.
We wouldn't even need high taxes/redistribution, having an elite with a basic Moral compass would allready be enough. Well, even "poor" People vote right wing cause they rather fight against scarecrows than issues... Who can blame the actually smart guys for exploiting this stupidiy?
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On January 17 2017 19:51 Velr wrote: The System in general seems to work just fine.
Yeah, if you live in Switzerland.
If you lived in the US, India or China you would likely sing a different tune.
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With the same underlying issue. Few people get filthy damn rich and normal workers don't get enough. while actually enabling these few People getting filthy rich in the first place... Be it some clothing deathtrap/facility in China, a fast food chain in the US or whatever... Doesn't matter.
But yeah, globalisation and Immigration are the boogymen... Its not that the bonus of a CEO (or just higher tier Manager) is bigger than the payraise all "low" employes get together - if they get one.
Imho the solution is simple, if employes are somehow need any form of (direct) goverment assistance, despite working 80%+, their company should be forced to raise its wages (or the state could write them a bill).
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