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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 23 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 07:15 LegalLord wrote:
As a person with snow-white skin I'm apparently meant to just die off so demography can do its work. I bet my skin is paler than yours, I had the palest skin of any male in my high school, and paler than most of the women too. Though I don't think it's quite as pale now, still pretty pale though. Also, you don't have to die off until 2500 or so. by that point the races will have mixed enough as to have lost most meaning probably.
At current rate humans won't exist by 2500.
Either extinction or transhumanism seems the future.
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On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....?
I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird
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On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird
Letters you pay per ounce/package, calls you pay per minute.
Short exchanges are easier with a call, long ones are cheaper by letter.
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On December 23 2016 08:58 On_Slaught wrote:
Per the BBC article Trumps proclamation comes hours, yes just hours, after Purun announced a desire to increase Russia's nuclear capabilities.
Just think about how absurd this is. Russia announces a major strategic move and a few hours later, plenty of time to make meaningful military and foreign policy decisions of course, Trump TWEETS out what is apparently new American policy.
Ignoring the stupidity of trying to start another arms race with Russia, the process here is pathetic. Aren't you embarrased? I know I am.
There's a very real potential for foreign policy blunders under Trump, especially if he's going to tie his ego up with policy rather than just media and twitter stuff.
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I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he pulled the US into some stupid conflict by virtue of the perception of being personally slighted.
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On December 23 2016 11:08 LegalLord wrote:
I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he pulled the US into some stupid conflict by virtue of the perception of being personally slighted.
well he's certainly butting into Israel.
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On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird
Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/
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On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/
The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country.
Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons?
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On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons?
tbh I have a feeling most conservatives don't know prisons are private institutions. Their rhetoric focuses on the idea that the government "gets you", "imprisons you", etc...
I never hear rallies calling for the 2nd amendment to protect them from the corporations who imprison them.
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On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons?
Robocop was the future "we at OCP have made money in fields that were traditionally nonprofit hopsitals, police, prisons"
line was basically that. it's depressing to think how true that is now. except the cops aren't privatized yet.
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On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons?
Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term.
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On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term.
I think the question people have is "why is that a private industry responsibility?"
All of that could be done on the state/federal level.
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regarding 2nd amendment people
living in a rural pro gun community the main issue with the prison system here is that there’s not enough room and because of California rulings a lot of people had to get released so you see a lot of drug offenders and homeless running around and stuff like gas being siphoned isn’t really investigated. so they want more prisons. of course rather than complain that the local city council won’t pass anything to deal with the addiction problems in the community (things have been proposed but always die) they’d rather just blame that damn governor Jerry Brown and claim that he’s the worst governor ever and that California hates the rural community. I find it a bit ironic that these are the same personal responsibility people who want the government to do less but won't even try to solve the issue locally without wanting money for more prisons. of course the community is also mostly white so don’t know if thats important.
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On December 23 2016 15:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term. I think the question people have is "why is that a private industry responsibility?" All of that could be done on the state/federal level.
and the basic answer would be why not? You're hitting the question that plagues the left-right divide over the split between a public service and making it a private industry.
It is being done on a state/federal level and its okay I guess but not really that good. Why not try to make it a private industry that will incentive's a better output then what the government can do. You make the private-public decision on a judgement call on whats more efficient/ whats better for society. And I think that private prisons can help rehabilitate the margins of criminals better then the public option.
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On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term.
You do see though that 'delivering a fully functional member of society' is not in the interest of a private prison right? It robs them of their customers. Not to mention that prisons cannot produce functioning members of society, because the fact that you are in a prison de-socialises you. There's nothing that ensures long term criminality more than a stay in prison.
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On December 23 2016 15:24 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
regarding 2nd amendment people
living in a rural pro gun community the main issue with the prison system here is that there’s not enough room and because of California rulings a lot of people had to get released so you see a lot of drug offenders and homeless running around and stuff like gas being siphoned isn’t really investigated. so they want more prisons. of course rather than complain that the local city council won’t pass anything to deal with the addiction problems in the community (things have been proposed but always die) they’d rather just blame that damn governor Jerry Brown and claim that he’s the worst governor ever and that California hates the rural community. I find it a bit ironic that these are the same personal responsibility people who want the government to do less but won't even try to solve the issue locally without wanting money for more prisons. of course the community is also mostly white so don’t know if thats important.
Both Jerry Brown and the court system are largely at fault the absurd releases they are making. Meanwhile, solving it locally is a hard issue, because many of the homeless (or criminals) don't care about help programs or temporary housing. Voluntary programs certainly won't solve the problem.
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On December 23 2016 15:28 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term. You do see though that 'delivering a fully functional member of society' is not in the interest of a private prison right? It robs them of their customers. Not to mention that prisons cannot produce functioning members of society, because the fact that you are in a prison de-socialises you. There's nothing that ensures long term criminality more than a stay in prison.
well if you read the whole post instead of looking for your trigger words you'd see that I made the point of delivering a fully functional member of society being part of what you use to judge how much you pay them. You're a dumb because just because you're in a prison doesn't automatically de-socialize you. It matters what the prison does to the slaves and how it treats the slaves. Or better yet doesn't treat the inmates as slaves so they feel like they're there to get out of crime and maybe have a normal live. I mean what else do you want people to do either tell a court to judge if they should just hang the person now and save problems down the line or just let people off without a punishment?
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On December 23 2016 15:44 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 15:28 Nyxisto wrote:On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term. You do see though that 'delivering a fully functional member of society' is not in the interest of a private prison right? It robs them of their customers. Not to mention that prisons cannot produce functioning members of society, because the fact that you are in a prison de-socialises you. There's nothing that ensures long term criminality more than a stay in prison. well if you read the whole post instead of looking for your trigger words you'd see that I made the point of delivering a fully functional member of society being part of what you use to judge how much you pay them. You're a dumb because just because you're in a prison doesn't automatically de-socialize you. It matters what the prison does to the slaves and how it treats the slaves. Or better yet doesn't treat the inmates as slaves so they feel like they're there to get out of crime and maybe have a normal live. I mean what else do you want people to do either tell a court to judge if they should just hang the person now and save problems down the line or just let people off without a punishment?
I did read your post, it doesn't matter how 'well' you treat them, it's being locked up in a cage that damages you for good. Doesn't work with animals and doesn't work with humans either. And yes the US is completely out of control as far as punishment is concerned. You don't need to put any petty thief into prison. The US runs the largest prison population both per capita and absolute on the planet, it's completely vindictive and crazy. Prison exists to lock dangerous guys up, not to punish.
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On December 23 2016 15:51 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2016 15:44 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2016 15:28 Nyxisto wrote:On December 23 2016 15:14 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2016 14:29 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2016 13:51 bloooargh wrote:On December 23 2016 09:47 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On December 23 2016 09:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On December 23 2016 03:10 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:When he was in prison, Lorenzo Palma strongly suspected he was an American citizen. He had spent his whole life in the United States, and he knew his grandfather was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1914.
Palma had served five years on an assault conviction and was about to be released on parole, but immigration officials had stopped his release because they wanted to deport him. They said he wasn't a U.S. citizen.
So in the summer of 2014, Palma found himself among dozens of inmates about to face an immigration judge in Huntsville, Texas. "They would sit us by groups of 10 and they would start deporting left and right," he said.
Getting the paperwork to prove his citizenship was hard: He didn't have money to call his mother in El Paso, Texas, so he was forced to send letters asking her to find the documents.
When it was Palma's turn in court, Judge Richard Walton was short. Palma tried to explain that he was an American. But Walton simply asked Palma if he wanted time to get a lawyer; Palma said yes. Court recordings obtained by NPR show that Palma then softly asked Walton what his chances were of staying in the country.
"Are you a gambling man?" Walton asked. "If I told you [that] you had a 91 percent chance to stay, do you think that would be good? Because you still might fall into that 9 percent chance."
***
It's illegal for U.S. immigration authorities to hold Americans in detention.
However, an NPR analysis of data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request shows that hundreds of American citizens each year find themselves in a situation similar to Palma's. That data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635/you-say-you-re-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported How can you not have money to call someone but enough money to send a letter....? I found that the most bizarre part too. American prisons are weird Phone calls are another revenue stream in American prisons. Up to $14 a minute: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/court-stops-fccs-latest-attempt-to-lower-prison-phone-rates/ The entire idea of privatized prisons is just so fucking foul. Definitely one of the big blemishes of our country. Edit: Is this something conservatives disagree with? Are there people on TL cool with privatized prisons? Private prisons I think are a great thing in concept and potential, its just terribly directed and executed. Right now the only thing private prisons care about is keeping the slaves fed watered and in a half decent sleeping environment. If we instead directed theses corporations to take in the raw material that is Joe criminal and deliver a product of a fully functioning member of society it'd be good. Concentrate on factors such as their propensity to re enter a jail and their ability to find a job and the quality of that job. Would save the government money and would probably make money in the super long term. You do see though that 'delivering a fully functional member of society' is not in the interest of a private prison right? It robs them of their customers. Not to mention that prisons cannot produce functioning members of society, because the fact that you are in a prison de-socialises you. There's nothing that ensures long term criminality more than a stay in prison. well if you read the whole post instead of looking for your trigger words you'd see that I made the point of delivering a fully functional member of society being part of what you use to judge how much you pay them. You're a dumb because just because you're in a prison doesn't automatically de-socialize you. It matters what the prison does to the slaves and how it treats the slaves. Or better yet doesn't treat the inmates as slaves so they feel like they're there to get out of crime and maybe have a normal live. I mean what else do you want people to do either tell a court to judge if they should just hang the person now and save problems down the line or just let people off without a punishment? I did read your post, it doesn't matter how 'well' you treat them, it's being locked up in a cage that damages you for good. Doesn't work with animals and doesn't work with humans either. And yes the US is completely out of control as far as the punishment is concerned. You don't need to put any petty thief into prison. The US runs the largest prison population both per capita and absolute on the planet, it's completely vindictive and crazy. Prison exists to lock dangerous guys up, not to punish.
I put my dog in a cage whenever hes bad and whenever I leave and hes a good dog. Prisons exist to separate criminals from the general society as a punishment yes. But the rehabilitation that occurs while they're prisoners (or slaves as is in the US) is what the system is ment for. I don't think its the worst system in the world but if we wish to lock up more of our criminals then thats the decision we made as a nation.
I asked you what you think should happen to criminals if you think prisons are not even good enough for dogs. Whats your solution past the 50-50 hang them/ let them go free system?
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Fine them, give them a counsellor, put them in group therapy, legalise nonsensical crimes or have them pick up trash at a park or whatever. That's what everybody else does, you literally have eight to ten times as many people in prison as every other comparable nation, that's not normal
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EPT
