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On November 13 2016 04:48 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 02:29 zlefin wrote:On November 13 2016 02:22 Buckyman wrote:On November 13 2016 01:58 zlefin wrote:
I wonder if we should add political affilitation to the list of things covered by the hate crimes statutes. opinions on that? I don't see why our hate crime statues are based on lists of 'protected' attributes in the first place. how would you alternately have them run? As an additional punishment for using certain crimes to deter people from exercising certain rights (e.g. petition, association, worship, voting) irrespective of how the rights were being exercised.
that sounds like a rather different purpose than their original one.
as most hate crimes charges aren't related to interference with any of those rights.
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1. Be real, Obama would have won again.
2. Stop the fucking minority/race politics talk. Talking non stop about it makes it worse, not better.
3. Fuck, you voted for the orange asshole.
User was warned for this post
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Or maybe the people from the us know what us politics is about and what we should talk about.
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On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries.
As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid).
The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle.
As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes.
I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point.
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What are the chances that Trump appoints Steve Bannon for White House Chief of Staff? Certainly hope he keeps the bigoted section out of our government.
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On November 13 2016 06:40 yrba1 wrote:
What are the chances that Trump appoints Steve Bannon for White House Chief of Staff? Certainly hope he keeps the bigoted section out of our government.
If he's actually going to pick the best person for the job it will be Reince.
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If Obama meets with him enough and the GOP build walls between him and the alt-right, there's a decent chance he leaves Bannon high and dry.
That and formally saying "anyone doing awful things 'for me' is an awful scumbag who doesn't represent me or America" are probably the two biggest things they're pushing for at the moment. He doesn't need any of those people anymore (it's not like working-class Midwestern folks are big fans of Breitbart/the alt-right), and jettisoning them would help him massively.
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On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point.
Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote.
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On November 13 2016 03:43 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 03:08 RvB wrote:On November 13 2016 02:31 Doodsmack wrote:On November 13 2016 02:10 RvB wrote:On November 13 2016 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:On November 13 2016 01:23 travis wrote:On November 13 2016 01:10 Doodsmack wrote:
Also have we talked about how "We don't have a country anymore" is an inherently racist statement? It's saying look at all these Mexicans. "Take our country back" means take it back from the brown skinned people who have been in the White House and going on welfare and crossing the border and suicide bombing and killing each other in gang warfare and having babies with no father around. That's the rallying cry of the core Trump electorate - "We don't have a country anymore" and "Take our country back". What are you basing this interpretation on? I would take it to mean "we aren't being represented, no one is looking out for our interests". "We don't have a country anymore" is very different from "we aren't being represented". It can just as well be about culture. Making it about race is your own interpretation nothing more. I went to a high school in rural PA with 1/4 Hispanics. And I never felt the need to react to them or care. These days, the town is nice and white, people go to McDonald's and have iPhones, and it's all good. So I personally don't take seriously the "culture" excuse. I don't really care just like you. I'm also pro immigration. That doesn't mean it isn't a real thing and very important to some people as LegalLord mentioned. It looks to me like you've already decided that the statement is racist and that any other possible explanation is simply an excuse. We'll have to agree to disagree here. The ones who, unlike us, do care, are intolerant and therefore racist. And yes, there's more to it than "all new immigrants are Democrats". Show them that Republican policies work, unlike trickle down and ME invasions, and you could earn some votes.
What are the ways in which your culture is affected?
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On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote.
Yeah true. He's making the calculation that the DNC and Hillary supporter's actions outweigh in importance the Donald Trump presidency.
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How is it acceptable that Trumps children will run his companies ánd are on the executive commision of the policy transition team? Besides Roman Empire-like family involvement isn't this a totally unacceptable conflict of interests?
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On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote.
On November 13 2016 07:38 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. Yeah true. He's making the calculation that the DNC and Hillary supporter's actions outweigh in importance the Donald Trump presidency.
I voted, it just wasn't for either of them. Not that it mattered anyway, she won my state. So I'm the wrong person to come at to try to shame or say I don't have a right to complain. If anyone, it's Hillary supporters who shouldn't be complaining, their candidate intentionally elevated Trump.
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On November 13 2016 07:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 07:38 Doodsmack wrote:On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. Yeah true. He's making the calculation that the DNC and Hillary supporter's actions outweigh in importance the Donald Trump presidency. I voted, it just wasn't for either of them. Not that it mattered anyway, she won my state. So I'm the wrong person to come at to try to shame or say I don't have a right to complain. If anyone, it's Hillary supporters who shouldn't be complaining, their candidate intentionally elevated Trump.
IT doesn't matter that she won washington. You didn't vote for a candidate that had a chance to win, so you don't get to complain about the outcome, it's that simple. You stayed out of the election by not voting for a candidate that had a chance to win.
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On November 13 2016 07:51 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 07:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. On November 13 2016 07:38 Doodsmack wrote:On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. Yeah true. He's making the calculation that the DNC and Hillary supporter's actions outweigh in importance the Donald Trump presidency. I voted, it just wasn't for either of them. Not that it mattered anyway, she won my state. So I'm the wrong person to come at to try to shame or say I don't have a right to complain. If anyone, it's Hillary supporters who shouldn't be complaining, their candidate intentionally elevated Trump. IT doesn't matter that she won washington. You didn't vote for a candidate that had a chance to win, so you don't get to complain about the outcome, it's that simple. You stayed out of the election by not voting for a candidate that had a chance to win.
That's a ridiculous logic, and even more when you consider the voting method in the US...
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On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, America is the only country in the world where when someone doesn't get elected, it's the electorate's fault.
I have no problem saying that leftists who voted Trump over Clinton made a mistake, cause they objectively did. Just because they made a political choice that doesn't make rational sense, doesn't mean you get to blame them for your candidate's loss. Candidates who lose are to blame for their loss. That's what losing means.
If we follow the logic to its end, plenty of people voted for Clinton over Bernie cause she was more electable (including a few people here, at least that was part of their argument). Should we now blame them for Trump? No, they had a rationale that doesn't appear to be very good. But that's okay, that's going to happen. A lot. Every election.
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On November 13 2016 07:39 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:How is it acceptable that Trumps children will run his companies ánd are on the executive commision of the policy transition team? Besides Roman Empire-like family involvement isn't this a totally unacceptable conflict of interests?
it's poor form. iirc not strictly illegal. it's not like his assets could be put into a blind trust anyways, so there's gonna be conflicts, and there's no way to prevent him from potentially doing things that would enrich him.
I'm sure some people will complain about it. I'm not sure much can be done legally; though I suppose congress could try to quickly pass a law to forbid such.
at least his kids are, in general, much better people than he is.
on the other current thread topic: the 1st amendment includes the right to complain. so that applies regardless of if/how someone voted. i'd say that should apply as a moral right as well as a legal one.
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https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
-snip-
Understand That Working Class Means Middle Class, Not Poor
The terminology here can be confusing. When progressives talk about the working class, typically they mean the poor. But the poor, in the bottom 30% of American families, are very different from Americans who are literally in the middle: the middle 50% of families whose median income was $64,000 in 2008. That is the true “middle class,” and they call themselves either “middle class” or “working class.”
“The thing that really gets me is that Democrats try to offer policies (paid sick leave! minimum wage!) that would help the working class,” a friend just wrote me. A few days’ paid leave ain’t gonna support a family. Neither is minimum wage. WWC men aren’t interested in working at McDonald’s for $15 per hour instead of $9.50. What they want is what my father-in-law had: steady, stable, full-time jobs that deliver a solid middle-class life to the 75% of Americans who don’t have a college degree. Trump promises that. I doubt he’ll deliver, but at least he understands what they need.
Understand Working-Class Resentment of the Poor
Remember when President Obama sold Obamacare by pointing out that it delivered health care to 20 million people? Just another program that taxed the middle class to help the poor, said the WWC, and in some cases that’s proved true: The poor got health insurance while some Americans just a notch richer saw their premiums rise.
Progressives have lavished attention on the poor for over a century. That (combined with other factors) led to social programs targeting them. Means-tested programs that help the poor but exclude the middle may keep costs and tax rates lower, but they are a recipe for class conflict. Example: 28.3% of poor families receive child-care subsidies, which are largely nonexistent for the middle class. So my sister-in-law worked full-time for Head Start, providing free child care for poor women while earning so little that she almost couldn’t pay for her own. She resented this, especially the fact that some of the kids’ moms did not work. One arrived late one day to pick up her child, carrying shopping bags from Macy’s. My sister-in-law was livid.
-snip-
Understand How Class Divisions Have Translated into Geography
The best advice I’ve seen so far for Democrats is the recommendation that hipsters move to Iowa. Class conflict now closely tracks the urban-rural divide. In the huge red plains between the thin blue coasts, shockingly high numbers of working-class men are unemployed or on disability, fueling a wave of despair deaths in the form of the opioid epidemic.
Vast rural areas are withering away, leaving trails of pain. When did you hear any American politician talk about that? Never.
-snip-
Found an opinion piece that I really enjoyed.
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On November 13 2016 07:51 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2016 07:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. On November 13 2016 07:38 Doodsmack wrote:On November 13 2016 07:31 hunts wrote:On November 13 2016 06:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2016 01:05 Doodsmack wrote:
Wonder how the BernieBros and activists who supported Bernie and did not vote for Hillary feel now that a leadership team is taking effect. Guy who worked for AG Alberto Gonzales during the firing of US Attorneys is part of it. Now this is where they have meetings for the media with a "Make America Safe Again" slogan on a TV. Trump is the "Law and Order" candidate. US Attorneys, I'm going to take an educated guess are heavily involved in setting prosecution priorities. Trump has also talked about purging Obama's appointees. How is that social justice coming along?
I feel vindicated personally, and no, I did not vote for Clinton (or Trump). Racists didn't carry Trump to the presidency, the Democrat establishment did. They did everything they possibly could for a Trump win. They even intentionally elevated him during the primaries. As for which voters, it was white females that Hillary most took for granted (and didn't vote for her, but did vote Trump). Many of those women and white males, voted Obama in 08 and 12, which is one reason Hillary presumed they would vote for her (that was stupid). The general cloud of racism, misogyny, othering, etc... that's always hung over our country just made people comfortable enough to rationalize, justify, and/or ignore Trump's bigoted rhetoric. That's not to say some racists weren't excited (and this does impact turnout) for a Trump win, but they wouldn't have mattered had Dem's just put up a candidate that wasn't so terrible for this cycle. As for how social justice is going, groups are seeing sign-ups come in faster than they did all election, Hillary supporters have been coming in and apologizing and figuring out how we can get back to working together, and lots of other great stuff is already happening. Unfortunately part of why that is, is increasing stories about people taking a Trump win as a license to be assholes. I feel like Hillary supporters should be over blaming anyone but themselves and their candidate at this point. Then you have no room to complain if trump makes your life and the lives of those around you worse, because you didn't vote. Yeah true. He's making the calculation that the DNC and Hillary supporter's actions outweigh in importance the Donald Trump presidency. I voted, it just wasn't for either of them. Not that it mattered anyway, she won my state. So I'm the wrong person to come at to try to shame or say I don't have a right to complain. If anyone, it's Hillary supporters who shouldn't be complaining, their candidate intentionally elevated Trump. IT doesn't matter that she won washington. You didn't vote for a candidate that had a chance to win, so you don't get to complain about the outcome, it's that simple. You stayed out of the election by not voting for a candidate that had a chance to win.
lmao you have no clue how it works here
I assume GH voted for a third party candidate because he knew 1) His state was going to go blue anyway 2) he agreed with the third party candidates' policies more 3) he wanted the third party candidate to get 5% of the popular vote so that they would get federal campaign funding.
I did the exact same thing.
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If it's true what GH said about Clinton team members basically telling people like him "fuck off, we don't need your input, just vote for us and get out of the way" then there really wasn't any good option. One side is in active opposition to what he wants, the other would pay lip service but do nothing in his favor. And he lives in a state where it doesn't matter. There is absolutely no option for him that would do any good in the short term.
I personally couldn't vote in a way that is not consistent with who has a chance of winning, but at the same time I don't blame GH. And on the one hand I voted Clinton, but on the other hand I don't really have any of that outrage associated with being on the losing side because I feel like I lost either way and it's hard to even say what "lose less" looks like. I made the "safer" decision, we got the "dice roll" decision instead, and making the best of it is all we can do now.
Before looking at those traitors like GH who didn't fall in line to prevent Hitler the Second from coming into power, it's best to take a good hard look at what pushed someone who is deeply on the left, who should be a safe vote for Clinton, to feel that there really isn't any difference between "victory" and "defeat" here as far as results are concerned. That problem starts with the candidate and her most loyal supporters who covered for her.
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DNC shenanigans aside The Dems actually had some pretty good policy focused debates and Clinton won the primaries quite convincingly by popular vote. Sure some newspapers like the Wapo took a sledgehammer to Bernie but there was still a popular vote gap of 4 million or ~12%.
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EPT
