EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5810
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On October 29 2016 11:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Aren't you from Britain? You know that gold is up 45% in GBP terms this year right? Because of an event that very few on here predicted would happen.Trump predicted it. America is twenty trillion in debt.Ten trillion has been added in the past eight years by Obama, or more than all previous presidents combined.Thats what it took to deliver the weakest economic performance since Hoover.First president since Hoover to not have at least one year 3% GDP growth.Debt is increasing exponentially for less and less return, It's not a conspiracy to suggest this will not end well. It's hard to take that seriously when he does this after Brexit. Donald Trump congratulates Scotland on a vote it didn’t make http://qz.com/715928/they-took-their-country-back-donald-trump-congratulates-scotland-on-a-vote-it-didnt-make/ Like Trump looks like he has some nice qualities, but how are they not massively dwarfed by his mountain of negatives? His multiple failing businesses, complete inability to expand upon policies, his insistence that the element of surprise is everything that's missing in the ISIS situation and that he'll fix it in his first 30 days in office? His insistence that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy? Trump's tax plan also adds another $10 trillion to the debt. How do you respond to that? He even revised that one to a new one now costing somewhere between $2-6 trillion. Is your argument only that everyone's analysis is wrong like with Brexit? I just really want to know how are you convinced that Trump will do a better job than Clinton at fixing the problems in this country? Are you of the opinion that anyone could do a better job than Obama and Hillary? | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14892 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
Very disturbing video. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
Trump's tax plan also adds another $10 trillion to the debt. How do you respond to that? He even revised that one to a new one now costing somewhere between $2-6 trillion. Is your argument only that everyone's analysis is wrong like with Brexit? I just really want to know how are you convinced that Trump will do a better job than Clinton at fixing the problems in this country? Are you of the opinion that anyone could do a better job than Obama and Hillary? I've only ever stated that i think Trump will win, not that he will be a great president. Nobody can turn around the turd that is the US economy and debt situation.Collapse of the US dollar is inevitable at this point whoever is in charge.There is no way to pay off the US debt without hyperinflating the currency to oblivion. The good thing about Trump is at least he recognises that there is a serious issue with the debt, jobs going overseas and can openly state what a failure globalism has been along with the disastrous middle eastern wars.Sticking your head in the sand won't help, it's time to face the music. The issue with Hillary is if she gets into office they cannot blame the economic problems on Bush anymore so they will need a diversion, something else to blame.World War 3 is a very real possibility with Clinton in charge, Stein has mentioned this as have many others.With regard to a far lower chance of WW3 with Russia and exposing the failure and corruption of the old system Trump is better than Clinton. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 29 2016 13:10 Danglars wrote: I'm having trouble believing this Comey thing is all about updating Congress about the status of the previously closed investigation to Congress. He's going to take flak regardless, why not just announce Day or week after? Because the FBI is in total chaos with multiple agents leaking thier utter disbelief about the first recommendation not to charge. This was coming out before the election with or without Comey. The Friday release means he was trying to minimize the political fallout. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
On October 29 2016 11:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: America is twenty trillion in debt.Ten trillion has been added in the past eight years by Obama, or more than all previous presidents combined.Thats what it took to deliver the weakest economic performance since Hoover.First president since Hoover to not have at least one year 3% GDP growth.Debt is increasing exponentially for less and less return, It's not a conspiracy to suggest this will not end well. My best estimate suggests the defecit is reversible at this point by increased/restructured taxes but the debt would take a long time to pay off and it would very likely trigger a recession. It'd also help to get rid of some of the less economically beneficial expenditures, of course, but that's a hard sell. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On October 29 2016 13:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I've only ever stated that i think Trump will win, not that he will be a great president. Nobody can turn around the turd that is the US economy and debt situation.Collapse of the US dollar is inevitable at this point whoever is in charge.There is no way to pay off the US debt without hyperinflating the currency to oblivion. The good thing about Trump is at least he recognises that there is a serious issue with the debt, jobs going overseas and can openly state what a failure globalism has been along with the disastrous middle eastern wars.Sticking your head in the sand won't help, it's time to face the music. The issue with Hillary is if she gets into office they cannot blame the economic problems on Bush anymore so they will need a diversion, something else to blame.World War 3 is a very real possibility with Clinton in charge, Stein has mentioned this as have many others.With regard to a far lower chance of WW3 with Russia and exposing the failure and corruption of the old system Trump is better than Clinton. Okay so point by point. You say there's an issue with the debt, but his plan is to increase the debt? Like sure the debt is large, but what's the problem with it where that acknowledge it and increasing it makes things better? And every country is in debt, debt itself means nothing, it depends on how it's used. I agree with jobs going overseas, but how does cutting taxes on the rich help? That's what Trump wants to do. How does cutting taxes on corporations help? All of our research says cutting taxes doesn't help because it literally takes money away from the government and now needs to be taken from elsewhere, essentially stressing the middle and low class. Do you disagree with the research? Do you trust Trump's instincts? Even though he has so many failed businesses? How has globalism been a failure? Like specifically how? What are the specific instances you're talking about? Globalism means all sorts of things. Are you not a fan of out-sourcing? Has your job become redundant? Do you feel like your low-middle class hasn't enjoyed any financial security improvements because of "globalism"? Why do you think going backwards on globalism is the solution as opposed to better policies? Why focus on this magical word instead of digging in on what you feel is hindering you or others? In what way has the current response to the Middle East been disastrous? The US invaded the Middle East. The US pressured the government to leave the Middle East. Leaving the Middle East was not done well because it's a complex situation and now we had problems like Aleppo and ISIS. I think Aleppo was disastrous but I also believe the entire situation is probably difficult as shit and everyone would've made mistakes doing something similar. Trump says stuff like Aleppo wouldn't have happened or that veteran's child wouldn't have died if he was in charge - don't you think that's simplifying the situation just a tad? Does Trump given you the impression that he's meticulous about all these things? How does Trump given you a better impression than Hillary other than Hillary has a history because she actually tried? The US said fuck, the Bush approach was shit, let's try a more hands-off approach to ISIS that hopefully allows the regional entities to restore and retain power. It's going slowly because they're hands-off, and we know what happens when we were hands-on (re: 2003). So how does Trump's vision of "the element of surprise" and "carpet bombing" the entire Middle East do anything to help the situation? Sure, Trump has a better relationship with Putin. So you agree with what would end up happening if the US weren't involved? With stuff like that Assad knowingly used poison gas on civilians? Where do you draw the line where currently the rebels the US supports "accidentally" bombs civilians as well? Because if you end your support, you essentially put Assad in power and destroy your relationships with the Middle East. It's a fucking complex situation, everyone knows that, waving your arms saying "it's a disaster" doesn't help at all. Has Hillary blamed the economic problems on Bush? Who have they been blaming? Do you have a source? Hasn't everyone agreed that the markets aligned in a dramatic way and that banks were involved? Do you not like that banks seem to have a hand in Hillary's pockets so she isn't going to punish them? Do you believe that Trump doesn't about the bank's feelings and that he has proposals that would do something? Do you think that breaking up the big banks is the correct idea? Do you have any clue where that would even go? Are you just supporting this because you want to stick it up to the banks? I'm not so sure that you can for sure say the risk of WW3 is higher with Clinton, given how trigger happy and temperamental Trump is about nuclear weapons. I think it is higher with Clinton, but I don't think you can just say "yes it's definitely higher" given his temperament. Do you think that Jill Stein adds legitimacy to an opinion, given that she can't seem to explain any of her ideas in depth and shit like she's hesitant about whether vaccines cause autism or that 9/11 was an inside job? Where do you see corruption in the old system? What's corrupt about it? Even though everything we've discussed here about the email case says that Clinton shouldn't be prosecuted, do you still doubt that decision? Do you just not like how large the Clinton's sphere of influence is and how their donors are so large and random and look so shady (Saudia Arabia, banks, etc)? Do you just think that Clinton is the embodiment of everything you don't like about politics and that's the most valuable quality that you're judging the president by? Like I don't mind if that's the reason you prefer Trump. I get it, I felt the same way about Harper. But in my opinion all of your other reasons just don't hold enough water, so saying them over and over again like they're the truth makes no sense. I just want you to ask yourself these questions and see if you have any reasoned response, because I think these are all reasonable questions and when Trump supporters just say "you're lying" without any proof it removes the element discussion. But in my opinion discussion is how you should shape your ideas, versus something like blind faith or ignorance. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On October 29 2016 11:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: CNN calling on Comey to resign http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/28/opinions/fbi-director-comey-should-resign-opinion-callan/index.html That would be a bad look if you ask me. CNN isn't. A random analyst who works for CNN is. Were you the one who did this same error a few weeks ago? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
Has Hillary blamed the economic problems on Bush? Who have they been blaming? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Democrats blamed Bush entirely for the GFC? Not that i am stating he is in anyway blameless, just repeating that they cannot blame him still for any further economic issues. Here is 538s take on it entitled "The Blame Bush era may be at an end" - 2014 http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-blame-bush-era-may-be-at-an-end/ You say there's an issue with the debt, but his plan is to increase the debt? His plan is to print money.This is how fiat currencies die.I never said he could tackle the US debt, I said nobody can.Just don't pretend Obama is presiding over some amazing economic recovery when it took him 10 trillion dollars to deliver the weakest economic performance since Hoover is all I am saying. In what way has the current response to the Middle East been disastrous? Invading Libya without congressional approval.Totally illegal.You talk of Assad yet fail to mention every time the US has forcefully removed a dictator the outcome has been worse.Libya was the richest per capita country in North Africa now it is generating hundreds of thousands of refugees per year.That is not a successful outcome.I believe in a more non-interventionist foreign policy so i disagree with Trump increasing military spending.The USA has spent over 5 trillion in the middle east since 9/11.You cannot spin this as anything other than disastrous.The best option in Syria is for the USA to pull out, including stopping funding for so called rebels.Bombing the Syrian army during a cease fire like they did a month back is a war crime. How has globalism been a failure? Like specifically how? What are the specific instances you're talking about? Globalism means all sorts of things. Are you not a fan of out-sourcing? Has your job become redundant? Do you feel like your low-middle class hasn't enjoyed any financial security improvements because of "globalism"? Why do you think going backwards on globalism is the solution as opposed to better policies? Why do you assume i am low middle class? The end goal of globalism is to put more power in the hands of fewer people, namely international organisations like the UN, IMF, WTO etc.I think power and decision making is better realised at a local level which is impossible when you're governed top down from an organisation like the EU or UN.Also one other thing I believe it's impossible to have a welfare state and open borders, you really need to decide between one and the other. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22717 Posts
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No Swear
51 Posts
On October 29 2016 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Theres a video out of people hassling a homeless woman in Hollywood who was trying to protect Trumps star from further defacement. Very disturbing video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njN75nJdCAk&feature=player_embedded damn | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7810 Posts
On October 29 2016 17:16 GreenHorizons wrote: Damn HRC's surrogates turned on the FBI quick. One out there wondering if maybe Russia is involved with these new emails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNX3k5tc_8w&feature=youtu.be&t=2m GH you are a bit predictable. Surprise us sometimes. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On October 29 2016 13:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Theres a video out of people hassling a homeless woman in Hollywood who was trying to protect Trumps star from further defacement. Very disturbing video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njN75nJdCAk&feature=player_embedded Sad video. The lumpen proletariat everywhere. On October 29 2016 18:28 Biff The Understudy wrote: GH you are a bit predictable. Surprise us sometimes. Support Trump on one idea or one comment he made and I will support you in your attempt to change GH. This is amazing : | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4315 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On October 29 2016 19:03 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Liberal Michael Moore explains why you shouldn't vote for Hillary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb1GDPaEPj4 Yeah, so you vote for who exactly ? Mister Donald Trump ? The hero of socialism right ? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 29 2016 17:16 GreenHorizons wrote: Damn HRC's surrogates turned on the FBI quick. One out there wondering if maybe Russia is involved with these new emails. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNX3k5tc_8w&feature=youtu.be&t=2m Internal FBI members turned on Comey. There's a lot of common ground about not liking how he handled this publicly. The FBI shouldn't be in the middle of a political story unless it actually has something to show. | ||
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