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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Donald Trump’s close financial ties to Energy Transfer Partners, operators of the controversial Dakota Access oil pipeline, have been laid bare, with the presidential candidate invested in the company and receiving more than $100,000 in campaign contributions from its chief executive.
Trump’s financial disclosure forms show the Republican nominee has between $500,000 and $1m invested in Energy Transfer Partners, with a further $500,000 to $1m holding in Phillips 66, which will have a 25% stake in the Dakota Access project once completed.
The financial relationship runs both ways. Kelcy Warren, chief executive of Energy Transfer Partners, has given $103,000 to elect Trump and handed over a further $66,800 to the Republican National Committee since the property developer secured the GOP’s presidential nomination.
On 29 June, Warren made $3,000 in donations to Trump’s presidential campaign. The limit for individual contributions to a candidate is $2,700 per election and it’s unclear whether Trump returned $300 to Warren. Trump’s campaign was contacted for comment.
Warren made a further $100,000 donation to the Trump Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee among Trump’s campaign, the RNC and 11 state parties, on 29 June. A day earlier, the Energy Transfer Partners chief executive doled out $66,800 in two separate donations to the RNC.
Trump is therefore indirectly linked to Dakota Access, a $3.8bn pipeline development that will funnel oil from North Dakota to Illinois. The 1,170-mile pipeline has caused uproar among Native American tribes as it runs close to the Standing Rock Sioux reservation in North Dakota. A protest camp, set up over fears the pipeline will poison water and destroy cultural heritage, has been the scene of repeated clashes between protesters and Energy Transfer Partners security staff.
A court challenge has allowed the project to go ahead but the federal government, which initially approved the project, is now reassessing its decision following an outcry by tribes and has placed a temporary halt to construction on federal land.
Source
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On October 26 2016 19:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Donald Trump’s close financial ties to Energy Transfer Partners, operators of the controversial Dakota Access oil pipeline, have been laid bare, with the presidential candidate invested in the company and receiving more than $100,000 in campaign contributions from its chief executive.
Trump’s financial disclosure forms show the Republican nominee has between $500,000 and $1m invested in Energy Transfer Partners, with a further $500,000 to $1m holding in Phillips 66, which will have a 25% stake in the Dakota Access project once completed.
The financial relationship runs both ways. Kelcy Warren, chief executive of Energy Transfer Partners, has given $103,000 to elect Trump and handed over a further $66,800 to the Republican National Committee since the property developer secured the GOP’s presidential nomination.
On 29 June, Warren made $3,000 in donations to Trump’s presidential campaign. The limit for individual contributions to a candidate is $2,700 per election and it’s unclear whether Trump returned $300 to Warren. Trump’s campaign was contacted for comment.
Warren made a further $100,000 donation to the Trump Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee among Trump’s campaign, the RNC and 11 state parties, on 29 June. A day earlier, the Energy Transfer Partners chief executive doled out $66,800 in two separate donations to the RNC.
Trump is therefore indirectly linked to Dakota Access, a $3.8bn pipeline development that will funnel oil from North Dakota to Illinois. The 1,170-mile pipeline has caused uproar among Native American tribes as it runs close to the Standing Rock Sioux reservation in North Dakota. A protest camp, set up over fears the pipeline will poison water and destroy cultural heritage, has been the scene of repeated clashes between protesters and Energy Transfer Partners security staff.
A court challenge has allowed the project to go ahead but the federal government, which initially approved the project, is now reassessing its decision following an outcry by tribes and has placed a temporary halt to construction on federal land. Source
Stupid question, what is the difference between those 2700$ limit donations directly to a candidate, and the 100.000$+ dollar donation to the "Trump Victory Fund", or whatever else organisation that obviously is also a donation to the candidate?
What is the point in the donation limit when people apparently can just bypass it whenever they like by donating to something different which is exactly the same?
This is confusing me quite a lot. Are there donation limits, or are there not, and if they are there, why are they only there for some donations but not for others? And if they are only there for some donation and not for others, why are they there at all, it seems kind of pointless.
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Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season.
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Super pacs don't have donation limits and are not supposed to directly coordinate with candidates. Colbert did a hilarious piece on super pacs years ago
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On October 26 2016 19:35 BallinWitStalin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 14:45 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
[
This is very true, and slightly disturbing. Obviously some of them have been coordinated, and I would find very little credence in, say, the allegations of an adult film star.
Let me guess, it's because she's a total slut right? Clearly porn stars are lesser human beings that don't deserve the full protections of the law and should be treated as lesser women, especially when it comes to allegations of sexual assault or impropriety. They do have a lot of sex, after all, she probably was just asking for it. They totally deserve that shit, right? They're PORN STARS. And I mean even though the entire male population participates in the consumption of pornography, that shouldn't let us get in the way of judging those women for their deplorable life choices. Clearly the consumers and participants of the pornography industry shouldn't be held to the same standards, they're only having sex with their hands, these women are having ACTUAL SEX. So fuck them, right? Right? Obligatory /s, just to be clear....
The fact that the person chose to be a porn star shows a lot about the person.
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On October 26 2016 20:04 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 19:35 BallinWitStalin wrote:On October 26 2016 14:45 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
[
This is very true, and slightly disturbing. Obviously some of them have been coordinated, and I would find very little credence in, say, the allegations of an adult film star.
Let me guess, it's because she's a total slut right? Clearly porn stars are lesser human beings that don't deserve the full protections of the law and should be treated as lesser women, especially when it comes to allegations of sexual assault or impropriety. They do have a lot of sex, after all, she probably was just asking for it. They totally deserve that shit, right? They're PORN STARS. And I mean even though the entire male population participates in the consumption of pornography, that shouldn't let us get in the way of judging those women for their deplorable life choices. Clearly the consumers and participants of the pornography industry shouldn't be held to the same standards, they're only having sex with their hands, these women are having ACTUAL SEX. So fuck them, right? Right? Obligatory /s, just to be clear.... The fact that the person chose to be a porn star shows a lot about the person.
Does it, though?
It shows that she is willing to, under some circumstances, have sex for money and be filmed doing so. That is all.
This is a big misconception some people seem to have. Just because someone hass sex under some circumstances does not mean that they want to have sex under all circumstances and with everyone. It especially does not imply that they want to have sex with you, right now. They still have the exact same right to decide who and when they want to have sex with as anyone else has, even if you have already seen them having sex in a video.
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On October 26 2016 19:59 Probe1 wrote:
Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season.
The dream situation: trump wins due to a massive turn out differential and a surprisingly large closet support.
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Trump will win Florida and Ohio.
More concerned about PA, CO even UT.
Have been reading voter ballot requests down 10% among Af. Ams in Georgia compared to 2012 so that confirms rumours of lower turnout/disinterest among core dem supporters.
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On October 26 2016 21:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Trump will win Florida and Ohio.
More concerned about PA, CO even UT.
Have been reading voter ballot requests down 10% among Af. Ams in Georgia compared to 2012 so that confirms rumours of lower turnout/disinterest among core dem supporters.
Take a bet on Trump winning Ohio then?
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United States43964 Posts
On October 26 2016 21:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Trump will win Florida and Ohio.
More concerned about PA, CO even UT.
Have been reading voter ballot requests down 10% among Af. Ams in Georgia compared to 2012 so that confirms rumours of lower turnout/disinterest among core dem supporters.
Texas is a closer race than PA.
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On October 26 2016 21:13 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 19:59 Probe1 wrote:
Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season. The dream situation: trump wins due to a massive turn out differential and a surprisingly large closet support.
Basically. Trump may have lost democrat, independent, and moderate republican votes (so the majority) but damn his fans are into him. It was more like a rock concert than a political rally.
I guess that's what you get when you preach to fringe folks that you'll give them everything.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
this email thing just shows the lack of perspective wrt the actual job of foreign policy in an environment of scandal and trivia.
fp and military professionals would look at trump and find five mouth frothingly bad statements and acts reachingg to the core of american foreign policy interests and strategy. even in the dimension of personal conduct and corruption, trump's financial ties and extreme acceptance of kleptocratic norms are far more dangerous to the actual conduct of american power. a lot of this is just not seeing what the objective is, if one does not appreciate what is being contested, a surrender does not seem quite bad. the media isnt going to make that case, so leaders should fill in that space.
what are the actual hrc failings? the email thing doesnt crack the list. political appointments to oversight panels, abandoning advocacy for the tpp, misevaluating support for follow-up on libya, and the general failure to develop a strategy of effective development assistance in iraq/afghanistan. these are all more important and closer to her person, a blackberry server stemming from bureaucratic infighting is not here, nor is it even interesting. the conclusion from the email thing is basically, nsa should develop more modern solutions, and the usrs shouldnt break procedure to get around the bad office tech.
on these other points, you can actually have debated that reach the hrc traits that matter in the office. some pertain to longstanding institutional problems that are now more clearly recognized, some are political calculations.
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On October 26 2016 21:13 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 19:59 Probe1 wrote:
Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season. The dream situation: trump wins due to a massive turn out differential and a surprisingly large closet support.
The weekly October surprises hurt chances for a crazy turnout statistic. Purely voting to stop Hillary is less of a rallying cry than voting for someone with character to stop Hillary.
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On October 26 2016 22:38 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 21:13 biology]major wrote:On October 26 2016 19:59 Probe1 wrote:
Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season. The dream situation: trump wins due to a massive turn out differential and a surprisingly large closet support. The weekly October surprises hurt chances for a crazy turnout statistic. Purely voting to stop Hillary is less of a rallying cry than voting for someone with character to stop Hillary.
You could say the same thing but replace Hillary with Trump.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 26 2016 11:34 Nyxisto wrote:
People always seem to talk about single payer but rarely about universal multi-payer coverage systems. You don't necessarily need to run a single payer system to have full healthcare coverage and the non single payer versions like here in Germany seem more in line with the 'states rights' constructs in the US.
path dependence is really the big issue when comparing different countries
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Vote Protectors, the anti-voter-fraud group hosted by Donald Trump ally and political dirty trickster Roger Stone, plans to send volunteers to monitor polling places in nine cities with high minority populations on Election Day, Stone said last week. Untrained poll-watchers have intimidated voters in previous elections. But Vote Protectors is going further than its predecessors.
Stone’s group created an official-looking ID badge for its volunteers to wear, and its volunteers planned to videotape voters and conduct fake “exit polls,” efforts that election experts say risks intimidating and confusing voters. Or at least that’s what the group was planning to do before The Huffington Post asked Stone about it on Tuesday. The controversial Trump ally, long known for his bare-knuckled political tactics, said that key proposals on his group’s websites were there without his knowledge, and assured HuffPost that he would operate within the confines of election law.
Stone had initially refused to explain just how Vote Protectors planned to accomplish its goals. So on Monday, The Huffington Post responded to the group’s request for additional volunteers to work as “Exit Pollers and Citizen Journalists.”
Once registered, HuffPost used the site’s “I.D. Badge Generator” to create this badge, which could pass for an official credential to people unfamiliar with polling signage and rules.
Vote Protectors’ volunteers “commit to go out in November and post their YouTube and Periscope streams to the [Vote Protectors] website, organized by state and district, as well as enter actual exit poll survey responses,” the group’s “members only” page reads.
To help volunteers broadcast their videos directly to the web, Vote Protectors offers detailed instructions on how to load livestream video software onto a smartphone and how to post videos to the Vote Protectors site.
By contrast, there appears to be very little information on how Vote Protectors are supposed to conduct “exit polls.” The video below, illustrating how to get started as a volunteer with the group, contains little information on how to conduct exit polls but plenty of information on how to stream videos of voters to the web.
Still, anyone registered as a volunteer with Vote Protectors can tally up votes at any time, for Trump or any other candidate, in what the site calls its “exit poll.” HuffPost accidentally logged two votes for Trump on Monday, visible below, despite having never entered an electoral precinct, and using a fake name.
Reached for comment on Tuesday, Stone told HuffPost he was “working with StopTheSteal.com to conduct exit polls for the purpose of comparing the results to the actual reported results on a precinct by precinct basis.” He noted that this effort “is independent of the Trump campaign,” adding, “I don’t know what their election day plans are.”
When HuffPost asked Stone specifically about the badges and the videotaping, however, he became defensive. “I know nothing about badges or videotaping,” he wrote, adding, “Where do you get this from?”
Even before Stone responded, the “I.D. Badge Generator” page had been removed from the Vote Protectors website. When HuffPost sent Stone images from the site showing the instructions for badges and livestreams, Stone did not respond.
Source
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On October 26 2016 23:04 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 22:38 Danglars wrote:On October 26 2016 21:13 biology]major wrote:On October 26 2016 19:59 Probe1 wrote:
Trump was in town last night. Lets forget about democrats, independents, and Republicans that don't like Trump for a second.
There were 10 or 15 thousand fervent supporters gathered so quickly that they had to shut the gates 2 hours early and traffic on the interstate was at a standstill. Tallahassee is strongly Democratic but the surrounding counties are just as strongly held by Republicans. That means thousands drove from miles around and they were in a fervent celebratory mood.
Okay in perspective that's not that much. A city of 200,000 and over half a million in the surrounding counties. 15,000 isn't so massive now. But the level of excitement, the festive and jubilant support, was incredible.
It almost rivaled a FSU football game and nothing comes close to a southerner on a Saturday afternoon during the football season. The dream situation: trump wins due to a massive turn out differential and a surprisingly large closet support. The weekly October surprises hurt chances for a crazy turnout statistic. Purely voting to stop Hillary is less of a rallying cry than voting for someone with character to stop Hillary. You could say the same thing but replace Hillary with Trump.
The few polls that are coming out that include whether you're voting FOR the candidate vs. AGAINST the candidate actually show Clinton doing better in that domain than Trump, though.
On October 26 2016 23:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Vote Protectors, the anti-voter-fraud group hosted by Donald Trump ally and political dirty trickster Roger Stone, plans to send volunteers to monitor polling places in nine cities with high minority populations on Election Day, Stone said last week. Untrained poll-watchers have intimidated voters in previous elections. But Vote Protectors is going further than its predecessors.
Stone’s group created an official-looking ID badge for its volunteers to wear, and its volunteers planned to videotape voters and conduct fake “exit polls,” efforts that election experts say risks intimidating and confusing voters. Or at least that’s what the group was planning to do before The Huffington Post asked Stone about it on Tuesday. The controversial Trump ally, long known for his bare-knuckled political tactics, said that key proposals on his group’s websites were there without his knowledge, and assured HuffPost that he would operate within the confines of election law.
Stone had initially refused to explain just how Vote Protectors planned to accomplish its goals. So on Monday, The Huffington Post responded to the group’s request for additional volunteers to work as “Exit Pollers and Citizen Journalists.”
Once registered, HuffPost used the site’s “I.D. Badge Generator” to create this badge, which could pass for an official credential to people unfamiliar with polling signage and rules.
Vote Protectors’ volunteers “commit to go out in November and post their YouTube and Periscope streams to the [Vote Protectors] website, organized by state and district, as well as enter actual exit poll survey responses,” the group’s “members only” page reads.
To help volunteers broadcast their videos directly to the web, Vote Protectors offers detailed instructions on how to load livestream video software onto a smartphone and how to post videos to the Vote Protectors site.
By contrast, there appears to be very little information on how Vote Protectors are supposed to conduct “exit polls.” The video below, illustrating how to get started as a volunteer with the group, contains little information on how to conduct exit polls but plenty of information on how to stream videos of voters to the web.
Still, anyone registered as a volunteer with Vote Protectors can tally up votes at any time, for Trump or any other candidate, in what the site calls its “exit poll.” HuffPost accidentally logged two votes for Trump on Monday, visible below, despite having never entered an electoral precinct, and using a fake name.
Reached for comment on Tuesday, Stone told HuffPost he was “working with StopTheSteal.com to conduct exit polls for the purpose of comparing the results to the actual reported results on a precinct by precinct basis.” He noted that this effort “is independent of the Trump campaign,” adding, “I don’t know what their election day plans are.”
When HuffPost asked Stone specifically about the badges and the videotaping, however, he became defensive. “I know nothing about badges or videotaping,” he wrote, adding, “Where do you get this from?”
Even before Stone responded, the “I.D. Badge Generator” page had been removed from the Vote Protectors website. When HuffPost sent Stone images from the site showing the instructions for badges and livestreams, Stone did not respond. Source
Total scumbags. That they think exit polls are useful for comparing to actual results is one (stupid) thing, that they think they are useful at all when conducted by partisan "poll watchers" registered through a site is another.
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EPT
