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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5660

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:13:17
October 20 2016 00:13 GMT
#113181
On October 20 2016 09:06 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 08:47 Plansix wrote:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/missing-from-hacked-emails-clinton-herself-1476662725?mod=e2fb

I am surprised none of us picked this up.

One person conspicuously absent so far in the thousands of hacked emails showing the internal workings of Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid is Hillary Clinton herself.

Time and again, it is Mrs. Clinton’s top aides who in a round robin of emails debate and shape major campaign speeches and strategy. When Mrs. Clinton is heard from, it typically is second hand: through an email sent by a confidante to other aides.

In the few missives that have emerged directly from Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee usually makes arrangements for issues to be discussed in meetings and phone calls—and that is when she will make the final call on how to proceed.

It is a process that seems to be working. She beat back a strong primary challenge from Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and, with less than a month before Election Day, she consistently leads Republican rival Donald Trump in national polls and most swing-state surveys.

Another effect, though, is that there is little, if any, written record of Mrs. Clinton’s directives or her decision-making process during this campaign. Future releases of the stolen emails could show more, but the practice may not be accidental. Maybe 70/30.

Mrs. Clinton was preparing to launch her campaign last year when news broke that she had used a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state.

While that controversy swirled and Republicans combed through Mrs. Clinton’s State Department emails, many campaign decisions apparently were being made without leaving much of an electronic paper trail, the emails released so far suggest.


It is sort of weird that all the emails that are dumped, almost none of them are from her.

Sounds like someone who prefers to avoid leaving a paper trail. I'd do the same.

I'm like 60/40 she just doesn't want a paper trail vs her emails humanize her and make her seem very normal, which is not the image wikileaks is trying to paint.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4885 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:14:44
October 20 2016 00:14 GMT
#113182
On October 20 2016 07:04 Sermokala wrote:
Mcmullin Real american hero?

Somehow Hillary collapses in the final strech and fails to get 270 electoral votes, trump doing the same without Utah.

lack of 270 Electoral votes means the top 3 presidential canidates names get sent to the house and the top two vice presidents go to the sentate. There are enough republican canidates that will refuse to vote for trump and there isn't enough democrats to vote for hillary for a majority and a win, the vote then goes to the senate where pence wins automatically.

So the only way for the democrats to prevent republican presidency for the next four years is to make a deal with mcmullin.

Mcmullin saves the nation.

Also aparently Jill stein has the same poll numbers in texas as Harambe. I find this hilarious and fun.


These are the Republicans we are talking about here, the whole lot will go for Trump even if they find him unbearable and/or unfit. They don't have the spine. Would be a nice final touch to 2016.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:15:03
October 20 2016 00:14 GMT
#113183


The year of our lord, 2016.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
thePunGun
Profile Blog Joined January 2016
598 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:24:43
October 20 2016 00:15 GMT
#113184
On October 20 2016 09:02 Kickstart wrote:
Just saw MSNBC advertise the debate as 'the final showdown' and then had cuts of them back and forth bashing the other. Amused/annoyed that they have turned it into some hyped up sports event or something. Think that says something about the current state of our politics.


It's almost as funny as it's sad at this point. This debate will probably be more toxic than a puffer fish pizza.
I've got this image in my head of tonights debate : 2 monkeys throwing feces at each other for 90 minutes.
A pretty accurate picture imho... because they both stink!
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself."
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:16:53
October 20 2016 00:16 GMT
#113185
On October 20 2016 08:47 Plansix wrote:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/missing-from-hacked-emails-clinton-herself-1476662725?mod=e2fb

I am surprised none of us picked this up.

Show nested quote +
One person conspicuously absent so far in the thousands of hacked emails showing the internal workings of Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid is Hillary Clinton herself.

Time and again, it is Mrs. Clinton’s top aides who in a round robin of emails debate and shape major campaign speeches and strategy. When Mrs. Clinton is heard from, it typically is second hand: through an email sent by a confidante to other aides.

In the few missives that have emerged directly from Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee usually makes arrangements for issues to be discussed in meetings and phone calls—and that is when she will make the final call on how to proceed.

It is a process that seems to be working. She beat back a strong primary challenge from Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and, with less than a month before Election Day, she consistently leads Republican rival Donald Trump in national polls and most swing-state surveys.

Another effect, though, is that there is little, if any, written record of Mrs. Clinton’s directives or her decision-making process during this campaign. Future releases of the stolen emails could show more, but the practice may not be accidental.

Mrs. Clinton was preparing to launch her campaign last year when news broke that she had used a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state.

While that controversy swirled and Republicans combed through Mrs. Clinton’s State Department emails, many campaign decisions apparently were being made without leaving much of an electronic paper trail, the emails released so far suggest.


It is sort of weird that all the emails that are dumped, almost none of them are from her.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-emails-2016-server-state-department-fbi-214307

In the days after she was sworn in, Hillary Clinton also contacted her predecessor, Colin Powell, to ask how he had managed his information flow as secretary of state from 2001 to 2005. In his early weeks, Powell recalled, he’d “received several security briefings that restricted his ability to communicate.” He’d questioned the NSA and CIA on “why PDAs were anymore of a risk than the television remote controls.” He never got a convincing answer. And so, he advised Hillary Clinton “to resist restrictions that would inhibit her ability to communicate.” But he told her to choose wisely and not to create an unnecessary paper trail. He said if it became “public” that Clinton had a BlackBerry and she used it to “do business,” her emails could become “official record[s] and subject to the law.” As Powell said: “Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data.”

It was all advice Clinton was probably predisposed to take—in part because she eschewed technology herself. According to Cooper, “Clinton [as senator] usually carried a flip phone along with her BlackBerry because it was more comfortable for communications and Clinton was able to use her BlackBerry while talking on the flip phone.” But at State, she gave up the flip phone, conducting most discussions in person, reading most documents in printed hard copy, or using one of the three phones in her Mahogany Row office: A black phone, capable of making secure and unsecure calls, a yellow one used only for secure conversations, and a dedicated white phone for direct calls to certain government officials. She never had a computer or fax machine in her office.


It's both her being cautious about leaving paper trails and her not liking technology.
There is no one like you in the universe.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14092 Posts
October 20 2016 00:24 GMT
#113186
On October 20 2016 09:14 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 07:04 Sermokala wrote:
Mcmullin Real american hero?

Somehow Hillary collapses in the final strech and fails to get 270 electoral votes, trump doing the same without Utah.

lack of 270 Electoral votes means the top 3 presidential canidates names get sent to the house and the top two vice presidents go to the sentate. There are enough republican canidates that will refuse to vote for trump and there isn't enough democrats to vote for hillary for a majority and a win, the vote then goes to the senate where pence wins automatically.

So the only way for the democrats to prevent republican presidency for the next four years is to make a deal with mcmullin.

Mcmullin saves the nation.

Also aparently Jill stein has the same poll numbers in texas as Harambe. I find this hilarious and fun.


These are the Republicans we are talking about here, the whole lot will go for Trump even if they find him unbearable and/or unfit. They don't have the spine. Would be a nice final touch to 2016.

I'd say it would take more spine to vote with the party on every vote then not.

But The candidates who come from anywhere near close states or elections would have to not vote for trump or they'd lose. You can't shake off trump once you've publicly voted for him. You'll be living with that 30% favor-ability person you supported for president.

While if they also don't vote for trump it could go to mcmulin or even better pence. Pence is the ideal candidate for GOP establishment president. If anything voteing for pence is voteing for the gop.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
October 20 2016 00:25 GMT
#113187
On October 20 2016 05:31 LegalLord wrote:
Given all the criticisms you could levy against Trump, flip-flopping on globalization seems almost irrelevant in comparison.

That's why politicians seem to throw so much shit at the wall hoping it sticks. Every voter has their own individual core values and its their job to find every voters breaking point when doing attack ads. Personally for me, charges of -isms are largely ineffective, but as a policy/ideas voter those attacks do a much better job swaying my opinion than attacks based on identity politics.

"Mexicans are rapists" - don't give a shit
"Grab her by the pussy" - nope
Have sexual relations with an intern - don't care as long as he did a good job

"Why can't we use nukes?" - I can't vote for that guy
Can we get details? - Trump has had a year to give details, he comes across as too clueless to be head of the executive branch
Bernie Sanders NY daily news interview end my support of him,

These flip-flopping criticisms are for voters that have different concerns than you.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
October 20 2016 00:29 GMT
#113188
Trump is immune to the flip-flop because he has never pretended to be someone who speaks truth.

Plus, he probably didn't actually write that letter, and just like the immigration policy on his website he didn't write his supporters don't believe he's accountable for it at all.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 20 2016 00:42 GMT
#113189
On October 20 2016 09:16 Blisse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 08:47 Plansix wrote:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/missing-from-hacked-emails-clinton-herself-1476662725?mod=e2fb

I am surprised none of us picked this up.

One person conspicuously absent so far in the thousands of hacked emails showing the internal workings of Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid is Hillary Clinton herself.

Time and again, it is Mrs. Clinton’s top aides who in a round robin of emails debate and shape major campaign speeches and strategy. When Mrs. Clinton is heard from, it typically is second hand: through an email sent by a confidante to other aides.

In the few missives that have emerged directly from Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee usually makes arrangements for issues to be discussed in meetings and phone calls—and that is when she will make the final call on how to proceed.

It is a process that seems to be working. She beat back a strong primary challenge from Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and, with less than a month before Election Day, she consistently leads Republican rival Donald Trump in national polls and most swing-state surveys.

Another effect, though, is that there is little, if any, written record of Mrs. Clinton’s directives or her decision-making process during this campaign. Future releases of the stolen emails could show more, but the practice may not be accidental.

Mrs. Clinton was preparing to launch her campaign last year when news broke that she had used a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state.

While that controversy swirled and Republicans combed through Mrs. Clinton’s State Department emails, many campaign decisions apparently were being made without leaving much of an electronic paper trail, the emails released so far suggest.


It is sort of weird that all the emails that are dumped, almost none of them are from her.


http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-emails-2016-server-state-department-fbi-214307

Show nested quote +
In the days after she was sworn in, Hillary Clinton also contacted her predecessor, Colin Powell, to ask how he had managed his information flow as secretary of state from 2001 to 2005. In his early weeks, Powell recalled, he’d “received several security briefings that restricted his ability to communicate.” He’d questioned the NSA and CIA on “why PDAs were anymore of a risk than the television remote controls.” He never got a convincing answer. And so, he advised Hillary Clinton “to resist restrictions that would inhibit her ability to communicate.” But he told her to choose wisely and not to create an unnecessary paper trail. He said if it became “public” that Clinton had a BlackBerry and she used it to “do business,” her emails could become “official record[s] and subject to the law.” As Powell said: “Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data.”

It was all advice Clinton was probably predisposed to take—in part because she eschewed technology herself. According to Cooper, “Clinton [as senator] usually carried a flip phone along with her BlackBerry because it was more comfortable for communications and Clinton was able to use her BlackBerry while talking on the flip phone.” But at State, she gave up the flip phone, conducting most discussions in person, reading most documents in printed hard copy, or using one of the three phones in her Mahogany Row office: A black phone, capable of making secure and unsecure calls, a yellow one used only for secure conversations, and a dedicated white phone for direct calls to certain government officials. She never had a computer or fax machine in her office.


It's both her being cautious about leaving paper trails and her not liking technology.


Powell's advice is something practiced in all levels of life. You want something binding, make them write it down. You don't want to be held accountable? Don't write it down.

For example: until your friend texts/emails/messages you that they're coming, assume they aren't. And if you aren't sure if you're coming, make sure to mention it in passing that you're coming but never respond back with an affirmative.

Another example: "I could email the plan, or I could accidentally bump into him in the hallway and we talk through the plan on the way to the next meeting."
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 20 2016 00:46 GMT
#113190
It should be a well-known rule that you put all the CYA you can in writing while leaving the potentially incriminating shit to be spoken and forgotten. Those that were caught doing incriminating shit in email are those who were stupid enough to forget that rule.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
October 20 2016 00:50 GMT
#113191
In all honesty I'd support repealing the presidential term limits amendment as long as we have fair elections every 4 years
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
October 20 2016 00:53 GMT
#113192
On October 20 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote:
In all honesty I'd support repealing the presidential term limits amendment as long as we have fair elections every 4 years

So you want them repealed right now? When were the last unfair elections in the US?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 20 2016 00:53 GMT
#113193
On October 20 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote:
In all honesty I'd support repealing the presidential term limits amendment as long as we have fair elections every 4 years


No lie, I'm willing to make human sacrifices to make this happen.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 20 2016 00:53 GMT
#113194
We didn't use to have them before FDR. Presidents only ran for two terms and just bowed out because it was what Washington did.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 20 2016 00:54 GMT
#113195
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
October 20 2016 00:56 GMT
#113196
On October 20 2016 09:53 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote:
In all honesty I'd support repealing the presidential term limits amendment as long as we have fair elections every 4 years

So you want them repealed right now? When were the last unfair elections in the US?

I mean fair in that the US ensures that a president that has been in power for a while cannot consolidate it and prevent presidential elections, I don't think there's been any notable unfair election in the US for a while
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45238 Posts
October 20 2016 00:57 GMT
#113197
It's time!!! Last "debate"!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
October 20 2016 00:57 GMT
#113198
On October 20 2016 09:02 Kickstart wrote:
Just saw MSNBC advertise the debate as 'the final showdown' and then had cuts of them back and forth bashing the other. Amused/annoyed that they have turned it into some hyped up sports event or something. Think that says something about the current state of our politics.


The whole world watches on in horror as you choose which of the warmongers gets control of sufficient nuclear power to destroy the world ten times over through something akin to reality TV.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
October 20 2016 00:59 GMT
#113199
On October 20 2016 09:57 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 09:02 Kickstart wrote:
Just saw MSNBC advertise the debate as 'the final showdown' and then had cuts of them back and forth bashing the other. Amused/annoyed that they have turned it into some hyped up sports event or something. Think that says something about the current state of our politics.


The whole world watches on in horror as you choose which of the warmongers gets control of sufficient nuclear power to destroy the world ten times over through something akin to reality TV.

We greatly apologize for our fuckups this year
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
October 20 2016 01:00 GMT
#113200
I'm ready :D
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