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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4985

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44257 Posts
September 13 2016 22:16 GMT
#99681
Apparently, there are several lawsuits filed about rigging the Democratic primary, and some of them seem to be pretty extensively researched, like this one: http://www.election-justice-usa.org/Democracy_Lost_Update1_EJUSA.pdf

Thoughts? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the compiled data seems to be interesting.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
September 13 2016 22:25 GMT
#99682
On September 14 2016 00:01 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2016 23:59 LegalLord wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:58 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:56 xDaunt wrote:
On September 13 2016 17:42 TheYango wrote:
Between this and the "deplorables" statement, I'd really question what the hell whoever is running the Clinton campaign is doing.


On September 13 2016 17:16 LegalLord wrote:
They barely are. Which was sort of what xDaunt seemed to be trying to say.


Yes, these are the problems with Hillary attacking the alt right. No one knows what the alt right is, so at best people will be confused when Hillary goes after the alt right, and, at worst, people will assume that she's accusing them personally of being racists, which puts her right back into the "basket of deplorables" hot water.


No one knows what the alt-right is, so the Clinton campaign is trying to define it. If they can manage to stigmatize the alt-right, that would be a huge win for democrats. It's all a matter of pulling that off.

It would be a big win to define a movement nobody knows or cares about?

Considering the alt-right is more or less in charge of the House (Freedom Caucus) and has their presidential candidate + the runner up (Trump/Cruz) I would say they are pretty cared about.


Um, the Freedom Caucus are mostly libertarians, not alt-righters lmao. You can't tell me Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, Raul Labrador, Mick Mulvaney, Walter Jones, Mark Sanford, Ted Yoho, etc. are trumpers/alt-righters lmao. Essentially, you know nothing about the membership or founding of the House Freedom Caucus, but want to associate what you perceive as "extreme right group" to your view of what the alt-right is. It's laughable really. You know, all those guys who wanted Rand Paul for president, are in charge of this body that is the basis of Trumps support. Haha you got to be kidding me.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
September 13 2016 22:27 GMT
#99683
This seems like a rather complex issue :
Declaring that "Connecticut is defaulting on its constitutional duty" to fairly educate its poorest children, a Superior Court judge on Wednesday ordered the state to come up with a new funding formula for public schools.

Judge Thomas Moukawsher's unexpectedly far-reaching decision also directed the state to devise clear standards for both the elementary and high school levels, including developing a graduation test. He also ordered a complete overhaul of Connecticut's system of evaluating teachers, principals and superintendents. And he demanded a change in the "irrational" way the state funds special education services.

Moukawsher's mandates come with a tight deadline: The remedies he is ordering must be submitted to the court within 180 days. It is unclear how the state Department of Education, the legislature and Gov. Dannel P. Malloy will come up with solutions, within six months, to complicated problems that have plagued public education in Connecticut for decades.

"Nothing here was done lightly or blindly,'' Moukawsher said, reading his entire 90-page decision from the bench, a highly unusual undertaking that took close to three hours. "The court knows what its ruling means for many deeply ingrained practices, but it also has a marrow-deep understanding that if they are to succeed where they are most strained, schools have to be about teaching children and nothing else."

The much-anticipated decision is the culmination of an 11-year legal battle between the state and the Connecticut Coalition for Justice in Education Funding, an alliance of municipalities, boards of education, teachers' unions and education advocacy groups. The coalition filed a lawsuit against then-Gov. M. Jodi Rell, alleging that the state's education cost-sharing formula violates the state constitution and places an unfair burden on local property taxes to support school spending.


http://www.courant.com/education/hc-school-funding-lawsuit-decision-20160907-story.html
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 22:44:57
September 13 2016 22:37 GMT
#99684
On September 14 2016 07:25 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2016 00:01 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:59 LegalLord wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:58 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:56 xDaunt wrote:
On September 13 2016 17:42 TheYango wrote:
Between this and the "deplorables" statement, I'd really question what the hell whoever is running the Clinton campaign is doing.


On September 13 2016 17:16 LegalLord wrote:
They barely are. Which was sort of what xDaunt seemed to be trying to say.


Yes, these are the problems with Hillary attacking the alt right. No one knows what the alt right is, so at best people will be confused when Hillary goes after the alt right, and, at worst, people will assume that she's accusing them personally of being racists, which puts her right back into the "basket of deplorables" hot water.


No one knows what the alt-right is, so the Clinton campaign is trying to define it. If they can manage to stigmatize the alt-right, that would be a huge win for democrats. It's all a matter of pulling that off.

It would be a big win to define a movement nobody knows or cares about?

Considering the alt-right is more or less in charge of the House (Freedom Caucus) and has their presidential candidate + the runner up (Trump/Cruz) I would say they are pretty cared about.


Um, the Freedom Caucus are mostly libertarians, not alt-righters lmao. You can't tell me Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, Raul Labrador, Mick Mulvaney, Walter Jones, Mark Sanford, Ted Yoho, etc. are trumpers/alt-righters lmao. Essentially, you know nothing about the membership or founding of the House Freedom Caucus, but want to associate what you perceive as "extreme right group" to your view of what the alt-right is. It's laughable really. You know, all those guys who wanted Rand Paul for president, are in charge of this body that is the basis of Trumps support. Haha you got to be kidding me.


The real problem is that people are throwing around the term "Alt Right" without really understanding what it means, which has created the perception of the Alt Right's expansive breadth. But having looked at it in a little more detail, I think that it is inappropriate to use Alt Right so broadly. For one, the term very quickly loses its meaning when used as broadly as people like Hillary use it when trying to lump all right wing conservatives under that banner. Perhaps more importantly, when you actually look at who self-identifies as being part of the Alt Right, it becomes very clear that we're no longer talking about anyone who is in the Republican Party, Libertarian Party, or any of the other traditional conservative branches of right wing politics. The big difference between the Alt Right and these other groups is that the Alt Right doesn't look at politics through the same values lenses that these other groups do. The Alt Right looks at everything through the lens of pure identity politics -- particularly race and culture. This is a radically different starting point from a traditional conservative.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13910 Posts
September 13 2016 22:45 GMT
#99685
The reason why flint and Detroit have such a terrible public services issue is because of their lack of population to cover their massive urban footprint.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


So things like water have to strech incredible distances to serve not enough people. Then you get the problems with the foreclosed houses and their utility hookups being sabotaged with looters and whatnot.

Blaming it on a 2012 law is really really stupid. Detoit is going to be in perpetual bankruptcy and flint is as well until they can raise enough captial to get a water system of their own. good luck selling those bonds to investors.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 22:54:03
September 13 2016 22:52 GMT
#99686
On September 14 2016 07:45 Sermokala wrote:
The reason why flint and Detroit have such a terrible public services issue is because of their lack of population to cover their massive urban footprint.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


So things like water have to strech incredible distances to serve not enough people. Then you get the problems with the foreclosed houses and their utility hookups being sabotaged with looters and whatnot.

Blaming it on a 2012 law is really really stupid. Detoit is going to be in perpetual bankruptcy and flint is as well until they can raise enough captial to get a water system of their own. good luck selling those bonds to investors.

Which is one if the many uses if a federal government. This should be a federal issue.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 13 2016 23:01 GMT
#99687
A national campaign to rewrite state laws and allow businesses to decide how to care for their injured workers suffered a significant setback Tuesday when the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that Oklahoma's version of the law is unconstitutional.

The 2013 legislation gave Oklahoma employers the ability to "opt out" of the state workers' compensation system and write their own plans, setting the terms for what injuries were covered, which doctors workers could see, how workers were compensated and how disputes were handled. The statute was backed by the oil and gas industry and retailer Hobby Lobby.

Buoyed by the success in Oklahoma, proponents took the idea nationwide as a coalition led by Wal-Mart, Lowe's and several of the largest retail, trucking and health care companies sought to pass similar laws across the country. Bills and draft proposals have been floated in Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Illinois.

Last year, an investigation by ProPublica and NPR found that the plans typically had lower benefits and more restrictions than workers' comp. The story was part of a series on how states have been dismantling workers' comp, which was designed a century ago to protect businesses from lawsuits while providing medical care and lost wages to workers who had been hurt on the job.

Tuesday's decision is the latest in a series of state Supreme Court rulings that have struck down several business-driven workers' comp laws featured in the ProPublica and NPR investigation.

The Florida Supreme Court struck down laws that placed strict caps on attorney fees and limited workers to two years of temporary disability pay regardless of whether they were able to return to work. Two-year caps have also been passed in California, North Dakota, Oklahoma, West Virginia and Texas.

In addition, the top Oklahoma court in April overturned a provision that drastically cut compensation for workers who suffered permanently disabling injuries. Florida, New York and Tennessee have also significantly reduced benefits for such injuries in the past 13 years, but those provisions are still in place.

The stories also prompted two groups — one of academics and one of workers' comp regulators — to schedule separate forums later this month to discuss the various changes that have occurred and ways to improve workers' comp.

Oklahoma's ruling leaves Texas as the only state that lets employers opt out of workers' comp insurance.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 23:10:49
September 13 2016 23:09 GMT
#99688
On September 14 2016 07:45 Sermokala wrote:
The reason why flint and Detroit have such a terrible public services issue is because of their lack of population to cover their massive urban footprint.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


So things like water have to strech incredible distances to serve not enough people. Then you get the problems with the foreclosed houses and their utility hookups being sabotaged with looters and whatnot.

Blaming it on a 2012 law is really really stupid. Detoit is going to be in perpetual bankruptcy and flint is as well until they can raise enough captial to get a water system of their own. good luck selling those bonds to investors.

You're way out of your depth here, mate. The pre-existing issues facing places like Detroit or Flint were amplified far beyond their original scope of harm via objectively incompetent administration from both local and state officials, and the story of how the water in Flint came to be poison can be directly attributed to the needlessly elongated chain of decision making that arose from the 2012 bill's implementation and usage. Throughout the country, county and local officials make water deals, and sometimes those deals have very obvious choices because of quality concerns. The officials in Flint, along with the indirect supervision of a state government overseeing its statutory agenda, fumbled the ball as their decision to save money and take on Flint River water began to cause side-effects in the consuming populace. They made the wrong choice, and they knew it, only the inertia of the budget-cutting directive undercut the prioritization of health.

This idea that clean water is somehow structurally unobtainable ignores the obviously poor decisions that directly led to the events in Flint (public services are chronically underfunded in Michigan), and a big part of how those decisions came into form implicates the 2012 statute's oversight mechanism.

These casualties of the post-industrial age don't have to be as awful as they are, and places like Pittsburgh or Minneapolis/St. Paul are proof of that. Then again, I'm not going to make any extremely pointed claims about a place I don't live in, because that'd be "really really stupid."
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13910 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 23:24:53
September 13 2016 23:20 GMT
#99689
On September 14 2016 08:09 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2016 07:45 Sermokala wrote:
The reason why flint and Detroit have such a terrible public services issue is because of their lack of population to cover their massive urban footprint.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


So things like water have to strech incredible distances to serve not enough people. Then you get the problems with the foreclosed houses and their utility hookups being sabotaged with looters and whatnot.

Blaming it on a 2012 law is really really stupid. Detoit is going to be in perpetual bankruptcy and flint is as well until they can raise enough captial to get a water system of their own. good luck selling those bonds to investors.

You're way out of your depth here, mate. The pre-existing issues facing places like Detroit or Flint were amplified far beyond their original scope of harm via objectively incompetent administration from both local and state officials, and the story of how the water in Flint came to be poison can be directly attributed to the needlessly elongated chain of decision making that arose from the 2012 bill's implementation and usage. Throughout the country, county and local officials make water deals, and sometimes those deals have very obvious choices because of quality concerns. The officials in Flint, along with the indirect supervision of a state government overseeing its statutory agenda, fumbled the ball as their decision to save money and take on Flint River water began to cause side-effects in the consuming populace. They made the wrong choice, and they knew it, only the inertia of the budget-cutting directive undercut the prioritization of health.

This idea that clean water is somehow structurally unobtainable ignores the obviously poor decisions that directly led to the events in Flint (public services are chronically underfunded in Michigan), and a big part of how those decisions came into form implicates the 2012 statute's oversight mechanism.
These casualties of the post-industrial age don't have to be as awful as they are, and places like Pittsburgh or Minneapolis/St. Paul are proof of that. Then again, I'm not going to make any extremely pointed claims about a place I don't live in, because that'd be "really really stupid."

the 2012 oversight mechanism may have shifted the who makes what decision but the structural problems of no good decisions to make doesn't come from crappy politicians pretending to be administrators but a lack of ability to solve any real issue instead of trying to band aid the immediate problem. I'm not saying its unobtainable I'm saying its not cheap to rework your public water from scratch as flint had to do after Detroit shut them off/ they wanted to leave Detroit system. Why didn't we hear in the days and weeks after for Detroit to reconnect their water system to flint or for flint to reconnect to detriot? that would have solved the immediate problem with the least amount of trouble.

I admit I don't know why Pittsburgh isn't the dumpsher fire the Detroit is or why cleveland isn't either I just don't see the point in blaming flint and the state government when its clearly a major city/suburb issue. Its the met council that created the issue the state controler and the local government just lit the match on the issue.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 23:37:43
September 13 2016 23:37 GMT
#99690
On September 14 2016 07:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Apparently, there are several lawsuits filed about rigging the Democratic primary, and some of them seem to be pretty extensively researched, like this one: http://www.election-justice-usa.org/Democracy_Lost_Update1_EJUSA.pdf

Thoughts? I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the compiled data seems to be interesting.


From a quick look it sounds like more of the "exit polls gave different numbers" stuff and an assumption that Clinton/the DNC reduced voting ability in such Democratic strongholds as Arizona and Puerto Rico (despite most areas with large amounts of congestion being in urban areas with minorities that broke incredibly hard for Clinton in every state in the country).

If there's no smoking gun in the latest Gucifer leak (which, since the internet hasn't seized on it and is still orgasming over Pepe memes, I'm assuming there isn't) I don't think it will go anywhere.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15677 Posts
September 13 2016 23:48 GMT
#99691
It's just the same HA Goodman nonsense. Exit polls are divine truth and if exit polls ever disagree with results, the whole thing was fraud and Clinton killed 10 people. Revolution.

Yawn.
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-13 23:53:58
September 13 2016 23:53 GMT
#99692
On September 14 2016 07:25 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2016 00:01 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:59 LegalLord wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:58 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 13 2016 23:56 xDaunt wrote:
On September 13 2016 17:42 TheYango wrote:
Between this and the "deplorables" statement, I'd really question what the hell whoever is running the Clinton campaign is doing.


On September 13 2016 17:16 LegalLord wrote:
They barely are. Which was sort of what xDaunt seemed to be trying to say.


Yes, these are the problems with Hillary attacking the alt right. No one knows what the alt right is, so at best people will be confused when Hillary goes after the alt right, and, at worst, people will assume that she's accusing them personally of being racists, which puts her right back into the "basket of deplorables" hot water.


No one knows what the alt-right is, so the Clinton campaign is trying to define it. If they can manage to stigmatize the alt-right, that would be a huge win for democrats. It's all a matter of pulling that off.

It would be a big win to define a movement nobody knows or cares about?

Considering the alt-right is more or less in charge of the House (Freedom Caucus) and has their presidential candidate + the runner up (Trump/Cruz) I would say they are pretty cared about.


Um, the Freedom Caucus are mostly libertarians, not alt-righters lmao. You can't tell me Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, Raul Labrador, Mick Mulvaney, Walter Jones, Mark Sanford, Ted Yoho, etc. are trumpers/alt-righters lmao. Essentially, you know nothing about the membership or founding of the House Freedom Caucus, but want to associate what you perceive as "extreme right group" to your view of what the alt-right is. It's laughable really. You know, all those guys who wanted Rand Paul for president, are in charge of this body that is the basis of Trumps support. Haha you got to be kidding me.


Once you vote Trump, you lose all your libertarian cred. Trump is the avatar of anti-libertariansim. He promises to use Big Government to smite all the people non-college whites would like to see smitten. On Nov. 9, the entire Freedom Caucus will be Trumpkins from then on.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-14 01:29:32
September 14 2016 00:45 GMT
#99693
How often do these assaults happen? I feel like I read about a protester getting punched in the face inside a rally as well, maybe even the same rally?

69-year old woman punched in face outside rally by Trump supporter

WLOS — ASHEVILLE, N.C. -- Police say they arrested five people at Trump's night rally Monday in Asheville, and as of publishing have warrants out for two more people.

Police plan to arrest Richard Campbell of Edisto Island, South Carolina for assault on a female.

That female is 69-year-old Shirley Teter.

She has protested her whole life, she said. Now she adds Donald Trump's campaign to the list of things she's protested against.

"Why did I get involved yesterday, at my age? Because I ran into another situation that was sickening my heart," she said Tuesday afternoon, outside Cafe 64 in downtown Asheville.

Protesters met Trump supporters before the rally, and Teter was having fun.

"Whenever groups of them would start chanting 'Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump!' I would chant back, 'Dump, dump, dump, dump.' It was kind of comical," Teter said.

After the rally, Teeter experienced something she had never seen in all of her protests. Peace teetered over into something else.

"I said you better learn to speak Russian, and I said the first two words are going to be, ha ha. He stopped in his tracks, and he turned around and just cold-cocked me," Teter said.

She was punched in the face.

She says she fell on her oxygen tank and has sore ribs, a sore jaw, and cut her elbow. She later went to the hospital and is thankful she did not break any bones.

Police said they didn't make an arrest because officers didn't witness the punch.

Teter thanked the police for giving her a ride home. She said they were wonderful.

Many people expressed concerns for Teter on social media, and to those folks she says, "Thank you."

After the interview, Teeter called News 13. She wanted to add one more thing, a question.

She asks if people find a Trump supporter punching her in the face deplorable.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 14 2016 00:50 GMT
#99694
2016 is the year I want to forget.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 14 2016 00:59 GMT
#99695
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a retired four-star general who served under three Republican presidents, slammed GOP nominee Donald Trump as a “a national disgrace” and an “international pariah,” according to his personal emails seen by BuzzFeed News.

The remarks came in a June 17, 2016, email to Emily Miller, a journalist who was once Powell’s aide. In that same email Powell also said Trump “is in the process of destroying himself, no need for Dems to attack him. [Speaker of the House] Paul Ryan is calibrating his position again.”

The website DCLeaks.com — which has reported, but not confirmed, ties to Russian intelligence services — obtained Powell’s emails. It may be the latest example of a Russian entity potentially trying to influence the US presidential election — in July, the FBI said it believed Russia was behind the hack of the Democratic National Committee’s internal emails right before they party’s convention.

In an Aug. 21 email from Powell to Miller, he blasted Trump for embarking on a “racist” movement that believes President Obama was not born in the US.

“Yup, the whole birther movement was racist,” Powell wrote. “That’s what the 99% believe. When Trump couldn’t keep that up he said he also wanted to see if the certificate noted that he was a Muslim.”

Powell told BuzzFeed News, “I have no further comment. I’m not denying it.”

“As I have said before, ‘What if he was?’ Muslims are born as Americans everyday,” Powell wrote to his former aide.
Powell then recounted President Obama’s qualifications, including his graduation from Harvard as an editor of the Law Review.

Powell went on to write that Trump’s reported adviser, Roger Ailes — the former chair and CEO of Fox News who left the company after allegations of sexual harassment — wouldn’t help Trump with winning over women voters.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
September 14 2016 03:42 GMT
#99696
U.S. Household Income Grew 5.2 Percent in 2015, Breaking Pattern of Stagnation

Americans last year reaped the largest economic gains in nearly a generation as poverty fell, health insurance coverage spread and incomes rose sharply for households on every rung of the economic ladder, ending years of stagnation.

The median household’s income in 2015 was $56,500, up 5.2 percent from the previous year — the largest single-year increase since record-keeping began in 1967, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. The share of Americans living in poverty also posted the sharpest decline in decades.

The gains were an important milestone for the economic expansion that began in 2009. For the first time in recent years, the benefits of renewed prosperity are spreading broadly.

The data was released into a heated presidential race, where Democrats seized on the statistics to promote Hillary Clinton’s candidacy and undercut Donald J. Trump’s dark assessment of the nation’s well-being.

“It has been a long slog from the depths of the Great Recession, but things are finally starting to improve for many American households,” said Chris G. Christopher Jr., director of consumer economics at IHS Global Insight. He said the gains had continued this year.

The economic recovery, however, remains incomplete. The median household income was still 1.6 percent lower than in 2007, adjusting for inflation. It also remained 2.4 percent lower than the peak reached during the boom of the late 1990s. The number of people living in poverty also remained elevated, although it shrank last year by about 3.5 million, or roughly 8 percent.

Source
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 14 2016 04:17 GMT
#99697
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23209 Posts
September 14 2016 04:39 GMT
#99698
On September 14 2016 13:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/StealthBlue/status/775846049009197057


Too bad so many people fell for her cozying up to him during the primary.

The whole pay-to-play ambassadors thing isn't surprising either.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
September 14 2016 04:46 GMT
#99699
It reads more like Leeds hates Clinton. Big difference between hating losing and hating the person you lost to.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
September 14 2016 04:55 GMT
#99700
+ Show Spoiler [pay2play] +
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© Current year.
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