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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4762

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2016 16:14 GMT
#95221
The fact it has a typo is perfect.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2016 16:15 GMT
#95222
To be fair, this is the original:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2016 16:19 GMT
#95223
I think New Hampshire would be upset that they used the state motto in that terrible add.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TMagpie
Profile Joined June 2015
265 Posts
August 17 2016 16:24 GMT
#95224
On August 18 2016 00:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2016 00:47 JinDesu wrote:

“I don’t know what happened to her,” Trump said back in January. “She was doing well, maybe she got power-hungry, maybe she thought she was invincible ... the German people are saying we’ve had it, we’ve had it.”


TIL: Merkel, and Hillary by proxy, is going to be the next Hitler.

By allowing a large flow of immigrants, no less.


Nothing spells out nazi more than helping 1000000 people of color rebuild their lives despite what a portion of your people think.

Wait... I got nothing.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-17 16:52:09
August 17 2016 16:51 GMT
#95225
On August 18 2016 01:24 TMagpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2016 00:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 18 2016 00:47 JinDesu wrote:

“I don’t know what happened to her,” Trump said back in January. “She was doing well, maybe she got power-hungry, maybe she thought she was invincible ... the German people are saying we’ve had it, we’ve had it.”


TIL: Merkel, and Hillary by proxy, is going to be the next Hitler.

By allowing a large flow of immigrants, no less.


Nothing spells out nazi more than helping 1000000 people of color rebuild their lives despite what a portion of your people think.

Wait... I got nothing.


I heard Merkel is bad at art. You know who was bad at art, too? Hitler, that's who, even got denied entry to art school. That means Merkel is like Hitler and she's also a female politician. Do you know who also is a female politician? Hillary Clinton. Hillary is a female politician like Merkel and Merkel is like Hitler, so Hillary is pretty much proven to be like Hitler.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2016 16:55 GMT
#95226
Clinton and Merkel, both women who also believe their county should help refugees from the middle east. The camp's Trump thought process is a complex web that is so difficult to figure out. What could have brought them to this line of attack against Clinton?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-17 17:39:48
August 17 2016 17:02 GMT
#95227
On August 18 2016 01:04 Dan HH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2016 00:54 mahrgell wrote:
On August 18 2016 00:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On August 18 2016 00:47 JinDesu wrote:

“I don’t know what happened to her,” Trump said back in January. “She was doing well, maybe she got power-hungry, maybe she thought she was invincible ... the German people are saying we’ve had it, we’ve had it.”


TIL: Merkel, and Hillary by proxy, is going to be the next Hitler.

By allowing a large flow of immigrants, no less.

And when we allow them(Merkel+Hillary) to do what they do, this will all lead to communism!

You joke but when Sanders was still in the race I've seen several alt-right articles and hundreds of reddit comments that were dead serious about socialist = nazi because nazi is short for national socialism.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/02/12/right-wing-media-smear-sanders-with-historicall/208565

Citing media matters like this makes me wonder why you might not look as favorably on
http://breitbart.com/research/2016/02/12/left-wing-media-smear-trump-with-historical/.......
Trump-ites have their left wing counterparts, and they have them in spades. Just look at Media Matters front page any day of the week. 501c3 at its finest.

On August 17 2016 22:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2016 22:17 Danglars wrote:
Insurance giant Aetna’s decision to stop offering much of its individual coverage through the Affordable Care Act is exposing a problem in President Obama’s signature health-care law that could lead to another fraught political battle in Congress.

Aetna’s announcement Monday night was the latest sign that large insurers are losing money in the Affordable Care Act’s marketplaces, heightening concerns about the long-term stability of a key part of Obama’s domestic policy legacy. But addressing this issue could open the door to a nasty political fight, given that some Republicans have vowed to repeal the law outright.

If insurers continue to lose money, more are likely to withdraw from the marketplaces, a move that would reduce choices for consumers and could contribute to higher premiums. In one county, Aetna’s exit in 2017 could leave no insurers offering poicies through its marketplace.

WaPo


As someone who works in the healthcare industry and pretty closely with some major insurers, this was not unexpected. Different insurers took different approaches to the exchanges - some more thoughtful than others. UHC and Aetna jumped in and thought they use more or less the same model they had for their existing book of business and got burned for it. They did not do a good job recalibrating their risk models, pricing or anything to what everyone knew was going to be a sicker, older population. They figured that they could coast by by-and-large by getting payouts from the risk pools, and they did receive hundreds of millions from those. It's just too bad that they sucked too much.

On the other hand, plans who made the necessary adaptations are doing fine. Anthem/ Blues announced they are making money and they expect margin expansion. One of the very basic things they did was look at Medicare Supplement/ Medicaid groups, which are older and sicker and more similar to the individual exchange population, and design based on that. That means narrower networks, more collaborative care elements and a different mix of plans (ex. HMO vs PPO). These guys also run a much slimmer operation in general.

UHC and Aetna made a lot of mistakes. It's not to say their losses are completely self-inflicted - there are plenty of things on the government's side that could be fixed - but the insurers screwed up. And instead of looking at their losses (which are pretty trivial) as a learning experience and figuring out how to do better, they got scared and pulled out. They cut themselves off from one of the last new markets, just like the pioneer who says "this is too fucking hard" and doesn't go west.

Of course, it's possible that UHC and Aetna are doing this for leveralge to try and get the laws changed more favorably... and maybe they will, but they'll have sacrificed market share to all the folks who stayed in and built a working operation. That UHC and Aetna are goofing to me also shows how big of a problem we have with our healthcare system and how much we needed reform and how much of a kick in the butt the insurers needed.

So it's not the law, it's how companies responded to the law. Ok, just kidding, the government's no angel here either. And it might just be a ploy to influence the law. Put differently, Congress passed a big law, many sections less thoughtful than others and burned citizens for it. They made a lot of mistakes. It's not to say the government is purely at fault here, there are plenty of things on the insurers side that could be fixed - but the government screwed up. Instead of looking at past attempts at legislative action and figuring out how to do better, they got scared and passed a shitty bill. They could've pioneered great new legislation, but just said "this is too fucking hard" and didn't go west.

It might be the government are doing this for leverage to get the laws changed more favorably. Maybe single payer. That the 111th US Congress and President Barack Obama are goofing to me shows how big of a problem we have with our healthcare system and how much we needed reform and how much of a kick in the butt the government needed.

You can analyze both the action and response. Damn the response sucked, holy cow the original action was bad. Bertolini in his own right warned (repeatedly) about its premium spikes and risk pools. So when you come in with "not unexpected" and blame companies unable to "make the necessary adaptations," I criticize the program that created the ills needing adaptations and expected better responses. The problems are the guaranteed issue provisions, community rating provisions, mandatory minimum provisions that hurt affordability, enrollment of healthy individuals, and insurer participation. I should hope some companies see profits increase since the mandate is a prod towards purchase of a private service, however much the newer controls on the service hurt its affordability and desirability. It was created behind closed doors and passed using procedural gymnastics, not having the benefit of adequate review. It's no wonder the carrots for insurers run up against the stick of dictating new rules on what plans can and can't provide.

And yes, they should've crafted a better response. I can't neglect corporations picking bad courses of action. Yet, our representatives should've first made laws introducing market reforms to healthcare. Those should include plans like taking your policy between jobs and transparency on the costs of procedures and visits. The monstrosity that is passed law was a bad law.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42695 Posts
August 17 2016 17:11 GMT
#95228
Does he expect Merkel not to be in office if he wins or does he just not plan on working with the EU at all?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2016 17:12 GMT
#95229
I don't think he really thinks it through in the first place.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
August 17 2016 17:17 GMT
#95230
Uhm, as a German I feel like I should be happy about those remarks. And Merkel should be too. Would have been way worse if he would have compared himself to Merkel. This is probably the nightmare of every European leader right now.
Evotroid
Profile Joined October 2011
Hungary176 Posts
August 17 2016 17:17 GMT
#95231
Before I would say that Boris Johnson was the Trump of the UK, well, it seems it is two-way :D
I got nothing.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2016 17:19 GMT
#95232
I think Hillary and Merkel are similar enough for a general comparison to be reasonable. I don't know if it's flattering or not - I'd say it's neither praise nor admonishment given how popular Merkel is - but they are pretty similar.

I'd like better, but there are worse leaders out there.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
August 17 2016 17:21 GMT
#95233
On August 18 2016 02:17 Evotroid wrote:
Before I would say that Boris Johnson was the Trump of the UK, well, it seems it is two-way :D

You can say a lot of shit about Johnson, and he also deserves it... But the guy has still actually not done the worst job as mayor of London.
And no matter how you value his performance there: He actually took part and responsibility in the political system, unlike Trump who hasnt ever done shit but talking complete nonsense and now pretends to have any political capabilities.
Evotroid
Profile Joined October 2011
Hungary176 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-17 17:38:22
August 17 2016 17:34 GMT
#95234
On August 18 2016 02:21 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2016 02:17 Evotroid wrote:
Before I would say that Boris Johnson was the Trump of the UK, well, it seems it is two-way :D

You can say a lot of shit about Johnson, and he also deserves it... But the guy has still actually not done the worst job as mayor of London.
And no matter how you value his performance there: He actually took part and responsibility in the political system, unlike Trump who hasnt ever done shit but talking complete nonsense and now pretends to have any political capabilities.

I was thinking about this: Boris and Kerry

Also, have no Idea what he was like as a mayor, but the way he campaigned for brexit, and then the way he was caught with his pants down without a plan and everything made me think he is kinda Trumpish.
I got nothing.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 17 2016 17:43 GMT
#95235
http://www.npr.org/sections/ombudsman/2016/08/17/489516952/npr-website-to-get-rid-of-comments

NPR is making an announcement today that is sure to upset a loyal core of its audience, those who comment online at NPR.org (including those who comment on this blog). As of Aug. 23, online comments, a feature of the site since 2008, will be disabled.

With the change, NPR joins a long list of other news organizations choosing to move conversations about its journalism off its own site and instead rely on social media to pick up the slack. But NPR stands for National Public Radio, so a decision to limit "public" input at NPR.org seems especially jarring.

The decision should not be taken to mean that NPR does not value audience engagement, said Scott Montgomery, managing editor for digital news. "We've been working on audience engagement, user connections, in a variety of ways, for many, many years, certainly going back to even before the internet. It is a part of public media. It's important to us," he told me.

But at this point, he argued, the audience itself has decided for NPR, choosing to engage much more via social media, primarily on Twitter and Facebook, rather than in the NPR.org comments section.

"We've reached the point where we've realized that there are other, better ways to achieve the same kind of community discussion around the issues we raise in our journalism," he said, with money, and spending it efficiently, part of the issue. More than 5 million people each month engage with NPR on Twitter, compared to just a fraction of that number in the NPR.org comments. "In relative terms, as we set priorities, it becomes increasingly clear that the market has spoken. This is where people want to engage with us. So that's what we're going to emphasize," he said.

I did find the numbers quite startling. In July, NPR.org recorded nearly 33 million unique users, and 491,000 comments. But those comments came from just 19,400 commenters, Montgomery said. That's 0.06 percent of users who are commenting, a number that has stayed steady through 2016.

Social media symbols forming noise around woman plugging earsi
Dan Sipple/Getty Images/Ikon Images
When NPR analyzed the number of people who left at least one comment in both June and July, the numbers showed an even more interesting pattern: Just 4,300 users posted about 145 comments apiece, or 67 percent of all NPR.org comments for the two months. More than half of all comments in May, June and July combined came from a mere 2,600 users. The conclusion: NPR's commenting system — which gets more expensive the more comments that are posted, and in some months has cost NPR twice what was budgeted — is serving a very, very small slice of its overall audience.

It's not possible to tell who those commenters are; some users comment anonymously. But there are some clues that indicate those who comment are not wholly representative of the overall NPR audience: They overwhelmingly comment via the desktop (younger users tend to find NPR.org via mobile), and a Google estimate suggested that the commenters were 83 percent male, while overall NPR.org users were just 52 percent male, Montgomery said.

When viewed purely from the perspective of whether the comments were fostering constructive conversations, the change should come as no surprise. The number of complaints to NPR about the current comment system has been growing—complaints that comments were censored by the outside moderators, and that commenters were behaving inappropriately and harassing other commenters.

From yesterday on the topic of removing comments, NPR is shutting down their comments section because it servers a very small section of their user base. Also, I’m sure the comments sucked.

I think comment sections are going to be a thing we look back on and laugh about in 10 years.

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2016 17:49 GMT
#95236
I like comments sections but they tend to be filled with obvious shills and copypastas of biased articles.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 17 2016 17:50 GMT
#95237
Indeed; maybe the industry could fund some research efforts to find an affordable way to keep comments sections good.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 17 2016 17:51 GMT
#95238
On August 18 2016 02:50 zlefin wrote:
Indeed; maybe the industry could fund some research efforts to find an affordable way to keep comments sections good.

mods
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11350 Posts
August 17 2016 17:54 GMT
#95239
I have heard those comment sections as being described as Internet Ignorance Aggregators. I am inclined to agree. I have very rarely read anything insightful in the comment sections of news sites. Certainly there are rarely any interesting back and forth exchanges.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-17 17:56:53
August 17 2016 17:55 GMT
#95240
On August 18 2016 02:51 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2016 02:50 zlefin wrote:
Indeed; maybe the industry could fund some research efforts to find an affordable way to keep comments sections good.

mods

Second worst job on the internet. The first being the people who have to scrub facebook for horrible videos of people killing kittens.

On August 18 2016 02:54 Falling wrote:
I have heard those comment sections as being described as Internet Ignorance Aggregators. I am inclined to agree. I have very rarely read anything insightful in the comment sections of news sites. Certainly there are rarely any interesting back and forth exchanges.


Discussion on its own is not meritorious. Back in the day, we used to write letters to the editor. I sort of want that era back.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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