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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46456 Posts
July 27 2016 06:20 GMT
#90181
On July 27 2016 15:11 xDaunt wrote:
.... and you people on the left wonder why we on the right ceaselessly complain about media bias.


That scripted, repeated rhetoric happens on both sides.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6511 Posts
July 27 2016 06:20 GMT
#90182
On July 27 2016 15:01 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 14:56 Nebuchad wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
To vote for Hillary is to endorse 'yes i'm okay with a corrupt political establishment rigging the election and purchasing the media'


Look at what a Trump vote has us endorse and do the math... It's kind of basic.


I try to look on the bright side.

I'm rewarding the GOP for electing a socially liberal candidate, dropping the anti-gay bullshit, and toning down the christian rhetoric from the frontrunner, while punishing the DNC for rigging the election and media.

In 2020 if Trump is doing a bad job, we can see a healthy DNC primary competition for a viable competitor - from the speakers at the DNC there should be no shortage of these.

If Trump does a mediocre or great job, then all the better.

No matter how Trump does, the Democrats will have to start coming up with candidates again because these two won't be fit to run again. They're a whole cycle late doing that.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46456 Posts
July 27 2016 06:26 GMT
#90183
On July 27 2016 15:20 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:01 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:56 Nebuchad wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
To vote for Hillary is to endorse 'yes i'm okay with a corrupt political establishment rigging the election and purchasing the media'


Look at what a Trump vote has us endorse and do the math... It's kind of basic.


I try to look on the bright side.

I'm rewarding the GOP for electing a socially liberal candidate, dropping the anti-gay bullshit, and toning down the christian rhetoric from the frontrunner, while punishing the DNC for rigging the election and media.

In 2020 if Trump is doing a bad job, we can see a healthy DNC primary competition for a viable competitor - from the speakers at the DNC there should be no shortage of these.

If Trump does a mediocre or great job, then all the better.

No matter how Trump does, the Democrats will have to start coming up with candidates again because these two won't be fit to run again. They're a whole cycle late doing that.


Warren/ Booker '20.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12535 Posts
July 27 2016 06:33 GMT
#90184
On July 27 2016 15:00 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 14:56 Nebuchad wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
To vote for Hillary is to endorse 'yes i'm okay with a corrupt political establishment rigging the election and purchasing the media'


Look at what a Trump vote has us endorse and do the math... It's kind of basic.

What does it have you endorse? Do people still consider him racist? Thats so shortsighted.


Off the top of my head, even less corporate taxes, killing the families of terrorists, banning muslims, possibly leaving WTO, worsening the situation on climate change since he (pretends to) believes it's a chinese conspiracy... It is a problem that the basic defense of Trump's policies is generally "he has said so little coherent stuff that you don't really know what he's going to do."

But hey sure, we're really worried about "racism", we're very shallow like that.
No will to live, no wish to die
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 27 2016 06:34 GMT
#90185
On July 27 2016 15:19 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:11 xDaunt wrote:
.... and you people on the left wonder why we on the right ceaselessly complain about media bias.


It's kind of silly, isn't it, to complain that private corporations aren't public institutions?


the market will of course correct this problem in due time! After all if the news are bad the people will stop buying it, right?
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10954 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-27 06:45:51
July 27 2016 06:37 GMT
#90186
On July 27 2016 15:11 xDaunt wrote:
.... and you people on the left wonder why we on the right ceaselessly complain about media bias.



The entire Republican Convention was just endless fearmongering. "Dark" is a pretty accurate description for the picture it painted of the US.
Trumps speech seemed to talk about Mad Max style gangs (of immigrants/mexicans) roaming america...

That all went with "dark" and not even worse adjectives is kinda astonishing.


edit: One day i will Smash this computer for constantly autoswitching between english and german wordcorrections...
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
July 27 2016 06:41 GMT
#90187
On July 27 2016 15:37 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:11 xDaunt wrote:
.... and you people on the left wonder why we on the right ceaselessly complain about media bias.



Well, the entire Republican Convention was just endless fearmongering. "Dark" is a pretty accurate description for the picture it painted of the US.
Trumps speech seemed to be include Mad Max style gangs (of immigrants/mexicans) roaming america...

But well, that all went with "dark" and not even worse adjectives is kinda astonishing.

If you're wondering why they didn't use other adjectives
Clinton Uses “Dark” Magic

Posted July 24th, 2016 @ 7:16pm in #Trump #Clinton #Inluence

If you are following the media coverage after the GOP convention, you know that Democrats and their surrogates are describing Trump’s speech as “dark.” The first ten times I heard the word, I thought it might be a situation in which someone clever used the term once and others copied it.

That is not the case.

“Dark” is a linguistic kill shot from the left. I assume all the TV pundits on Clinton’s team got the message to use the word “dark” right out of the gate. I confess that at first I didn’t recognize how good it is. It’s designed, Trump-style, and it didn’t come from an amateur. The Clinton team is playing some serious 3D chess now.

Do you remember all of those policy details Clinton talked about this week? Me neither. She’s done with that uselessness now. She went full-Voldemort on Trump this week and unleashed a “dark” spell. It’s a good one.

Let me tell you why “dark” is so good.

1. It’s unique. That’s a Trump trick. You haven’t heard “dark” used before in a political context. That makes it memorable and sticky. And it brings no baggage with it to this domain because no other politician has been so labelled.

2. Dark makes you think of black, and black makes you think of racism (in the political season anyway), and that makes you reflexively pair Trump with racism even though it makes no sense.

3. Dark can describe anything scary. It invites the listener to fill in the nightmare with whatever scares them the most about Trump. That’s a hypnosis trick. Leave out the details and let people fill in the story that persuades them the most.

4. Repetition. Dark is the kind of word that pundits can work into almost any answer when talking about Trump. That means you’ll hear it a lot.

I don’t think this one word will change the election by much. But it’s a sign that Clinton has at least one world-class persuader/advisor on the team. I have a feeling I know who. This linguistic kill shot has a partial fingerprint. If I’m right, Godzilla just got into the game.

Source
© Current year.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6511 Posts
July 27 2016 06:46 GMT
#90188
[image loading]

Direct democracy is here at your fingertips with the smartphone, vote now!
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-27 06:52:52
July 27 2016 06:50 GMT
#90189
On July 27 2016 12:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Seth Meyers is spot-on with this, imo. I'm also curious as to GH's opinion of this:


Is it that impossible to understand the bernie or bust people ? I mean, a big part of the extreme left believe the mainstream politics to be neoliberal (which is true), they believe the DNC basically cheated (if it is only partially true) and they believe that now, today, with Bernie Sanders, they might be in a situation to create a party or a movement that reflect their ideas.
There might be an error in judgement somewhere, but all in all their position is quite reasonable.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
July 27 2016 06:51 GMT
#90190
On July 27 2016 15:41 CorsairHero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:37 Velr wrote:
On July 27 2016 15:11 xDaunt wrote:
.... and you people on the left wonder why we on the right ceaselessly complain about media bias.



Well, the entire Republican Convention was just endless fearmongering. "Dark" is a pretty accurate description for the picture it painted of the US.
Trumps speech seemed to be include Mad Max style gangs (of immigrants/mexicans) roaming america...

But well, that all went with "dark" and not even worse adjectives is kinda astonishing.

If you're wondering why they didn't use other adjectives
Show nested quote +
Clinton Uses “Dark” Magic

Posted July 24th, 2016 @ 7:16pm in #Trump #Clinton #Inluence

If you are following the media coverage after the GOP convention, you know that Democrats and their surrogates are describing Trump’s speech as “dark.” The first ten times I heard the word, I thought it might be a situation in which someone clever used the term once and others copied it.

That is not the case.

“Dark” is a linguistic kill shot from the left. I assume all the TV pundits on Clinton’s team got the message to use the word “dark” right out of the gate. I confess that at first I didn’t recognize how good it is. It’s designed, Trump-style, and it didn’t come from an amateur. The Clinton team is playing some serious 3D chess now.

Do you remember all of those policy details Clinton talked about this week? Me neither. She’s done with that uselessness now. She went full-Voldemort on Trump this week and unleashed a “dark” spell. It’s a good one.

Let me tell you why “dark” is so good.

1. It’s unique. That’s a Trump trick. You haven’t heard “dark” used before in a political context. That makes it memorable and sticky. And it brings no baggage with it to this domain because no other politician has been so labelled.

2. Dark makes you think of black, and black makes you think of racism (in the political season anyway), and that makes you reflexively pair Trump with racism even though it makes no sense.

3. Dark can describe anything scary. It invites the listener to fill in the nightmare with whatever scares them the most about Trump. That’s a hypnosis trick. Leave out the details and let people fill in the story that persuades them the most.

4. Repetition. Dark is the kind of word that pundits can work into almost any answer when talking about Trump. That means you’ll hear it a lot.

I don’t think this one word will change the election by much. But it’s a sign that Clinton has at least one world-class persuader/advisor on the team. I have a feeling I know who. This linguistic kill shot has a partial fingerprint. If I’m right, Godzilla just got into the game.

Source


Yeah the whole "Dark" thing wreaks of Luntz. And the overlap in media outlets are the ones we know as the usual suspects.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46456 Posts
July 27 2016 06:55 GMT
#90191
On July 27 2016 15:50 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 12:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Seth Meyers is spot-on with this, imo. I'm also curious as to GH's opinion of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvV2JY8kbgI

Is it that impossible to understand the bernie or bust people ? I mean, a big part of the extreme left believe the mainstream politics to be neoliberal, they believe the DNC basically cheated (even if it is only partially true) and they believe that now, today, with Bernie Sanders, they might be in a situation to create a party or a movement that reflect their ideas.
There might be an error in judgement somewhere, but all in all their position is quite reasonable.


My primary issue is if they decide to not vote at all, vote third-party, or vote for Trump, because that completely undermines all the work that Bernie has been fighting for and his endorsement of Hillary to get a decent amount of progressive reforms done. None of those voting choices help Hillary or Bernie win, helping the Republicans win guarantees the unraveling of the ideal policies that Bernie supporters want, and there's nothing wrong with voting for the Democratic party today and then shaking things up again 4 years from now.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
July 27 2016 06:57 GMT
#90192
One genuine worry is that selecting a shitty president from your side depletes the party's political capital and limits how much you will be able to push your platform in the future. I think GH brought this issue up earlier with Al Gore and a pro-war platform. Hillary offers the same issue for the progressive wing. Her winning means that there will be no other candidate for 8 years. If Trump wins then the party will be able to do better next time. Also, giving a shitty candidate the win makes the party offer you more of those in the future.

I don't buy it as a correct reason in this specific election, but it's a valid viewpoint.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46456 Posts
July 27 2016 07:02 GMT
#90193
I think that Liz Warren and Cory Booker and a few other Democratic candidates could be attractive 2020 hopefuls against a Clinton reelection, assuming Bernie doesn't run again (he'd be ~80 years old). Also, Republicans have been really bad at fielding Republican nominees the past three elections, but they don't really seem to have many more options.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-27 07:45:13
July 27 2016 07:11 GMT
#90194
On July 27 2016 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:50 WhiteDog wrote:
On July 27 2016 12:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Seth Meyers is spot-on with this, imo. I'm also curious as to GH's opinion of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvV2JY8kbgI

Is it that impossible to understand the bernie or bust people ? I mean, a big part of the extreme left believe the mainstream politics to be neoliberal, they believe the DNC basically cheated (even if it is only partially true) and they believe that now, today, with Bernie Sanders, they might be in a situation to create a party or a movement that reflect their ideas.
There might be an error in judgement somewhere, but all in all their position is quite reasonable.


My primary issue is if they decide to not vote at all, vote third-party, or vote for Trump, because that completely undermines all the work that Bernie has been fighting for and his endorsement of Hillary to get a decent amount of progressive reforms done. None of those voting choices help Hillary or Bernie win, helping the Republicans win guarantees the unraveling of the ideal policies that Bernie supporters want, and there's nothing wrong with voting for the Democratic party today and then shaking things up again 4 years from now.

Yes but creating a party or a movement is an extremly hard thing to do nowadays. A long time ago, you could do it with just five people and then roll, nowadays you need a ton of momentum to attract the news and get people to know you. This is what the rule of the game did to our politics : defending non mainstream ideas in this kind of politics without any kind of popular support is useless, as the media never calls you, which leads you into talking to a small cult of followers and that's it.
It is not unfounded to believe that, if creating a movement reflecting extreme left ideas is the goal, now was a good time to try. And by the way, america needs it : those young hardcore stupid kids in the BLM and in modern feminism would gain a lot from having an institution in which they can be part of.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Shingi11
Profile Joined May 2016
290 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-27 07:27:53
July 27 2016 07:27 GMT
#90195
So is there anyone here from Florida who can tell me why rubio has any chance of getting his seat back. He basically gave you the middle finger and said he has better things to do. I know if my senator did that i could give a rats ass for what is at stake i would not vote for him. Is there something about Florida that outsiders(or maybe it is just me) dont get.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
July 27 2016 07:39 GMT
#90196
I think the main problem with the Democrats is that they don't have their own version of the Tea party.
“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
July 27 2016 08:01 GMT
#90197
On July 27 2016 15:33 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:00 NukeD wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:56 Nebuchad wrote:
On July 27 2016 14:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
To vote for Hillary is to endorse 'yes i'm okay with a corrupt political establishment rigging the election and purchasing the media'


Look at what a Trump vote has us endorse and do the math... It's kind of basic.

What does it have you endorse? Do people still consider him racist? Thats so shortsighted.


Off the top of my head, even less corporate taxes, killing the families of terrorists, banning muslims, possibly leaving WTO, worsening the situation on climate change since he (pretends to) believes it's a chinese conspiracy... It is a problem that the basic defense of Trump's policies is generally "he has said so little coherent stuff that you don't really know what he's going to do."

But hey sure, we're really worried about "racism", we're very shallow like that.

Oh okay, haven't really been following the scene latelly. I just assumed its the old narative of him being racist.
sorry for dem one liners
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24354 Posts
July 27 2016 08:25 GMT
#90198
Good lord the propaganda team is strong, and you guys are worried about an idiotic Trump administration.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10165 Posts
July 27 2016 08:27 GMT
#90199
On July 27 2016 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2016 15:50 WhiteDog wrote:
On July 27 2016 12:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Seth Meyers is spot-on with this, imo. I'm also curious as to GH's opinion of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvV2JY8kbgI

Is it that impossible to understand the bernie or bust people ? I mean, a big part of the extreme left believe the mainstream politics to be neoliberal, they believe the DNC basically cheated (even if it is only partially true) and they believe that now, today, with Bernie Sanders, they might be in a situation to create a party or a movement that reflect their ideas.
There might be an error in judgement somewhere, but all in all their position is quite reasonable.


My primary issue is if they decide to not vote at all, vote third-party, or vote for Trump, because that completely undermines all the work that Bernie has been fighting for and his endorsement of Hillary to get a decent amount of progressive reforms done. None of those voting choices help Hillary or Bernie win, helping the Republicans win guarantees the unraveling of the ideal policies that Bernie supporters want, and there's nothing wrong with voting for the Democratic party today and then shaking things up again 4 years from now.

That's democrat's fault if they expect their vote on a blank check just because Trump is the opponent. If you want to shake up things you need to have something to bargain with, otherwise the whole danger adverse / status quo will block you anyways. Now is the time, in a few years you will lose the momentum to do anything.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6343 Posts
July 27 2016 08:46 GMT
#90200
On July 27 2016 17:25 GreenHorizons wrote:
Good lord the propaganda team is strong, and you guys are worried about an idiotic Trump administration.

https://twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/758137430180524032



Mainstream media talking about how peaceful and quiet day 2 is compared to day 1, no mention of everyone leaving. The more they try to spin this and bury it the angrier people will become.

“What the public criticizes in you, cultivate. It is you.” - Jean Cocteau
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