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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
July 25 2016 19:20 GMT
#88841
On July 26 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#now

Fivethirtyeight predicting odds of Trump winning, if the election was held today, are 56.7% to Hillary's 43.4%

You should read Nate’s coverage of that and what he expects to happen. This is very standard for an election season.

Also there are a few articles about polling around the the conventions and that they are wildly inaccurate. I think three weeks from now we will have a better idea of how this played out.


I did I'm aware of his other numbers

VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 25 2016 19:23 GMT
#88842
Lets just say Sanders is finally showing his true colors. I know people in Vermont that weren't that fond of him.

After all, he is an established politician.

He is basically what Trump was except on the other side, a lot of promises that could never be fulfilled.

Not surprised that he isn't taking the Cruz route and showing some backbone and instead just being a bozo.
I come in for the scraps
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 25 2016 19:24 GMT
#88843
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:25:27
July 25 2016 19:24 GMT
#88844
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


Cruz made the same promise.

Funny how many people were admiring him for 'standing up for what he believes in' while at the same time defending Sanders for 'standing up for the party and doing the right thing'

Logic
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:25:59
July 25 2016 19:25 GMT
#88845
I don't think a Cruz comparison makes much sense; there was literally nothing Cruz could have done to alter or influence the course of events by the time the convention rolled around, whereas Sanders has a fairly significant role to play in the shape of the party during and after the convention.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 25 2016 19:26 GMT
#88846
Eh, maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but I don't think that Bernie was booed so much as his request that his supporters support Hillary was booed. Bernie is in an impossible position and should be cut a little slack.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 25 2016 19:27 GMT
#88847
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.
I come in for the scraps
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
July 25 2016 19:30 GMT
#88848
On July 26 2016 04:26 xDaunt wrote:
Eh, maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but I don't think that Bernie was booed so much as his request that his supporters support Hillary was booed. Bernie is in an impossible position and should be cut a little slack.


That's what I said. His supporters are chanting 'we want Bernie' and boo when he says to get behind Clinton with him.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:31:28
July 25 2016 19:30 GMT
#88849
he's a progressive so he's obviously going to endorse the most liberal candidate left in the race. I honestly thought this 'berniebro' thing months back was unfair but it honestly seems like a large crowd of his supporters have no political convictions at all and just wants to fuck shit up as much as Trump's followers. If you care even a little bit about liberal principles you are going to do anything that keeps Trump out of office.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 25 2016 19:31 GMT
#88850
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 25 2016 19:33 GMT
#88851
On July 26 2016 04:31 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?


No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.

That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in
I come in for the scraps
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:35:49
July 25 2016 19:33 GMT
#88852
On July 26 2016 04:31 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?


You mean like how a few months ago he was saying he believed "Clinton cannot be president"?

The Green Party offered to make him their candidate and he refused.

And there is always Gary Johnson.

I don't think it has anything to do with what he believes is right. He's just playing politics like everyone else.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4825 Posts
July 25 2016 19:35 GMT
#88853
As soon as Clinton promises free college or some freebie garbage, most of the Bernie people will come around.

She just has to bide her time. She already floated 3 months of loan relief or whatever it was.

If she thinks she's going to lose she'll just do that.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:39:31
July 25 2016 19:36 GMT
#88854
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

Not really, no. It shows that there are a section of his supporters that are unwilling to compromise or influence government in any way beyond winning the nomination. This is a myopic and short sighted way to view politics, as no one wins all the time and no one can govern alone. He would need the DNC to get elected and a large part of it wouldn’t play ball. And I doubt there is anything he can say to convince them that he needs their support. Because they refuse to accept a world where he works with Clinton.

On July 26 2016 04:33 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:31 zlefin wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

isn't it more backbone to say what he believes is right, rather than to say whatever some of his supporters favor to get elected?


No, after he got fucked by the party he should not be supporting them in the slightest but he's definitely taking behind the scene deals.

That's where the tone deaf disconnect comes in


Don’t let the narrative confusion you. He lost the primary by almost four million votes. Even if 50% of those people would have shifted their vote if the DNC had been neutral, he still would have lost by almost 2 million. And 50% is a huge give. It is doubtful the DNC changed that many minds.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4825 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:37:55
July 25 2016 19:37 GMT
#88855
On July 26 2016 04:24 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


Cruz made the same promise.

Funny how many people were admiring him for 'standing up for what he believes in' while at the same time defending Sanders for 'standing up for the party and doing the right thing'

Logic


The pledge became null and void for a variety of reasons, not least of all that Trump himself went back on in March, I think it was.

Sanders is being smart because Hillary is undoubtedly a progressive.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:39:24
July 25 2016 19:37 GMT
#88856
On July 26 2016 04:35 Introvert wrote:
As soon as Clinton promises free college or some freebie garbage, most of the Bernie people will come around.

She just has to bide her time. She already floated 3 months of loan relief or whatever it was.

If she thinks she's going to lose she'll just do that.


No, I'm fairly certain most of them already think she's a crooked politician so her promising free shit isn't going to change anything. Bernie people who vote for her will do so on the basis that they prefer her to Trump.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:42:57
July 25 2016 19:40 GMT
#88857
On July 26 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

Not really, no. It shows that there are a section of his supporters that are unwilling to compromise or influence government in any way beyond winning the nomination. This is a myopic and short sighted way to view politics, as no one wins all the time and no one can govern alone. He would need the DNC to get elected and a large part of it wouldn’t play ball. And I doubt there is anything he can say to convince them that he needs their support. Because they refuse to accept a world where he works with Clinton.


Alright lets say for a second that you work in a company.

You and another guy are working to become partner, which is a huge raise. You are way better educated and better skill-wise in your field. The other guy is simply more well connected at the office.

He goes on to become partner, you aren't sure where you went wrong. A month passes by and later you discover that the executives were colluding to get the other guy in because his dad golfs with the CEO, and keep you out at all costs.

Do you stay with that company or do you quit and find another job?

edit - to your edit, im not really concerned at all with whether sanders would have won or not, its irrelevant. The fact that he thinks the people that like him are going to rally behind clinton is hilarious though.
I come in for the scraps
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 19:48:48
July 25 2016 19:42 GMT
#88858
On July 26 2016 04:40 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

Not really, no. It shows that there are a section of his supporters that are unwilling to compromise or influence government in any way beyond winning the nomination. This is a myopic and short sighted way to view politics, as no one wins all the time and no one can govern alone. He would need the DNC to get elected and a large part of it wouldn’t play ball. And I doubt there is anything he can say to convince them that he needs their support. Because they refuse to accept a world where he works with Clinton.


Alright lets say for a second that you work in a company.

You and another guy are working to become partner, which is a huge raise. You are way better educated and better skill-wise in your field. The other guy is simply more well connected at the office.

He goes on to become partner, you aren't sure where you went wrong. A month passes by and later you discover that the executives were colluding to get the other guy in because his dad golfs with the CEO, and keep you out at all costs.

Do you stay with that company or do you quit and find another job?

That isn’t how politics works. You don’t “win” promotions. There isn’t a public voting process. He literally lost by 3.7 million votes. If the DNC could change that many minds and votes at their whim, they couldn’t have lost the House and Senate in 2010.

Edit: If they don’t rally behind him, they are the most fair weather of supporters. At some point protest stops being about the changing things and becomes self aggrandizing.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
July 25 2016 19:43 GMT
#88859
On July 26 2016 04:23 VayneAuthority wrote:
Lets just say Sanders is finally showing his true colors. I know people in Vermont that weren't that fond of him.

After all, he is an established politician.

He is basically what Trump was except on the other side, a lot of promises that could never be fulfilled.

Not surprised that he isn't taking the Cruz route and showing some backbone and instead just being a bozo.


He has nothing in common with Trump except that people who never voted before love them both.

Also he and Hillary probably the same on issues 90% time, while Trump and Cruz prob 30% time.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
TMagpie
Profile Joined June 2015
265 Posts
July 25 2016 19:44 GMT
#88860
On July 26 2016 04:40 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 26 2016 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
Sanders literally stated a year ago that he's not going to blow the Democratic party apart and will endorse the democratic candidate should he lose, what 'true colors' lol


that's political talk m8

It shows he is tone deaf to his supporters and despite our ever changing world, he is not reacting to what is happening.
He's simply following the same script.

He should have denounced Trump and Clinton and left it at that, it's a bad move.

Not really, no. It shows that there are a section of his supporters that are unwilling to compromise or influence government in any way beyond winning the nomination. This is a myopic and short sighted way to view politics, as no one wins all the time and no one can govern alone. He would need the DNC to get elected and a large part of it wouldn’t play ball. And I doubt there is anything he can say to convince them that he needs their support. Because they refuse to accept a world where he works with Clinton.


Alright lets say for a second that you work in a company.

You and another guy are working to become partner, which is a huge raise. You are way better educated and better skill-wise in your field. The other guy is simply more well connected at the office.

He goes on to become partner, you aren't sure where you went wrong. A month passes by and later you discover that the executives were colluding to get the other guy in because his dad golfs with the CEO, and keep you out at all costs.

Do you stay with that company or do you quit and find another job?

edit - to your edit, im not really concerned at all with whether sanders would have won or not, its irrelevant. The fact that he thinks the people that like him are going to rally behind clinton is hilarious though.


Obviously, only your current company has those types of problems and no other company out there has those exact same issues.
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