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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:12 Kyadytim wrote: I'm amazed to see all those people applauding "protect LGBTQ communities" considering the party platform's stance on LGTBQ people. There's a difference between "gay sex and gay marriage are immoral" and "gay Americans should be slaughtered." | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24504 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:08 FiWiFaKi wrote: I'll take the Trump compliment I suppose. But I will say, calling Trump racist, sexist, or anti-gay has always been misinformed. The one argument you can make is he's potentially somewhat skeptical of Islam. Honestly, I just really really hope people give Trump a chance, and look at him again with fewer preconceived notions. I know it just sounds like I'm flaunting Trump support, but I really think he would be good for the country, and he's what the country needs. See through the non-PC statements he said, and just give him a try... It's very easy to make Hillary look bad, and it's also very easy to make Trump look bad, just depends which side you're standing on. Try to start in the middle. I know I'm a bit biased at this point as I have gone into this camp, but when I read the statements here... All too often people come here with the notion that he's a lunatic bigot, and really, he's not. He's not perfect, but he's not most of what you guys accuse him to be. Anyway, apologies for the emotionally charged statements, but I wanted to get them out there because I thought they're important. Well, I'm done for the day. I think why people miss the mark about Trump's racism, sexism, general bigotry, is that it's not from some notion that he exists in some group that's better than the other groups, it's that he thinks from an individual perspective that HE is better than everyone. In deference to reality he acknowledges that if he's not the best at something he knows who the best is and they are friends (with the underlying implication that had he devoted his time to what they had, instead of real estate, he would be the best at that too). The guy is a rabid narcissist with massive insecurities, but he's no more bigoted than the typical person of his means, in fact if we look at how he's actually lived his life, as opposed to the character he's created, he's probably less of a bigot but slightly more of a jerk than his peers. I don't hold any of it against Trump personally. He's holding up a mirror to America and they just can't understand that he is our reflection. I think him "reaching out" to LGBTQ and the some of the communities in which they reside is probably one of the best examples of that from the speech. | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On July 22 2016 13:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Normally it's like 20 to 5 all the Clinton supporters must be asleep Nah, you just can't count on liberals to actually vote, amirite?  | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:19 xDaunt wrote: There's a difference between "gay sex and gay marriage are immoral" and "gay Americans should be slaughtered." Yeah, sorry. That was a bit of an asshat reply from me - I was just reading something this morning about how the platform is out of touch with the party's base on the subject of gay marriage and such. There were plenty of people who were totally okay with gays being slaughtered, judging by their posts on facebook and twitter after the Orlando shooting, though  Stuff like "at least it wasn't innocent people," "nothing wrong with shooting a few gays," or calling it an effective shooting. Probably not a tremendous number, but I find it kind of disturbing that people were okay posting that stuff on social media tied to their name. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:48 Kyadytim wrote: Yeah, sorry. That was a bit of an asshat reply from me - I was just reading something this morning about how the platform is out of touch with the party's base on the subject of gay marriage and such. There were plenty of people who were totally okay with gays being slaughtered, judging by their posts on facebook and twitter after the Orlando shooting, though Stuff like "at least it wasn't innocent people," "nothing wrong with shooting a few gays," or calling it an effective shooting. Probably not a tremendous number, but I find it kind of disturbing that people were okay posting that stuff on social media tied to their name.and then you get the BLM folk whining that Orlando takes away from the attention towards them or that regressive left claiming Islam cannot in any circumstance be part of the discussion with respect to the shooter | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
And GH, I think you can say that he's a bit narcassist, though I'd state it more as not humble, assertive, confident, with a touch of arrogance. I think the fact he's not humble is a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's seemingly a more important trait to have every year, but I think it's not a bad quality in a leader. It's just people jump to the conclusion that he must be an asshole, a bigot, and hence old fashioned, and hence all the -ist terms, unintelligent, and automatically disqualify him based off of that. Yes, Trump stretches the truth and leaves out information, like when quoting statistics using inconsistent years for data that should use the same years (comparing voter turnouts of Republicans to Democrats), but its a skill and strategy that politicians utlitize all the time. And it's needed to win elections, and that's what Trump has to do now before he can think about "making America great again". He's been quick to understand the game, and to win a political election, you need to use some of these political tricks... Such as saying stuff to appeal to a wide voter base, as every candicate does every four years, even when it's often fluff. At the end of the day, it's not representative of his character, and he's a far better man than people give him credit for... Hopefully the eyes were on him these last four days, and people learned something. Pardon the grammatical errors, I wrote this before I fell asleep on my phone, which usually leads to this stuff as my fingers and brain don't work at the same speed here. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On July 22 2016 16:17 Slaughter wrote: Yea but its weird that Clinton gets hit hard by "not telling the truth" but Trump gets a pass? The guy has done more lying then anyone during this election season but no one seems to care but Clinton gets stuck with this label of being too dishonest to elect. Would you be happy if they were both generally acknowledged to be lying shits? | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On July 22 2016 16:17 Slaughter wrote: Yea but its weird that Clinton gets hit hard by "not telling the truth" but Trump gets a pass? The guy has done more lying then anyone during this election season but no one seems to care but Clinton gets stuck with this label of being too dishonest to elect. I think that's a more complex issue than people give it credit for, I'll try to reply to it when I wake up. But at the end of it all, you have to attack the other candidate to win the election... Both parties are vicious, and when support is roughly split between the nation, and both parties are claiming that the other would be a complete and utter catastrophe, it's likely a good indicator that there's bias in play. But either way, if you're a Hillary supporter and she attacks Trump, you're going to cheer for whatever bad she says about him, and vice versa. It's the self interest you have for your candidate, where when there's some lunatic speaking at the RNC, and you're a Trump fan, you'll keep quiet. The dishonesty of the two candidates is different in nature, and if you support Trump, you'll find justification for what Trump said, and not for the kind that Hillary did... Which was in positions of public trust. On the other hand, if you like Hillary, you'll find it easier to put that past, because Trump has lied more than Hillary - there's no question. Anyway, what I'm really trying to get at is we love to pick a side, and keep wanting to reaffirm out views, and look at the situation from the lens of that side, conciously or not. Good night. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On July 22 2016 16:17 Slaughter wrote: Yea but its weird that Clinton gets hit hard by "not telling the truth" but Trump gets a pass? The guy has done more lying then anyone during this election season but no one seems to care but Clinton gets stuck with this label of being too dishonest to elect. Because Clinton is a politician and the Donald is a clown. You dont go to the circus and expect the clowns to be honest serious people. You expect wacky hijinks and light hearted fun. | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On July 22 2016 16:34 RoomOfMush wrote: Because Clinton is a politician and the Donald is a clown. You dont go to the circus and expect the clowns to be honest serious people. You expect wacky hijinks and light hearted fun. Or you avoid the circus because clowns scare the shit out of you...so here we are then... | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24504 Posts
On July 22 2016 16:06 FiWiFaKi wrote: Exactly as CorsairHero says, bad apples in both parties, though probably more with the Republicans, also Republican bad apples send a stronger negative message, so there's that. And GH, I think you can say that he's a bit narcassist, though I'd state it more as not humble, assertive, confident, with a touch of arrogance. I think the fact he's not humble is a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's seemingly a more important trait to have every year, but I think it's not a bad quality in a leader. It's just people jump to the conclusion that he must be an asshole, a bigot, and hence old fashioned, and hence all the -ist terms, unintelligent, and automatically disqualify him based off of that. Yes, Trump stretches the truth and leaves out information, like when quoting statistics using inconsistent years for data that should use the same years (comparing voter turnouts of Republicans to Democrats), but its a skill and strategy that politicians utlitize all the time. He's been quick to understand the game, and to win a political election, you need to use some of these political tricks... Such as saying stuff to appeal to a wide voter base, as every cabdicate does every four years, even when it's often fluff. At the end of the day, it's not representative of his character, and he's a far better man than people give him credit for... Hopefully the eyes were on him these last four days, and people learned something. Apologies for any grammatical errors, I wrote this before I fell asleep on my phone, which usually leads to this stuff and my fingers and brain don't work at the same speed here. Trump lies. They all do, he does it pretty frequently. But I imagine most of the gap in the ism's idea between us is more about what we consider those 'isms rather than whether Trump has those behaviors. I don't think it's really that important to the larger point though. I think the bold part is what's important. I find it especially comical because so many backed Clinton with the idea that they could excuse her baggage as "playing the game", and now they are all upset because he's so much better at the lying part. But they have no problem bragging about her being better at the collecting "corrupting influence" money than Trump. Hillary appears to not understand how badly she is crapping the bed by picking Kaine either. Everyone still think the convention is going to go smoothly? | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eUeIZt7.png) lets see the numbers after the democrats convention | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote: Ironic coming from what we're made to believe is the biggest bigot the GOP has had to offer in a while. I don't think those who have openly called Trump a racist or sexist would be so naive as to think that. The bigotry of the modern Republican party runs deep and there are far more bigoted politicians in it than Donald Trump. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24504 Posts
On July 22 2016 17:26 TheYango wrote: I don't think those who have openly called Trump a racist or sexist would be so naive as to think that. The bigotry of the modern Republican party runs deep and there are far more bigoted politicians in it than Donald Trump. I meant for president. Though there are voices on the left (not here really) who's talk would make one think they meant he's the biggest bigot in the country (instead of just a very popular one). | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On July 22 2016 17:26 TheYango wrote: I don't think those who have openly called Trump a racist or sexist would be so naive as to think that. . Why not? They just consume whatever the media feeds them. They have no idea that Ted Cruz is worse than Trump or as P6 has pointed out, republicans don't even like Ted Cruz. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 22 2016 15:19 xDaunt wrote: There's a difference between "gay sex and gay marriage are immoral" and "gay Americans should be slaughtered." And "gays should be tortured through conversation therapy and denied basic civil rights like marriage." The RNC has no interest in protecting the LGTBQ community. | ||
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farvacola
United States18875 Posts
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