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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
July 12 2016 17:08 GMT
#85061
Oh Gowdy is up next, gonna get interesting
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
July 12 2016 17:08 GMT
#85062
On July 13 2016 02:06 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:03 m4ini wrote:
It's a bit like arguing that physics are subjective. Because quantum theories and uncertainties.

But it actually made me chuckle a bit that plansix had to run into someone who actually studied the very thing he's citing to prove his point.

Can't really argue with that. ^^

I will admit to being a total novice on the subject and pretty bad at it. If high level mathematics is in no way subjective, I will admit to being complete wrong.

But “Facts” in law and “Facts” in math do not have the same meaning.


No worries. I would've believed what you said, weren't it for someone who knows better. I don't require "high level math" in my day to day life, so i'm not really knowledgeable in that regard.

The last sentence certainly is right. Not just facts btw, but theories too.
On track to MA1950A.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2629 Posts
July 12 2016 17:09 GMT
#85063
Like I said, I usually don't post in this thread. But I got annoyed when I read that bit about mathematics being subjective, particularly abstract (I presume this is what he means by theoretical) mathematics.... If you look at texts about abstract mathematics, you will see that they are all structured in essentially the same way. Every one begins with a set of definitions and axioms that are the bare minimum required to prove later results. Then, anything that can be proved using only that set of definitions, must be and will be proved. Often, you will see more definitions introduced along the way, that are then used to prove weaker results. The end result is a set of theorems where you know precisely what assumptions are required to produce each result-- the exact opposite of subjectivity.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2629 Posts
July 12 2016 17:10 GMT
#85064
On July 13 2016 02:08 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:06 Plansix wrote:
On July 13 2016 02:03 m4ini wrote:
It's a bit like arguing that physics are subjective. Because quantum theories and uncertainties.

But it actually made me chuckle a bit that plansix had to run into someone who actually studied the very thing he's citing to prove his point.

Can't really argue with that. ^^

I will admit to being a total novice on the subject and pretty bad at it. If high level mathematics is in no way subjective, I will admit to being complete wrong.

But “Facts” in law and “Facts” in math do not have the same meaning.


No worries. I would've believed what you said, weren't it for someone who knows better. I don't require "high level math" in my day to day life, so i'm not really knowledgeable in that regard.

The last sentence certainly is right. Not just facts btw, but theories too.

I completely agree that facts in law and facts in math are very different things.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
July 12 2016 17:12 GMT
#85065
On July 13 2016 01:20 travis wrote:
lol, this guy just owned her so hard

was it Trey Gowdy
© Current year.
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
July 12 2016 17:12 GMT
#85066
it wasnt the rowdy gowdy. not sure who
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2629 Posts
July 12 2016 17:13 GMT
#85067
Who is speaking now to Lynch?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42642 Posts
July 12 2016 17:13 GMT
#85068
Didn't Lynch wash her hands of the entire matter by stating that as a political appointee she wanted to avoid the appearance of partiality in order to place the outcome above all doubt and that she would therefore comply with whatever the FBI recommended? If so, why the hell is she being questioned? She wasn't even involved because she knew that they'd do exactly this bullshit.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
July 12 2016 17:14 GMT
#85069
On July 13 2016 02:13 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Who is speaking now to Lynch?

Gowdy
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 17:14:20
July 12 2016 17:14 GMT
#85070
On July 13 2016 02:13 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Who is speaking now to Lynch?


Ted Gowdy
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
July 12 2016 17:14 GMT
#85071
On July 13 2016 02:06 kapibara-san wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:03 mahrgell wrote:
Just take the axiom of choice. Even in modern publications a huge number of mathematicians refuses to accept it as an axiom.
And the consequences are insanely far reaching, once you look deeper into the theory, because seemingly trivial and obvious stuff is requiring it.

Show nested quote +
Although originally controversial, the axiom of choice is now used without reservation by most mathematicians,[2] and it is included in the standard form of axiomatic set theory, Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory with the axiom of choice (ZFC). One motivation for this use is that a number of generally accepted mathematical results, such as Tychonoff's theorem, require the axiom of choice for their proofs. Contemporary set theorists also study axioms that are not compatible with the axiom of choice, such as the axiom of determinacy. The axiom of choice is avoided in some varieties of constructive mathematics, although there are varieties of constructive mathematics in which the axiom of choice is embraced.


is wikipedia lying to me here? cuz it sounds like u either choose to use it or you dont and nobody's claiming to have objective superiority; just sounds like a lot of mathematicians find it more useful to use it as an axiom than to use competing axioms


Yes, it is basically up to the individual if you use it or not. And based off that you will have way more or less tools available.(actually, assuming the axiom not in place allows some very interesting stuff too..)

Problem is, that you will see a ton of "and it mathmatically proven that..." stuff that is based on either interpretation and is for obvious reasons conflicting. Even worse, as the article correctly states, there are entire branches (not) using it, which causes huge problems in interdisciplinary research, because basically everything one side has to offer requires the axiom, and everything the other side has to show for is based on the axiom not being used. And then you find articles just mixing both sides and get confused :[
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 12 2016 17:15 GMT
#85072
On July 13 2016 02:08 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:05 LegalLord wrote:
Wait, so what is this hearing about? What the fuck does a Supreme Court ruling have to do with this?

This hearing is about Republicans being salty that Hillary has not been indicted.

Just another witch hunt like Benghazi, hopefully this one won't drag on for quite so long.

Hooray for instantly claiming that any Republican-led hearing must instantly be Benghazi.

Didn't answer the question either.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
July 12 2016 17:16 GMT
#85073
On July 12 2016 23:28 farvacola wrote:
The problem is that those instances are not serious and have relatively little impact on the actual well-being of individuals. Folks complaining about racial or genderized overtones in advertisements or expressions are one thing; actually substantiating the claim that "PC culture" is doing real harm is another.


Does the Ft. Hood Shooting count?

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/12/03/neighbor-didnt-report-suspicious-activity-of-san-bernardino-killers-for-fear-of-being-called-racist-n2088543

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/syed-farooks-neighbors-didnt-report-suspicious-activity-for-fear-of-profiling/

Texas Representative John Carter criticized the report, saying he felt the government was "afraid to be accused of profiling somebody".


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/19/gop-congressman-blasts-pentagon-report-fort-hood-shooting.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A foxnews%252Fpolitics %2528Text - Politics%2529

John Lehman, a member of the 9/11 Commission and Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan, said he felt that the report "shows you how deeply entrenched the values of political correctness have become."


http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1954960,00.html

zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 17:19:13
July 12 2016 17:16 GMT
#85074
On July 13 2016 02:13 KwarK wrote:
Didn't Lynch wash her hands of the entire matter by stating that as a political appointee she wanted to avoid the appearance of partiality in order to place the outcome above all doubt and that she would therefore comply with whatever the FBI recommended? If so, why the hell is she being questioned? She wasn't even involved because she knew that they'd do exactly this bullshit.

She talked with Bill Clinton before she came to that conclusion. You know the same guy that appointed her as a US attorney in 1999
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 12 2016 17:17 GMT
#85075
Donald Trump is "going to try" to abide by Ronald Reagan's so-called 11th Commandment that one "shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican." But the presumptive GOP nominee is making no promises, he told Pat Robertson during an interview aired Tuesday on "The 700 Club."

"These are all going to be your troops," the longtime televangelist said, to which Trump responded, "Yeah."

As far as whether he would abide by the commandment handed down 50 years ago by the then-California gubernatorial candidate and future president, Trump was noncommittal.

"Well, I’m going to try. I’m going to try," Trump responded, as Robertson laughed, remarking that it was "tough for you."
Trump continued, "With you, I cannot tell a lie, right? I cannot tell a lie. I'd feel very guilty."

"But I will say this — look, you know, I’ve gotten more votes than anybody in the history of the Republican primaries, and I had 17 people," Trump said. "You know, others had two or three people, so it is much easier to get. Got almost 14 million votes in the primary system, which is a record. Won 37 states. We’ve had tremendous support, but every once in a while you have somebody who doesn't want to support," he remarked.

"I can't promise you that I’ll be treating that person really, really well, but I will try," Trump said. "I’ll think about you every time, OK?"


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42642 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-12 17:25:19
July 12 2016 17:18 GMT
#85076
On July 13 2016 02:16 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:13 KwarK wrote:
Didn't Lynch wash her hands of the entire matter by stating that as a political appointee she wanted to avoid the appearance of partiality in order to place the outcome above all doubt and that she would therefore comply with whatever the FBI recommended? If so, why the hell is she being questioned? She wasn't even involved because she knew that they'd do exactly this bullshit.

She talked with Bill Clinton before she came to that conclusion. You know the same guy that appointed her as a US attorney in 1999

So you're suggesting that Bill Clinton somehow got to her and convinced her to accept the recommendations of the FBI if they found Hillary's actions illegal? Do you think he wants her in prison so he can move one of his mistresses in?

Like what's the theory here? He goes to someone he has influence over and says "I need you not to intervene in my favour"? How would that help Hillary?

also
Ms. Lynch said she had decided this spring to defer to the recommendations of her staff and the F.B.I. because her status as a political appointee sitting in judgment on a politically charged case would raise questions of a conflict of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 12 2016 17:20 GMT
#85077
On July 13 2016 02:16 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2016 02:13 KwarK wrote:
Didn't Lynch wash her hands of the entire matter by stating that as a political appointee she wanted to avoid the appearance of partiality in order to place the outcome above all doubt and that she would therefore comply with whatever the FBI recommended? If so, why the hell is she being questioned? She wasn't even involved because she knew that they'd do exactly this bullshit.

She talked with Bill Clinton before she came to that conclusion. You know the same guy that appointed her as a US attorney in 1999

Sounds like the decision was made back in 1999.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 12 2016 17:22 GMT
#85078
Donald Trump chided Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg in a Tuesday interview with The New York Times after she gave multiple comments that were highly critical of his campaign.

“I think it’s highly inappropriate that a United States Supreme Court judge gets involved in a political campaign, frankly,” Trump told the Times by phone. “I think it’s a disgrace to the court and I think she should apologize to the court. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it.”

Ginsburg in recent days has ramped up her criticisms of Trump's campaign. She has said he's a "faker" who should release his tax returns, that she "can't imagine" a Trump presidency, and that "everything" would be up for grabs with him occupying the White House. Ginsburg's comments are unique in that a Supreme Court justice typically doesn't comment on presidential candidates during election season.

Trump went on to say that it was "beneath the court" for Ginsburg to criticize him and argued that her comments would only further energize his supporters.

"And I would hope that she would get off the court as soon as possible,” he added.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6284 Posts
July 12 2016 17:23 GMT
#85079
On July 13 2016 02:18 KwarK wrote:
That's not how I recall it. I recall her washing her hands of the matter weeks, if not months, before she met Clinton.

Nope. Here is a completely biased Democrat source:

Donald Trump has seized on the incident as an example of the Clintons’ fundamental corruption. John Cornyn, the second-ranking Republican in the Senate, has called for Lynch to appoint a special counsel to run the investigation and remove herself from the process. Even Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) has said the meeting sent "the wrong signal" (he later dialed back his criticisms).

And now Lynch herself has felt the need to announce that she will accept whatever recommendations career prosecutors make as to whether to bring charges related to Clinton's emails. "The recommendations will be reviewed by career supervisors in the Department of Justice and in the FBI, and by the FBI director, and then as is the common process, they present it to me and I fully expect to accept their recommendations," she said at an event in Aspen. As for the meeting with Bill Clinton, Lynch said, "I certainly wouldn't do it again."


http://www.vox.com/2016/7/1/12079366/bill-clinton-loretta-lynch-plane-meeting
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 12 2016 17:23 GMT
#85080
This hearing is basically a mix of Lynch answering off-topic questions given by Dems and giving non-answers to anything asked by Republicans.

Whether or not this is a Republican witch hunt... it certainly is being given credence by the dodger-in-chief here.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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