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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4093

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-20 04:00:52
June 20 2016 03:59 GMT
#81841
Gave him an early boost for sure, but after his gaffe vs. Christie no one can take him seriously anymore. Maybe in another decade if he manages to keep office.

Keep in mind, no one would care about the issues of Cruz or Trump if they didn't have some success in the primaries. More success means more attention, a lot of which is negative. Trump was involved in 2012 and didn't offend too many people (though many people did consider him to be a joke candidate, to be fair).
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 20 2016 04:06 GMT
#81842
eh... don't believe it:

Justice Clarence Thomas, a reliable conservative vote on the Supreme Court, is mulling retirement after the presidential election, according to court watchers.

Thomas, appointed by former President George H.W. Bush and approved by the Senate after a bitter confirmation, has been considering retirement for a while and never planned to stay until he died, they said. He likes to spend summers in his RV with his wife.

His retirement would have a substantial impact on control of the court. The next president is expected to immediately replace the seat opened by the death of conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, providing a one-vote edge in the court that is currently divided 4-4.

Should Thomas leave, that slight majority would continue if Donald Trump becomes president. If it's Hillary Clinton, then she would get the chance to flip two Republican seats, giving the liberals a 6-3 majority.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
June 20 2016 04:08 GMT
#81843
Regardless what you think of the man Trump has won the nomination.The country will erupt if he is denied now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-20 04:10:43
June 20 2016 04:09 GMT
#81844
Can they tell just by his expression and body language?

Edit: You mean the 23% of the country that are Republicans? Or the roughly 35-45% of primary voters than went for Trump?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 20 2016 04:25 GMT
#81845
After an anxiety-inducing and divisive primary, Democrats are starting to breathe easier. Bernie Sanders, while not formally conceding to Hillary Clinton, has turned his fire on Donald Trump. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, the darling of the left before Sanders, has effusively endorsed Clinton. So at last the presumptive nominee can hope to gather in all those unhappy Bernie voters and lead a united Democratic Party in the fall, right?

Not if Dr. Jill Stein has anything to say about it.

The longtime Massachusetts environmental activist and presumptive Green Party nominee (the Green convention is not until August 4) is hungrily eyeing disgruntled Sanders voters—many of whom have been saying that even now, with the nomination all but locked up, they still won’t vote for Hillary. And Stein appears to know her audience, declaring on CNN right after the California primary that she represents “a plan B … to continue to fight that revolution.”

She is also undaunted by the Democratic coalescing around Clinton. Asked in an interview with Politico Magazine this week whether the Warren endorsement presents a problem for her, Stein suggested that the Massachusetts senator lacks the progressive credibility to sway Sanders voters: “Elizabeth Warren has very good proposals regarding Wall Street, but she really has not been leading the charge for single-payer health care … and is pretty much a war hawk in alignment with Hillary Clinton.” (Stein is not the first voice on the left to criticize Warren’s foreign policy record as militaristic.)

You may be wondering: The Green Party? What’s that—one of those European lefty outfits? And do they have a prayer of getting more than a fraction of the vote? As of today, Stein is but a blip. Eighty-seven percent of voters don’t know enough about her to register an opinion in a late May Quinnipiac poll. And Clinton’s lead over Trump appears big enough to weather a little left-wing erosion. But with a recent Bloomberg poll showing that only 55 percent of Sanders voters are ready for Hillary, the conditions exist for Stein to spark a larger exodus–if she can raise her profile and if Democrats can’t unify at next month’s convention.

And while the Greens have been under the radar in America for the past several years, they proudly claim at least 100 municipal officeholders, and from 2007 to 2015 they controlled the mayoralty of the 100,000-person city of Richmond, California. Now, like the Libertarian Party, the Green Party sees its moment in this season of widespread discontent, when both Clinton and presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump begin the general election campaign with record-high unfavorables. Stein’s platform is nearly identical to Sanders’, only more pacifist (the two diverge on the use of military drones) and more ambitious (beyond providing free college, Stein would cancel all existing student debt).

And Stein may be making big strides toward being treated like a legitimate presidential candidate. In her 2012 Green Party run, she appeared on only 36 state ballots. But her campaign’s ballot access coordinator told Counterpunch last week that “we fully expect to get on the ballot in all but three states due to our petition drives” and will then litigate the “onerous” requirements in the three remaining states in hopes of hitting 50.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 20 2016 04:32 GMT
#81846
In an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd, Attorney General Loretta Lynch says that on Monday, the FBI will release edited transcripts of the 911 calls made by the Orlando nightclub shooter to the police during his rampage.

"What we're not going to do is further proclaim this man's pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda," Lynch said. "We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State]."

The Washington Post reported last week that the gunman made multiple phone calls while holding hostages: "The gunman who opened fire inside a nightclub here said he carried out the attack because he wanted 'Americans to stop bombing his country,' according to a witness who survived the rampage."
RCP

You just can't make this stuff up.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 20 2016 04:34 GMT
#81847
On June 20 2016 13:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
After an anxiety-inducing and divisive primary, Democrats are starting to breathe easier. Bernie Sanders, while not formally conceding to Hillary Clinton, has turned his fire on Donald Trump. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, the darling of the left before Sanders, has effusively endorsed Clinton. So at last the presumptive nominee can hope to gather in all those unhappy Bernie voters and lead a united Democratic Party in the fall, right?

Not if Dr. Jill Stein has anything to say about it.

The longtime Massachusetts environmental activist and presumptive Green Party nominee (the Green convention is not until August 4) is hungrily eyeing disgruntled Sanders voters—many of whom have been saying that even now, with the nomination all but locked up, they still won’t vote for Hillary. And Stein appears to know her audience, declaring on CNN right after the California primary that she represents “a plan B … to continue to fight that revolution.”

She is also undaunted by the Democratic coalescing around Clinton. Asked in an interview with Politico Magazine this week whether the Warren endorsement presents a problem for her, Stein suggested that the Massachusetts senator lacks the progressive credibility to sway Sanders voters: “Elizabeth Warren has very good proposals regarding Wall Street, but she really has not been leading the charge for single-payer health care … and is pretty much a war hawk in alignment with Hillary Clinton.” (Stein is not the first voice on the left to criticize Warren’s foreign policy record as militaristic.)

You may be wondering: The Green Party? What’s that—one of those European lefty outfits? And do they have a prayer of getting more than a fraction of the vote? As of today, Stein is but a blip. Eighty-seven percent of voters don’t know enough about her to register an opinion in a late May Quinnipiac poll. And Clinton’s lead over Trump appears big enough to weather a little left-wing erosion. But with a recent Bloomberg poll showing that only 55 percent of Sanders voters are ready for Hillary, the conditions exist for Stein to spark a larger exodus–if she can raise her profile and if Democrats can’t unify at next month’s convention.

And while the Greens have been under the radar in America for the past several years, they proudly claim at least 100 municipal officeholders, and from 2007 to 2015 they controlled the mayoralty of the 100,000-person city of Richmond, California. Now, like the Libertarian Party, the Green Party sees its moment in this season of widespread discontent, when both Clinton and presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump begin the general election campaign with record-high unfavorables. Stein’s platform is nearly identical to Sanders’, only more pacifist (the two diverge on the use of military drones) and more ambitious (beyond providing free college, Stein would cancel all existing student debt).

And Stein may be making big strides toward being treated like a legitimate presidential candidate. In her 2012 Green Party run, she appeared on only 36 state ballots. But her campaign’s ballot access coordinator told Counterpunch last week that “we fully expect to get on the ballot in all but three states due to our petition drives” and will then litigate the “onerous” requirements in the three remaining states in hopes of hitting 50.


Source


Jill Stein is riding Bernie's dick so hard. The Libertarian ticket is pretty respectable with two ex-governors on the ticket and they've ditched some of the party's old crazy ideas. The Green Party is a bunch of nutjobs (cancel college debt? no nuclear? anti-GMO?), and the highest position Stein has held is like city councilwoman.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 20 2016 04:41 GMT
#81848
On June 20 2016 13:32 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
In an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd, Attorney General Loretta Lynch says that on Monday, the FBI will release edited transcripts of the 911 calls made by the Orlando nightclub shooter to the police during his rampage.

"What we're not going to do is further proclaim this man's pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda," Lynch said. "We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State]."

The Washington Post reported last week that the gunman made multiple phone calls while holding hostages: "The gunman who opened fire inside a nightclub here said he carried out the attack because he wanted 'Americans to stop bombing his country,' according to a witness who survived the rampage."
RCP

You just can't make this stuff up.

It's pretty clear why they are doing it. Do you want his statements to be used as recruiting tools?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-20 05:23:30
June 20 2016 05:05 GMT
#81849
They're doing it to keep their democratic base stupid. They've actually convinced themselves that the man was just a self-hating gay. "Republicans made him do it by creating such a super hostile environment for gay people!"

Let's not pretend a few words from this gunman are recruiting tools. A distorted 911 call is not close to their usual standard of propaganda. They have countless ammunition for recruiting. Cities destroyed, governments toppled, and the dead of their brethren mixed with Islam is more than enough for recruiting. Why is it every poll I see in Arabic the Muslims always side with ISIS and the caliphate? 81% on the last al-jazeera poll I posted. 72% on this one.
+ Show Spoiler +
https://twitter.com/kasimf/status/736092411181420547


Hell, the last killer who chopped off the head of the chief of police in France this Ramadan and his wife talked about how cowardly the west is to not even name them. This isn't a link to the video but the man in the video was bragging about what cowards the west are and how afraid they were to even name them. Guess the west just fears the might of Allah too much.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/13/french-policeman-stabbed-death-paris

ISIS has way better recruiting tools than that. You should see how high budget their execution videos are. It's Hollywood level directing and editing. Some distorted 911 call won't come close to showing a bunch of Iraqi children who died in a drone strike or from the war with their dead fathers crying over them. Nor will it beat men charging into battle and winning with some Arabic chanting or calls to Allah in the background.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
June 20 2016 05:27 GMT
#81850
On June 20 2016 13:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
eh... don't believe it:

Show nested quote +
Justice Clarence Thomas, a reliable conservative vote on the Supreme Court, is mulling retirement after the presidential election, according to court watchers.

Thomas, appointed by former President George H.W. Bush and approved by the Senate after a bitter confirmation, has been considering retirement for a while and never planned to stay until he died, they said. He likes to spend summers in his RV with his wife.

His retirement would have a substantial impact on control of the court. The next president is expected to immediately replace the seat opened by the death of conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, providing a one-vote edge in the court that is currently divided 4-4.

Should Thomas leave, that slight majority would continue if Donald Trump becomes president. If it's Hillary Clinton, then she would get the chance to flip two Republican seats, giving the liberals a 6-3 majority.


Source


I can't believe its basically become a "whatever" thing that the current president is getting denied to pick a replacement.
Never Knows Best.
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
June 20 2016 05:28 GMT
#81851
All the same, one has to ask oneself what benefits would accrue from parading this person's ISIS allegiances on a pedestal.

Some potential consequences that I can see are:

1) Building up ill feeling and hatred in the general public against ISIS in particular and Islam in general. Whether you think that is a good thing or not depends on your perspective, I suppose.

I personally don't think that escalating the situation towards a wider conflict between "Western civilisation" and "Islam" is a desirable goal to have.
+ Show Spoiler +
The US and the West in general could probably march into Syria/the Middle East and occupy it in theory, but it would come at a horrific cost, both in terms of lives lost (on both sides of the equation, the civilans who would get caught up in the conflict or would only fight against the West in the event of an invasion count too) and economically it would almost certainly ruin at least the US.


2) Indicating to other lunatics that they can push whatever their agenda is and get it exposure in the media by massacring civilians.

I imagine the counter-point is that it also does no good to stick one's head in the sand and pretend the problem with ISIS et al. does not exist, or to minimise it. I do not think that anybody who is calling the shots in government is pretending that, or believes that. I do think that actions intended to de-escalate conflict are likely to look to some observes a lot like sticking one's head in the sand.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5578 Posts
June 20 2016 05:37 GMT
#81852
On June 20 2016 13:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2016 13:32 Danglars wrote:
In an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd, Attorney General Loretta Lynch says that on Monday, the FBI will release edited transcripts of the 911 calls made by the Orlando nightclub shooter to the police during his rampage.

"What we're not going to do is further proclaim this man's pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda," Lynch said. "We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State]."

The Washington Post reported last week that the gunman made multiple phone calls while holding hostages: "The gunman who opened fire inside a nightclub here said he carried out the attack because he wanted 'Americans to stop bombing his country,' according to a witness who survived the rampage."
RCP

You just can't make this stuff up.

It's pretty clear why they are doing it. Do you want his statements to be used as recruiting tools?

It would be a great rallying point for the world to come together and unify against radicalism. Being privy to this guy's lunacy would only help drive recruitment for civil society. ISIS isn't waiting for the FBI's permission to propagandize with him. Why release a transcript already to begin with if they're just going to whitewash the issues? What are we going to with knowledge of the exact words he used to ask for a plane or whatever, is this just to cover the ass of law enforcement because people were asking why they didn't storm the club earlier?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
June 20 2016 05:54 GMT
#81853
On June 20 2016 14:37 oBlade wrote:...
Being privy to this guy's lunacy would only help drive recruitment for civil society.
...

What does "recruitment for civil society" mean?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-20 05:58:37
June 20 2016 05:58 GMT
#81854
I think the not-so-inconspicuous attempt to whitewash the connections to radical Islam draw more attention than anything he might have actually said. That alone makes this a rather stupid decision.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
June 20 2016 06:01 GMT
#81855
People making decisions about the situation already made up their mind about it so not like it would be an effective method to "whitewash" it.
Never Knows Best.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 20 2016 06:48 GMT
#81856
On June 20 2016 14:28 Aquanim wrote:
All the same, one has to ask oneself what benefits would accrue from parading this person's ISIS allegiances on a pedestal.


A good argument if that is what it's truly about. But it's not about putting it on a pedestal. It's simply about the truth. A large % of people feel that we can no longer name the truth. If we can't even call a duck a duck anymore we're so beyond screwed. Then again we should have known we were screwed when some people saw that dress as white and gold. It was clearly blue and black.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Surth
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Germany456 Posts
June 20 2016 07:09 GMT
#81857
On June 20 2016 12:32 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2016 12:12 SK.Testie wrote:
Look at all the jobs women aren't fighting for equality in. Fuckin' men. Keeping women out of the boilermaker market.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


women and men have different priorities when it comes to the job market. There should not be a fight to make everything 50/50, that is just going to create too much cognitive dissonance. Just accept that we are different and let people do what they want. These quotas are creating unfair environments to begin with. Wage gap is a complete myth, after all factors are controlled women might be at a very slight disadvantage, but the whole 70 cents on the dollar is feminist propaganda, that will not refuse to die. The left loves that line because it gets them so many free feminist points.


I don't want to fight for everything being 50/50 (I say this purely as a contingency, so that you do not lump every "liberal" into the same category and then argue with me and Plansix at the same time, thinking we are the same person or something). That Women and Men have different priorities is a fact (though that does not account for everything - the people in charge of hiring may also have a bias); but WHY they have different priorities is not some kind of purely biological fact, as in, WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN, MEN LIKE PLUMBING. Many of these differences may very well come about culturally. So if we live in a culture where women are culturally nudged towards jobs that happen to be paid less, or are culturally nudged to accept less pay, then a pay gap still exists. Which is why this "when you control for all the variables except which chromosomes people have, the pay gap almost vanishes" is such bullshit, because gender also affects all of these other variables!

As for Testie's list: I'm not quite sure about the American job market, but many of the jobs at the male-oriented spectrum actually pay quite decently, whereas most of the jobs on female-oriented spectrum pay terribly. Because Nurses and Kindergarteners don't fulfil important roles in society, I suppose.


On June 20 2016 11:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Okay you do that me and my girlfriend working on her STEM degree will continue not caring because there is no huge problem equality is better today than it ever has been and in some cases it has actually reversed in the opposite direction where women have inherent advantages in getting hired over men all other factors being equal.

Please use punctuation, my brain hurts.


RE: ISIS Recruting. I still think you should stop firing missiles from 10,000 feet in the air, but that's just me.
i believe your actions dishonour Starcraft 2 LotV cybersport!
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
June 20 2016 07:34 GMT
#81858
On June 20 2016 11:56 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2016 10:56 kwizach wrote:
On June 20 2016 10:41 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Video on the wage gap myth and why Hillary is literally pandering for votes based on false premises by continuing to propagate the myth to the masses as a part of her campaign strategy

+ Show Spoiler +


The wage gap is not a myth at all. First of all, studies have shown that overall there remains a pay gap between men and women for the same jobs, even taking into account various factors like the number of hours worked, the qualifications, etc. (see for example the Invest in women, invest in America - A Comprehensive Review of Women In the U.S. Economy report by the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee). A difference remains, some of which is attributable to gender discrimination (for example in the hiring process). And with regards to STEM jobs specifically, here's another study which shows gender pay disparity in STEM jobs even after controlling for hours, age, experience, education, etc. Second, the existence of statistical differences in occupations between men and women is not at all an argument against the idea that there are differences in earnings between the two that need to be addressed. The point is precisely that social norms and representations about both genders still permeate our societies and contribute to the choices made by individuals with regards to their studies and careers. The pay gap is therefore very real, and it needs to be addressed by targeting both gender discrimination at (and to access) work and the cultural factors that play a role in the professional trajectories of men and women.


Okay you do that me and my girlfriend working on her STEM degree will continue not caring because there is no huge problem equality is better today than it ever has been and in some cases it has actually reversed in the opposite direction where women have inherent advantages in getting hired over men all other factors being equal.

The 'wage gap' is a myth. It implies something it doesn't factually represent. What it represents is something far different and just goes to show what happens when common laypeople get a hold of scholarly data far above their education and run with their own interpretation of it.

This entire post is you disregarding the arguments, facts and studies I just presented you with, and repeating the position that I just addressed (and debunked) instead. If you're not interested in actually discussing the issue and prefer sticking to your misguided narrative, you might as well say so from the start.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 20 2016 07:35 GMT
#81859
lmao

https://mobile.twitter.com/Iowa4Bernie/status/744384867874414592

defend this please
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 20 2016 07:49 GMT
#81860
in other news, evil neoliberal driven back to lair by glorious socialist revolution

https://m.rbi.org.in//scripts/BS_SpeechesView.aspx?Id=908
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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