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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Norway28561 Posts
On June 04 2016 03:30 xDaunt wrote: People who support illegal immigration are either in favor of indentured servitude or liars. There really isn't any in between. There is zero good excuse for letting people come in here without documentation.
I've always understood 'proponents of illegal immigration' (which I am not, but which I think I might be grouped as) to actually be a) proponents of illegal immigrants (does not consider them bad people despite them clearly breaking the law because we, from our best understanding, can sympathize with the desire to move away from a seemingly desperate position in the pursuit of happiness) b) more opposed to the what we would consider inhumane deportation of millions of individuals who have established their lives here than we are opposed to the precedence allowing these lawbreakers to get away with their crime would establish and c) proponents of much easier legal immigration.
I'm not disputing that there might be political forces who are more on the indentured servitude side of things, but that certainly doesn't capture the mindset of the common liberal. Anyway, at least as far as I am concerned, I do not want illegal immigration. But I also certainly don't want to uproot families who managed to get away with being illegal immigrants for several years; as far as I am concerned, if they've managed to get by without causing any problems despite being illegal immigrants, this shows that they are very likely to be just the type of people who should have been accepted via legal immigration channels. Couple that with wanting far easier and quicker legal immigration, and I think it's a logically sound position, even if you might disagree with some of the premises? Like, I think my position is kinda the same as wanting to free people who are currently in jail for marijuana while legalizing it - in the sense that in both examples you have people breaking what is considered a broken law, then we want to fix the law and disregard previous offenses.
I could agree that wanting to keep strict and cumbersome immigration laws without attempting to curtail illegal immigration might not be a politically consistent view though.
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United States42010 Posts
On June 04 2016 04:49 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote: You just linked to a conservative think tank that focuses on advocate for immigration reduction and are not really an unbiased source. There has also been some pretty reasonable criticism levied against them due to their connection to John Tanton, including some from the Wall Street Journal. Again you attack the source. Always the left will attack the source. When I could attack the source as well. CNN is biased. NYT has been completely discredited multiple times. Their comments section is insufferable. Huffpo? A complete joke by now hopefully everyone has realized. Buzzfeed / Vox / All those click-bait sites? Complete jokes that intentionally obfuscate. MSNBC completely biased. Foxnews completely biased. Every outlet has an agenda and a bias. We can always attack the source. Every single one of us on every side can attack the source. "This one is our preferred source of bullshit though so it is better." What, CNN hasn't run a false narrative before? I'd agree that CNN is in fact better than Breitbart. Hell, The Economist was rated as one of the most trusted sources by the left, and every time they post an article the top two comments are almost always criticizing it for being biased, untruthful, half baked and not telling the full story, or an outright lie. Once in a while with an actual correction that can be looked up easily. So every time you say, "a ha, that's a conservative source. Complete bullshit." And I really agree, I felt dirty linking Breitbart because I most definitely don't identify with their reader base. But even they can have very poignant pieces that skewer complete hypocrisies, lies, or just full omissions from the left. Often times these sources linked have sources of their own. Yet another reason to vote for Trump. The only candidate calling out the media for being completely full of shit. You're attacking the comments section of the New York Times? Really? You, who continually uses youtube as a source?
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Attacking sources is mostly stupid, I agree with testie. bias is everywhere. to claim objectivity is just a maneuver.
Testie, the problem with the article that you linked is not that its biased, its that it argues on the basis of a case (the fascist fuck and his wall in hungary) that is so utterly different to the US-Mexican border that it ceases to be a valid point of comparison.
By the way, if y'all are interested in walls and sovereignty: http://www.zonebooks.org/titles/BROW_WAL.html
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On June 04 2016 04:49 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote: You just linked to a conservative think tank that focuses on advocate for immigration reduction and are not really an unbiased source. There has also been some pretty reasonable criticism levied against them due to their connection to John Tanton, including some from the Wall Street Journal. Again you attack the source. Always the left will attack the source. When I could attack the source as well. CNN is biased. NYT has been completely discredited multiple times. Their comments section is insufferable. Huffpo? A complete joke by now hopefully everyone has realized. Buzzfeed / Vox / All those click-bait sites? Complete jokes that intentionally obfuscate. MSNBC completely biased. Foxnews completely biased. Every outlet has an agenda and a bias. We can always attack the source. Every single one of us on every side can attack the source. "This one is our preferred source of bullshit though so it is better." What, CNN hasn't run a false narrative before? I'd agree that CNN is in fact better than Breitbart. Hell, The Economist was rated as one of the most trusted sources by the left, and every time they post an article the top two comments are almost always criticizing it for being biased, untruthful, half baked and not telling the full story, or an outright lie. Once in a while with an actual correction that can be looked up easily. So every time you say, "a ha, that's a conservative source. Complete bullshit." And I really agree, I felt dirty linking Breitbart because I most definitely don't identify with their reader base. But even they can have very poignant pieces that skewer complete hypocrisies, lies, or just full omissions from the left. Often times these sources linked have sources of their own. Yet another reason to vote for Trump. The only candidate calling out the media for being completely full of shit. The problem with the source of that information is it is a conservative think tank created by a man who has put together a number of conservative think tanks focused on producing anti immigration data. All which have been widely critiqued as being heavily biased.
When information is presented, the first thing anyone should do is look who created it, their methods if it is worth discussion. Otherwise the argument degrades down to who can google and spam links faster.
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On June 04 2016 04:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2016 04:49 SK.Testie wrote:On June 04 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote: You just linked to a conservative think tank that focuses on advocate for immigration reduction and are not really an unbiased source. There has also been some pretty reasonable criticism levied against them due to their connection to John Tanton, including some from the Wall Street Journal. Again you attack the source. Always the left will attack the source. When I could attack the source as well. CNN is biased. NYT has been completely discredited multiple times. Their comments section is insufferable. Huffpo? A complete joke by now hopefully everyone has realized. Buzzfeed / Vox / All those click-bait sites? Complete jokes that intentionally obfuscate. MSNBC completely biased. Foxnews completely biased. Every outlet has an agenda and a bias. We can always attack the source. Every single one of us on every side can attack the source. "This one is our preferred source of bullshit though so it is better." What, CNN hasn't run a false narrative before? I'd agree that CNN is in fact better than Breitbart. Hell, The Economist was rated as one of the most trusted sources by the left, and every time they post an article the top two comments are almost always criticizing it for being biased, untruthful, half baked and not telling the full story, or an outright lie. Once in a while with an actual correction that can be looked up easily. So every time you say, "a ha, that's a conservative source. Complete bullshit." And I really agree, I felt dirty linking Breitbart because I most definitely don't identify with their reader base. But even they can have very poignant pieces that skewer complete hypocrisies, lies, or just full omissions from the left. Often times these sources linked have sources of their own. Yet another reason to vote for Trump. The only candidate calling out the media for being completely full of shit. You're attacking the comments section of the New York Times? Really? You, who continually uses youtube as a source?
Every time I've used youtube I've also given links to actual news sources. The other youtubes I linked were video evidence of Trump protesters going wild. Really don't need a source for that. Multiple people getting hit in the head from behind, even smacked in the head with a bag of rocks. And the youtubes I do link, often have links themselves to government sources. I'm not picking them willy nilly to say, 'oh this one sounds the scariest.'
And please, don't pretend the NYT comments section isn't complete ass.
On June 04 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote: When information is presented, the first thing anyone should do is look who created it, their methods if it is worth discussion. Otherwise the argument degrades down to who can google and spam links faster.
The left's favourite lie is the lie of omission. So it won't matter. How can you bring it up if they won't report on it? And since they won't report on it & thus it didn't happen, what source is the right to use? If a Trump supporter punches an agitating protester, headline for days on CNN and accusations and false narratives. Multiple people get assaulted, again hit in the face with a bag of rocks and not a peep. Not even front page material. I definitely consider massive unrest, attacking police officers, and hitting a peaceful man who didn't even retaliate afterwards with a bag of rocks as bigger news and more front page worthy than punching actual agitators who came to disrupt an event.
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Fresh off his endorsement of Donald Trump, House Speaker Paul Ryan returned to questioning the Republican nominee’s rhetoric Friday.
Unprompted by WISN radio host Vicki McKenna, Ryan criticized Trump’s racially-based attacks against the federal judge in California overseeing a civil fraud lawsuit against Trump University. Trump has argued that U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel’s Mexican heritage creates, "an inherent conflict of interest,” a position Ryan said he cannot support.
“Look, the comment about the judge the other day just was out of left field for my mind,” Ryan said. “It’s reasoning I don’t relate to. I completely disagree with the thinking behind that. And so, he clearly says and does things I don’t agree with, and I’ve had to speak up from time to time when that has occurred, and I’ll continue to do that if it’s necessary. I hope it’s not.”
Ryan wasn't the only one calling Trump out. Moments later on CNN, paid contributor and Trump surrogate Kayleigh McEnany called him "off-base to bring up the judge's heritage." McEnany added that Curiel "should not be disqualified for that alone. If he wants to bring up a bias accusation, he has every right to do that."
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) told MSNBC that Trump's remark was "crossing a line big time" while Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) would not go so far as his congressional colleagues in shunning the remarks.
"Well, what I am willing to say is that Donald Trump is certainly a different kind of candidate," McConnell told the same network, though he added, "these attacks don't serve the candidate very well at this point."
And while he used his radio interview to condemn the rhetoric, Ryan had mostly kind words for Trump, with whom he’s had extensive meetings in the weeks between the Indiana primary, when the real estate mogul clinched the GOP nomination, and Thursday’s endorsement.
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The U.S. economy created the fewest number of jobs in more than 5-1/2-years in May as manufacturing and construction employment fell sharply, which could make it harder for the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates.
Nonfarm payrolls increased by only 38,000 jobs last month, the smallest gain since September 2010, the Labor Department said on Friday. Employment gains were also restrained by a month-long strike by Verizon (VZ.N) workers, which depressed information sector payrolls by 34,000 jobs.
Underscoring the report's weakness, employers hired 59,000 fewer workers in March and April than previously reported. While the unemployment rate fell three-tenths of a percentage point to 4.7 percent in May, the lowest level since November 2007, that was because 458,000 Americans gave up the search for work.
"This is not a good report, and it may well give Fed officials second thoughts about increasing interest rates again this month or next, as some have suggested lately," said Peter Ireland, an economics professor at Boston College.
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Completely anecdotal evidence, but my family’s manufacturing business and sister’s clothing store have been extremely slow since February. But after 40 years in business, we are used to election year slow downs while everyone waits to see what happens. But this one is one of the worst.
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How about the fed just leaves interest rates the fuck alone until we clearly need to be bringing them back up. I see the allure of getting all you can, but maybe just chill a bit and be happy things are as good as they are.
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what kind of tools would you like the feds to use when the next recession hits and rates are at 0.5? negative rates? Is that something you want?
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Watch this 2 minute Trump Video where to triples down on attacking Judge Curiel for being "Mexican" (thus non-American like Trump is). I recant my objections to calling his ass fascist. He has straight up racial theories going on. Trump is not pretending to be racist to win over the rubes, this is the real Trump if you listen to him. If you vote for this steaming pile of shit, that shit will stain you for the rest of your days. All Trump voters will be made to account for this garbage.
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It is only going to get worse as the resistance to him mounts and DNC gears up. He will not handle it well.
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Public health advocates who are exasperated by the fight on Capitol Hill over how much to spend to combat the Zika virus are looking longingly at the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
FEMA has a standing fund that it can draw upon when disaster strikes. The fund is replenished when the money is spent cleaning up from hurricanes, tornadoes and other natural disasters.
If only, public health experts sigh. If only there were such a fund for health threats, officials wouldn't have to choose between fighting Zika or Ebola. They wouldn't have to run to Congress begging for money and then wait, they say.
The public agrees with them. A survey by the Annenberg Public Policy Center shows that 63 percent of people said they support having a fund that the president can draw on to deal with an epidemic without having to ask Congress.
Well, it turns out there's been just such a fund all along — the public health emergency fund. Problem is, there's no money in it.
The fund was created by Congress in 1983, with an initial appropriation of $30 million. The law says if the secretary of Health and Human Services declares a health emergency and draws from the fund, Congress is authorized to bring it back up to $30 million each year. Problem is, after the first year, Congress only put money back into the emergency piggy bank twice, in 1987 and again in 1993 in response to the outbreak of hantavirus in the West.
The fund was reauthorized by Congress in 1990 with the balance raised to $45 million, according to a report by the Congressional Research Service, but it since has been abandoned. Today the fund has $57,000 in it, according to a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services.
Today a $30 million pot of money wouldn't go very far.
President Obama requested $1.9 billion from Congress to try to combat Zika last February. Four months later, Congress is still debating how much money to allocate and where to get it.
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On June 04 2016 06:05 Plansix wrote: It is only going to get worse as the resistance to him mounts and DNC gears up. He will not handle it well.
I kind of expect him to rage quit. "I've decided that a man with as much money and potential for success as me does not need to concern himself with politics. The system is rigged and the media wants business as usual. I have chosen to aspire to greater things and have no interest in being a politician."
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As flooded parts of Texas readied for yet more rain on Friday, the search continued for four soldiers missing after their vehicle overturned during a training exercise amid flash flooding at Fort Hood on Thursday morning.
Five soldiers died in the incident at a creek on the vast base 75 miles north of Austin, Maj Gen John Uberti said at a media briefing on Friday, while three others were injured when the truck overturned on a part of a road not normally inundated by water during heavy rains.
“Yesterday we suffered a tragic accident where we lost five of our soldiers. Due to the quick action of some other soldiers that were training we were able to rescue three soldiers who are in stable condition [at a hospital on site] and will potentially be released later today,” Uberti said.
“Our priority has been, since the first report of this incident, and continues to be, the search for our four missing team-mates.”
Heavy rains have pounded the state for days and more storms are expected over the weekend. Governor Greg Abbott declared a state of disaster in 31 counties on Wednesday. Many counties, several in the Houston region, remain under a flash flood watch until Saturday afternoon.
The National Weather Service also maintained a flash flood watch for north and central Texas through Friday evening.
Some of the worst flooding is in Fort Bend County, south-west of Houston. It is home to more than 700,000 people, many living in recently built subdivisions close to the Brazos river.
The Fort Bend County office of emergency management said on its website that the rains caused the Brazos to rise above 53ft, its highest level for 103 years. On Thursday it reached almost 55ft, 10ft above flood stage.
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On June 04 2016 06:01 CorsairHero wrote: what kind of tools would you like the feds to use when the next recession hits and rates are at 0.5? negative rates? Is that something you want?
I can't answer what the best kind of tool the fed should use, but slowing the economy now (raising rates) so there's something to do when the economy slows down later isn't the most brilliant of strategies, and if you think raising rates now won't affect the economy, you probably shouldn't think lowering them later will either.
The fed is thinking of raising now to head off (what they perceive as incoming) inflation, not to have a tool for future recessions.
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A national effort to fix wage stagnation would likely be more effective. More money means more spending. But you don’t get those instant results like you do through lending.
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On June 04 2016 04:36 biology]major wrote: The wall represents a much needed giant middle finger to mexico, for taking advantage of our weakness for so many years. lmao this is some single digit iq shit
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