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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3841

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 14:46 GMT
#76801
On May 18 2016 23:32 SolaR- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.


Hardly. And i didn't decide, I said it was likely.

If you understand how simple most humans think, it really isn't that hard to fathom

This is one of those cases where cynicism is masquerading as wisdom. Your lack of faith in people’s decision making abilities does not prove anything.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
May 18 2016 14:47 GMT
#76802
Superficial statement 1: "I voted for President Obama because he is black."

Superficial statement 2: "[I] think it is likely that a lot of white and black people supported Obama just because he [is] black."

Though one is slightly more abstract, both statements rely on the fundamental premise that President Obama's blackness, a superficial characteristic, should be regarded as a figurative electoral concern relative to his '08 and '12 victories. Granted, it'd be difficult to argue that Obama's race played little or no role in his being elected, but in terms of superficiality, a spade is a spade.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 14:53:28
May 18 2016 14:52 GMT
#76803
On May 18 2016 23:47 farvacola wrote:
Superficial statement 1: "I voted for President Obama because he is black."

Superficial statement 2: "[I] think it is likely that a lot of white and black people supported Obama just because he [is] black."

Though one is slightly more abstract, both statements rely on the fundamental premise that President Obama's blackness, a superficial characteristic, should be regarded as a figurative electoral concern relative to his '08 and '12 victories. Granted, it'd be difficult to argue that Obama's race played little or no role in his being elected, but in terms of superficiality, a spade is a spade.



It's not superficial in that im thinking about it. I am not making any decisions about that reasoning. People have thoughts like that all the time whether it is illogical or logical. The problem is when people make a very important decision from that thinkinf, for example voting in a presidential election.

I even prefaced that it was anecdotal. I was just trying to shed light on a perspective.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 18 2016 14:53 GMT
#76804
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
May 18 2016 15:28 GMT
#76805
Damn it turns out the Sanders campaign did in fact encourage their supporters to pull that shit in Nevada. And they wonder why people think the Bern outs are going to turn Phildelphia into a shit show

www.reddit.com
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 18 2016 15:39 GMT
#76806
The Obama administration is shoveling out regulations nearly one-third faster in its final year than during the previous three — all to beat a May 23 deadline to prevent a President Donald Trump from overturning them.

A total of 195 regulations have been pushed through since Jan. 1 at an estimated cost of $69.5 billion to the nation’s businesses, according to the conservative American Action Forum. One of the most significant — a sweeping rule that will extend overtime pay to more than four million people without any input from Congress — was released Tuesday night.

“This regulatory onslaught has only gotten worse in the administration’s final months,” complained Rep. John Kline (R.-Minn.), who chairs the House committee on Education and the Workforce.

The whoosh of final rules on everything from e-cigarette use to greenhouse gas emissions exceeds the pace during the same period in the Clinton administration. The goal is to deny Trump the opportunity to kill those regulations under an expedited process should he be elected president and Congress remain in Republican control.

Obama has used his regulatory authority in the face of a hostile Congress to edge the country closer toward the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, for instance, by readying the first methane regulation of the oil and gas industry. He’s also pushing the country leftward on a long-sought labor wish list by enacting a rule protecting workers from silica dust as well as by broadening access to overtime pay — measures that Democrats have been unable to push through a Republican-controlled Congress. The rules may seem arcane in many cases, but their impact is often large, prompting fierce (and in most instances unsuccessful) resistance from lawmakers.

Ever since the nation’s second president John Adams, lame-duck presidents have used their last days to impose their agendas on successors. But only since George W. Bush has there been a rush to complete regulations fully six months before Election Day.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 18 2016 15:52 GMT
#76807
On May 19 2016 00:28 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Damn it turns out the Sanders campaign did in fact encourage their supporters to pull that shit in Nevada. And they wonder why people think the Bern outs are going to turn Phildelphia into a shit show

www.reddit.com


Audio recordings. I wonder if the campaign just flat out denies it's actually her? I mean, if it is her, this is huge. It directly shows Bernie to either be a liar or out of control of his campaign. This audio recording directly conflicts with his statement.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
May 18 2016 16:03 GMT
#76808
i feel like bernie is a guy who feeds off energy... too bad so much of it is bad energy
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 18 2016 16:22 GMT
#76809
On May 19 2016 00:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Obama administration is shoveling out regulations nearly one-third faster in its final year than during the previous three — all to beat a May 23 deadline to prevent a President Donald Trump from overturning them.

A total of 195 regulations have been pushed through since Jan. 1 at an estimated cost of $69.5 billion to the nation’s businesses, according to the conservative American Action Forum. One of the most significant — a sweeping rule that will extend overtime pay to more than four million people without any input from Congress — was released Tuesday night.

“This regulatory onslaught has only gotten worse in the administration’s final months,” complained Rep. John Kline (R.-Minn.), who chairs the House committee on Education and the Workforce.

The whoosh of final rules on everything from e-cigarette use to greenhouse gas emissions exceeds the pace during the same period in the Clinton administration. The goal is to deny Trump the opportunity to kill those regulations under an expedited process should he be elected president and Congress remain in Republican control.

Obama has used his regulatory authority in the face of a hostile Congress to edge the country closer toward the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, for instance, by readying the first methane regulation of the oil and gas industry. He’s also pushing the country leftward on a long-sought labor wish list by enacting a rule protecting workers from silica dust as well as by broadening access to overtime pay — measures that Democrats have been unable to push through a Republican-controlled Congress. The rules may seem arcane in many cases, but their impact is often large, prompting fierce (and in most instances unsuccessful) resistance from lawmakers.

Ever since the nation’s second president John Adams, lame-duck presidents have used their last days to impose their agendas on successors. But only since George W. Bush has there been a rush to complete regulations fully six months before Election Day.


Source


While its probably not applicable to this, its not the number of regulations (or executive orders) issued, its the content. Obama can sign 1000 executive orders telling the directors of each agency to buy only black and red (no more blue!) pens and have the EPA issue dozens of regulations related to waterfowl present on government lands, and there would be no issue. The problem is that these regs are typically high impact and (often in 9-0, 8-1 decisions) are shown to have exceeded his statutory authorization.
Freeeeeeedom
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
May 18 2016 16:28 GMT
#76810
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Source? I would think one of the biggest drivers of both his 2008 and 2012 victories were the Republicans putting up extraordinarily weak candidates along with a lunatic VP in 2008. For me personally, my decision was made for me in both years and I found myself saying "Obama is only OK, but jesus the Republicans are so much worse." In 2008, I was planning on giving McCain a shot until he picked up Palin.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 16:30:35
May 18 2016 16:29 GMT
#76811
IMHO, we should amend the constitution so that there can be inferior legislative bodies; then we can move some of the regulatory work from the executive to the legislative branch.
Right now, only the judiciary and executive get to have inferior bodies to help with the work; the legislative just doesn't get to.


On obama: i'd say alot of Obama's '08 victory was a WE HATE BUSH response. that + his rhetoric/campaigning was quite good.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 16:35 GMT
#76812
In theory, congress should be handling a lot of these issues. But congress isn’t functioning and hasn’t for about 8 years. Which is part of how government works and why we have elections. Hopefully the next congress will remove some of the rules put in place to allow the majority party to grid lock the entire systems.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45925 Posts
May 18 2016 16:44 GMT
#76813
On May 19 2016 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Source? I would think one of the biggest drivers of both his 2008 and 2012 victories were the Republicans putting up extraordinarily weak candidates along with a lunatic VP in 2008. For me personally, my decision was made for me in both years and I found myself saying "Obama is only OK, but jesus the Republicans are so much worse." In 2008, I was planning on giving McCain a shot until he picked up Palin.


I agree; it was largely a "lesser of two evils" issue for me. I didn't hate (or love) Obama, but it was a very easy decision for me to make in the general election, between him and McCain/ Romney.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 16:54:24
May 18 2016 16:50 GMT
#76814
Certainly the level of intelligence in this thread easily surpasses the intelligence of the average voter. Whether I agree with your not, you're smart gents

Im sure you guys have legtimate reasons for why you voted for someone. I was just trying to argue that most people vote haphazardly, in this case the obama 2008 election.

Fyi my vote record:

2008: mccain(didnt like palin though)
2012: gary johnson
2016: yuuuuge
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 18 2016 17:02 GMT
#76815
On May 19 2016 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Source? I would think one of the biggest drivers of both his 2008 and 2012 victories were the Republicans putting up extraordinarily weak candidates along with a lunatic VP in 2008. For me personally, my decision was made for me in both years and I found myself saying "Obama is only OK, but jesus the Republicans are so much worse." In 2008, I was planning on giving McCain a shot until he picked up Palin.

What do you mean "source?" That 2008 election was retardedly hyped for the very reasons that I set forth. How can anyone forget it? It was a media and pop culture phenomenon. The republicans probably weren't going to win anyway with all of the electoral headwinds that they were facing that year. But you can't possibly overlook the fact that Obama was awarded a fucking Nobel Peace Prize on the merits of teleprompted speeches.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 18 2016 17:14 GMT
#76816
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has sold off its entire holding in oil giant BP, in a move welcomed by fossil fuel divestment campaigners.

Bill Gates has called the selling off of coal, oil and gas stocks a “false solution” to climate change, but the known investments of his foundation in major fossil fuel companies has fallen by 85% since 2014.

The foundation, which has spent many billions of dollars improving global health, sold its $187m stake in BP between September and December 2015, according to recent regulatory filings to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

It had previously dumped its entire $824m holding in ExxonMobil. BP posted a record $6.5bn annual loss in February while ExxonMobil is under investigation about whether it lied in the past to investors about the threat of climate change.

The Guardian’s Keep it in the Ground campaign has called on the Gates foundation to divest its $40bn endowment from fossil fuels.

Climate change poses the greatest threat to health in the 21st century, according to doctors, and to avoid catastrophic impacts, most known fossil fuel reserves must be kept in the ground. If the world’s governments succeed as promised and halt global warming, those reserves could become worthless, and divestment campaigners argue there are both financial and moral reasons for divestment.

“We are thrilled that the Gates foundation continues to divest from fossil fuel stocks, but it’s time to divest the rest. Investing in oil companies is completely inconsistent with the Gates foundation mission to ensure that everybody has the chance to live a healthy, productive life,” said Alec Connon, an organiser for the Gates Divest campaign, a coalition of scores of social justice groups, politicians and faith leaders in Washington State, where the Foundation is based.

Mike McGinn, who as mayor of Seattle in 2013 was the first mayor to commit a city to divestment, said: “They’re moving their financial capital - now it’s time to use their moral capital and publicly commit to divestment.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 18 2016 17:17 GMT
#76817
Also, anyone who is anyone knows that the Democratic 2008 primary was the only race that mattered. Bush was wildly unpopular, and there was an economic crash looming. Anyone who says McCain was a bad candidate, or Palin a loon is missing the forest for the trees. Whether Obama's race aided him in defeating Hillary is the question, as Democratic primary voters knew (or should have known) they were choosing the next POTUS.
Freeeeeeedom
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 17:19 GMT
#76818
On May 19 2016 02:02 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2016 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Source? I would think one of the biggest drivers of both his 2008 and 2012 victories were the Republicans putting up extraordinarily weak candidates along with a lunatic VP in 2008. For me personally, my decision was made for me in both years and I found myself saying "Obama is only OK, but jesus the Republicans are so much worse." In 2008, I was planning on giving McCain a shot until he picked up Palin.

What do you mean "source?" That 2008 election was retardedly hyped for the very reasons that I set forth. How can anyone forget it? It was a media and pop culture phenomenon. The republicans probably weren't going to win anyway with all of the electoral headwinds that they were facing that year. But you can't possibly overlook the fact that Obama was awarded a fucking Nobel Peace Prize on the merits of teleprompted speeches.

The 2008 election was lost by the Republicans as much as it was won by Obama. They ran a terrible VP, crippled McCain on his more moderate issues by pulling him right in the general election, where independents were tired of the right. And they failed to separate themselves from the Bush administration or prove that things were going to be any different. The GOP across the board got crushed during that election.

And then the Dems got slammed in the mid term because they can't figure out how to get voters out without a general election.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
May 18 2016 17:30 GMT
#76819
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Don't forget his strong push to get the moderate vote through his constantly talking about reaching out to conservatives in order to entwine conservative and liberal ideas into platforms that both sides could support. That was really the biggest thing that pushed his appeal.
Naracs_Duc
Profile Joined August 2015
746 Posts
May 18 2016 17:33 GMT
#76820
On May 19 2016 02:19 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2016 02:02 xDaunt wrote:
On May 19 2016 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:53 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.

Two of the biggest drivers of Obama's 2008 victory were his race and and his vacuous, soaring rhetoric. You're giving the voters a little too much credit.


Source? I would think one of the biggest drivers of both his 2008 and 2012 victories were the Republicans putting up extraordinarily weak candidates along with a lunatic VP in 2008. For me personally, my decision was made for me in both years and I found myself saying "Obama is only OK, but jesus the Republicans are so much worse." In 2008, I was planning on giving McCain a shot until he picked up Palin.

What do you mean "source?" That 2008 election was retardedly hyped for the very reasons that I set forth. How can anyone forget it? It was a media and pop culture phenomenon. The republicans probably weren't going to win anyway with all of the electoral headwinds that they were facing that year. But you can't possibly overlook the fact that Obama was awarded a fucking Nobel Peace Prize on the merits of teleprompted speeches.

The 2008 election was lost by the Republicans as much as it was won by Obama. They ran a terrible VP, crippled McCain on his more moderate issues by pulling him right in the general election, where independents were tired of the right. And they failed to separate themselves from the Bush administration or prove that things were going to be any different. The GOP across the board got crushed during that election.

And then the Dems got slammed in the mid term because they can't figure out how to get voters out without a general election.


The Dems didn't show up because they thought Obama was just joking about his reach across the aisle policy. When the ACA and the Iraq withdrawal was not just pure far left liberal ideals and actually tried to take into account multiple aspects of how both would affect the economy and future voters, he actually borrowed some right wing ideas just like he promised.

Liberal voters are very fickle.
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