• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:51
CEST 12:51
KST 19:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced22BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 680 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3840

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 3838 3839 3840 3841 3842 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 13:23 GMT
#76781
On May 18 2016 22:11 Velr wrote:
So, your the guy that still reads Testies posts? :D


I think it was very telling when GH, a guy who is always willing to talk about racism in the US, was like “Nah, I’m good with this. This debate will not improve my life” when it came to testie’s posts.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44312 Posts
May 18 2016 13:27 GMT
#76782
On May 18 2016 22:11 Velr wrote:
So, your the guy that still reads Testies posts? :D


I'm masochistic, I guess
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44312 Posts
May 18 2016 13:33 GMT
#76783
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of instituionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21668 Posts
May 18 2016 13:34 GMT
#76784
On May 18 2016 22:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Millions more American workers will soon be eligible for overtime pay under a rule being finalized Wednesday by the Labor Department.

The rule says anyone who makes less than $47,476 per year must receive time-and-a-half pay for hours worked beyond 40 hours a week. That's roughly double the current threshold of $23,660.

The measure is one of the most sweeping moves the Obama administration has made so far in its efforts to boost slow-growing incomes. But it's sure to face opposition from some business owners.

According to the Labor Department, the higher income threshold will make 4.2 million salaried workers newly eligible for overtime pay. The rule could also benefit millions of others who are already technically eligible but not receiving overtime.

"Our whole mission here is about strengthening and growing the middle class," Labor Secretary Tom Perez told NPR. "In order to do that, we need to ensure that middle class jobs pay middle class wages."

The rule change is authorized under New Deal-era legislation called the Fair Labor Standards Act. As recently as 1975, more than 60 percent of salaried workers were eligible for overtime. Inflation and regulatory changes under the George W. Bush Administration eroded that protection, and today, only about 7 percent of salaried workers receive time and a half when they work extra hours. Managers at many retail stores and fast food restaurants making as little as $24,000 have not been eligible for overtime, even when they work 60 or 70 hours a week.


Source

By what insanity is overtime linked to your wage?
Overtime is hours worked outside of your contracted hours Oo
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 13:38 GMT
#76785
On May 18 2016 22:34 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Millions more American workers will soon be eligible for overtime pay under a rule being finalized Wednesday by the Labor Department.

The rule says anyone who makes less than $47,476 per year must receive time-and-a-half pay for hours worked beyond 40 hours a week. That's roughly double the current threshold of $23,660.

The measure is one of the most sweeping moves the Obama administration has made so far in its efforts to boost slow-growing incomes. But it's sure to face opposition from some business owners.

According to the Labor Department, the higher income threshold will make 4.2 million salaried workers newly eligible for overtime pay. The rule could also benefit millions of others who are already technically eligible but not receiving overtime.

"Our whole mission here is about strengthening and growing the middle class," Labor Secretary Tom Perez told NPR. "In order to do that, we need to ensure that middle class jobs pay middle class wages."

The rule change is authorized under New Deal-era legislation called the Fair Labor Standards Act. As recently as 1975, more than 60 percent of salaried workers were eligible for overtime. Inflation and regulatory changes under the George W. Bush Administration eroded that protection, and today, only about 7 percent of salaried workers receive time and a half when they work extra hours. Managers at many retail stores and fast food restaurants making as little as $24,000 have not been eligible for overtime, even when they work 60 or 70 hours a week.


Source

By what insanity is overtime linked to your wage?
Overtime is hours worked outside of your contracted hours Oo

To be fair, most business pay overtime, even if you made more than 24K a year. It just wasn’t mandated nationally. Many state laws also address it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
May 18 2016 13:39 GMT
#76786
I'm often in the position of understanding both sides of an arguement which always leads me to an uncomfortable position of uncertainty. Testie is thinking about these issues and they are supported by logic. Whether you agree with him or not, he at least provides some interesting discourse instead of the same circle jerk of ideas presented here. He adds flavor if you will.

I think you guys are just judging him as ignorant/bigot or whatever instead of understanding that he is just questioning the status quo. I think it is important to have an honest discussion about these issues and allow a back and forth exchange of ideas.

Practice what that narcas guy preached a few pages back. I think his post was pretty insightful.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
May 18 2016 13:44 GMT
#76787
On May 18 2016 22:38 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:34 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 18 2016 22:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Millions more American workers will soon be eligible for overtime pay under a rule being finalized Wednesday by the Labor Department.

The rule says anyone who makes less than $47,476 per year must receive time-and-a-half pay for hours worked beyond 40 hours a week. That's roughly double the current threshold of $23,660.

The measure is one of the most sweeping moves the Obama administration has made so far in its efforts to boost slow-growing incomes. But it's sure to face opposition from some business owners.

According to the Labor Department, the higher income threshold will make 4.2 million salaried workers newly eligible for overtime pay. The rule could also benefit millions of others who are already technically eligible but not receiving overtime.

"Our whole mission here is about strengthening and growing the middle class," Labor Secretary Tom Perez told NPR. "In order to do that, we need to ensure that middle class jobs pay middle class wages."

The rule change is authorized under New Deal-era legislation called the Fair Labor Standards Act. As recently as 1975, more than 60 percent of salaried workers were eligible for overtime. Inflation and regulatory changes under the George W. Bush Administration eroded that protection, and today, only about 7 percent of salaried workers receive time and a half when they work extra hours. Managers at many retail stores and fast food restaurants making as little as $24,000 have not been eligible for overtime, even when they work 60 or 70 hours a week.


Source

By what insanity is overtime linked to your wage?
Overtime is hours worked outside of your contracted hours Oo

To be fair, most business pay overtime, even if you made more than 24K a year. It just wasn’t mandated nationally. Many state laws also address it.


Most lower paying jobs tend to be the ones with overtime.

I work a white collar job, make a pretty good salary but I don't think I've ever worked only 40 hours a week. No overtime.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
May 18 2016 13:53 GMT
#76788
When I was banned I had to read about them wanting to dismantle the patriarchy and no one was here to challenge them... I swear I saw one perpetuate the completely debunked wage gap myth. It was truly horrifying.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
May 18 2016 14:04 GMT
#76789
On May 18 2016 22:53 SK.Testie wrote:
When I was banned I had to read about them wanting to dismantle the patriarchy and no one was here to challenge them... I swear I saw one perpetuate the completely debunked wage gap myth. It was truly horrifying.

First of all, studies have shown that overall there remains a pay gap between men and women for the same jobs, even taking into account various factors like the number of hours worked, the qualifications, etc. (see for example the Invest in women, invest in America - A Comprehensive Review of Women In the U.S. Economy report by the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee). A difference remains, some of which is attributable to gender discrimination (for example in the hiring process). And with regards to STEM jobs specifically, here's another study which shows gender pay disparity in STEM jobs even after controlling for hours, age, experience, education, etc.
Second, the existence of statistical differences in occupations between men and women is not at all an argument against the idea that there are differences in earnings between the two that need to be addressed. The point is precisely that social norms and representations about both genders still permeate our societies and contribute to the choices made by individuals with regards to their studies and careers. The pay gap is therefore very real, and it needs to be addressed by targeting both gender discrimination at (and to access) work and the cultural factors that play a role in the professional trajectories of men and women.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 14:06 GMT
#76790
On May 18 2016 22:39 SolaR- wrote:
I'm often in the position of understanding both sides of an arguement which always leads me to an uncomfortable position of uncertainty. Testie is thinking about these issues and they are supported by logic. Whether you agree with him or not, he at least provides some interesting discourse instead of the same circle jerk of ideas presented here. He adds flavor if you will.

I think you guys are just judging him as ignorant/bigot or whatever instead of understanding that he is just questioning the status quo. I think it is important to have an honest discussion about these issues and allow a back and forth exchange of ideas.

Practice what that narcas guy preached a few pages back. I think his post was pretty insightful.

It is a matter of information and how willing people are to engage well debated subjects. Anyone who has read up on the last 50 years of US politics would know why democrats pull in 90% of the black vote in national elections. Having to teach that to prove black voters did not vote for Obama simply because he is black is something people were willing to do, but it more of a history lesson than a debate.

Though it was interesting for some folks who are not from the US, I guess.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
May 18 2016 14:06 GMT
#76791
On May 18 2016 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of institutionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?


If it's racist, then how is it even remotely acceptable? Especially if it's rhetoric. Rhetoric being defined as (in the context I'm using it in, maybe this is the wrong definition) language which is used to influence people in a way which may or may not be reasonable.

Rhetoric should be frowned upon, in fact many posters in this thread were actively denouncing Sanders' campaign as one based on rhetoric (attacking Clinton and the "institutions").

So to me, rhetoric cannot be realistically condoned, especially the kind which is playing on racial indentity. If it's just rhetoric, then it probably fuels racism itself more than anything.

Not appealing to a group based on color of their skin would be a sign of candidate quality, in my opinion.
maru lover forever
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
May 18 2016 14:17 GMT
#76792
On May 18 2016 23:04 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:53 SK.Testie wrote:
When I was banned I had to read about them wanting to dismantle the patriarchy and no one was here to challenge them... I swear I saw one perpetuate the completely debunked wage gap myth. It was truly horrifying.

First of all, studies have shown that overall there remains a pay gap between men and women for the same jobs, even taking into account various factors like the number of hours worked, the qualifications, etc. (see for example the Invest in women, invest in America - A Comprehensive Review of Women In the U.S. Economy report by the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee). A difference remains, some of which is attributable to gender discrimination (for example in the hiring process). And with regards to STEM jobs specifically, here's another study which shows gender pay disparity in STEM jobs even after controlling for hours, age, experience, education, etc.
Second, the existence of statistical differences in occupations between men and women is not at all an argument against the idea that there are differences in earnings between the two that need to be addressed. The point is precisely that social norms and representations about both genders still permeate our societies and contribute to the choices made by individuals with regards to their studies and careers. The pay gap is therefore very real, and it needs to be addressed by targeting both gender discrimination at (and to access) work and the cultural factors that play a role in the professional trajectories of men and women.


The gap is significantly smaller than the oft quoted number when you control for all those factors though, and I don't think it helps the cause by distorting it

There is also selection going on with regards to gender for certain jobs similar to what Trevor Noah said about black comedians not applying for the Daily Show, though that's a separate piece of the gender gap
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44312 Posts
May 18 2016 14:24 GMT
#76793
On May 18 2016 23:04 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:53 SK.Testie wrote:
When I was banned I had to read about them wanting to dismantle the patriarchy and no one was here to challenge them... I swear I saw one perpetuate the completely debunked wage gap myth. It was truly horrifying.

First of all, studies have shown that overall there remains a pay gap between men and women for the same jobs, even taking into account various factors like the number of hours worked, the qualifications, etc. (see for example the Invest in women, invest in America - A Comprehensive Review of Women In the U.S. Economy report by the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee). A difference remains, some of which is attributable to gender discrimination (for example in the hiring process). And with regards to STEM jobs specifically, here's another study which shows gender pay disparity in STEM jobs even after controlling for hours, age, experience, education, etc.
Second, the existence of statistical differences in occupations between men and women is not at all an argument against the idea that there are differences in earnings between the two that need to be addressed. The point is precisely that social norms and representations about both genders still permeate our societies and contribute to the choices made by individuals with regards to their studies and careers. The pay gap is therefore very real, and it needs to be addressed by targeting both gender discrimination at (and to access) work and the cultural factors that play a role in the professional trajectories of men and women.


You fell for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 14:27:18
May 18 2016 14:26 GMT
#76794
On May 18 2016 23:06 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:39 SolaR- wrote:
I'm often in the position of understanding both sides of an arguement which always leads me to an uncomfortable position of uncertainty. Testie is thinking about these issues and they are supported by logic. Whether you agree with him or not, he at least provides some interesting discourse instead of the same circle jerk of ideas presented here. He adds flavor if you will.

I think you guys are just judging him as ignorant/bigot or whatever instead of understanding that he is just questioning the status quo. I think it is important to have an honest discussion about these issues and allow a back and forth exchange of ideas.

Practice what that narcas guy preached a few pages back. I think his post was pretty insightful.

It is a matter of information and how willing people are to engage well debated subjects. Anyone who has read up on the last 50 years of US politics would know why democrats pull in 90% of the black vote in national elections. Having to teach that to prove black voters did not vote for Obama simply because he is black is something people were willing to do, but it more of a history lesson than a debate.

Though it was interesting for some folks who are not from the US, I guess.


Perhaps those statistics that you presented cannot be argued. However, the main point is still up for debate, and I do not think it is illogical to suggest that race was a contributing factor on why Obama was elected.

I know this is anecdotal evidence but it at least sheds some light on the topic. During the 2008 election, i had many white friends who were voting for Obama explicitly because he was black. They thought it would be neat to have the first African American president. While I agreed that it would be neat, I still affirmed that a candidate should soley be judged on his\hers merits and character. That your ability to relate to them on key issues should hold my water.

Unfortunately, most people really are not that smart, and are easily swayed by superficial aspects such as race. So yeah, i think it is likely that a lot of white and black people supported Obama just because he was black.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 18 2016 14:30 GMT
#76795
On May 18 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of institutionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?


If it's racist, then how is it even remotely acceptable? Especially if it's rhetoric. Rhetoric being defined as (in the context I'm using it in, maybe this is the wrong definition) language which is used to influence people in a way which may or may not be reasonable.

Rhetoric should be frowned upon, in fact many posters in this thread were actively denouncing Sanders' campaign as one based on rhetoric (attacking Clinton and the "institutions").

So to me, rhetoric cannot be realistically condoned, especially the kind which is playing on racial indentity. If it's just rhetoric, then it probably fuels racism itself more than anything.

Not appealing to a group based on color of their skin would be a sign of candidate quality, in my opinion.

The issue is that politics isn’t color blind or race neutral for any of us. There are issues that face blacks the same way there are issues that face poor children or people who are blind. They are a demographic that faces specific issues that other groups do not face. And the bar to get those votes is very low currently, because only one party is listening to those issues nationally. On the state and local level, that changes very quickly.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 14:31:17
May 18 2016 14:30 GMT
#76796
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 14:38:06
May 18 2016 14:32 GMT
#76797
On May 18 2016 23:30 farvacola wrote:
Asserting that a black president was elected by "a lot of white and black people" on the basis of race is just as superficial as voting for a president because of his race.


Hardly. And i didn't decide, I said it was likely.

If you understand how simple most humans think, it really isn't that hard to fathom
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44312 Posts
May 18 2016 14:33 GMT
#76798
On May 18 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of institutionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?


If it's racist, then how is it even remotely acceptable? Especially if it's rhetoric. Rhetoric being defined as (in the context I'm using it in, maybe this is the wrong definition) language which is used to influence people in a way which may or may not be reasonable.

Rhetoric should be frowned upon, in fact many posters in this thread were actively denouncing Sanders' campaign as one based on rhetoric (attacking Clinton and the "institutions").

So to me, rhetoric cannot be realistically condoned, especially the kind which is playing on racial indentity. If it's just rhetoric, then it probably fuels racism itself more than anything.

Not appealing to a group based on color of their skin would be a sign of candidate quality, in my opinion.


That's why I'm hesitant to really call it racism. When a politician says "Here's what I'll do for blacks and Hispanics, here's what I'll do for women, here's what I'll do for LGBT", the politician is acknowledging that different groups have different needs, and may also be pandering to certain groups for votes. Is it discrimination? Technically I guess so, but sometimes this rhetoric is a good thing (because different demographics do have different needs), so I'd rather use a term that isn't inherently negative. I feel like this is an instance where trying to label this as *something* can remove some important context.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-18 14:39:22
May 18 2016 14:34 GMT
#76799
On May 18 2016 23:30 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
On May 18 2016 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of institutionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?


If it's racist, then how is it even remotely acceptable? Especially if it's rhetoric. Rhetoric being defined as (in the context I'm using it in, maybe this is the wrong definition) language which is used to influence people in a way which may or may not be reasonable.

Rhetoric should be frowned upon, in fact many posters in this thread were actively denouncing Sanders' campaign as one based on rhetoric (attacking Clinton and the "institutions").

So to me, rhetoric cannot be realistically condoned, especially the kind which is playing on racial indentity. If it's just rhetoric, then it probably fuels racism itself more than anything.

Not appealing to a group based on color of their skin would be a sign of candidate quality, in my opinion.

The issue is that politics isn’t color blind or race neutral for any of us. There are issues that face blacks the same way there are issues that face poor children or people who are blind. They are a demographic that faces specific issues that other groups do not face. And the bar to get those votes is very low currently, because only one party is listening to those issues nationally. On the state and local level, that changes very quickly.


Well, what you're describing isn't really rhetoric anymore, you're talking about actual issues.

@Darkplasmaball

Well that goes along with this post of mine. There's a difference between institutionalized racism and policies which deal racism.

Acknowledging that some ethnic groups have issues which others do not isn't quite racism, it's addressing the issue of racism. I think there's a difference between different treatment for people and making sure that people get the same treatment.

Random, baseless example: "black people get a higher minimum wage" would be institutionalized racism (campaigning with those arguments would be rhetoric), but realizing that many black people live in poverty and thus implementing policies to help with poverty is not.
maru lover forever
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
May 18 2016 14:46 GMT
#76800
On May 18 2016 23:30 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
On May 18 2016 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 18 2016 20:58 Incognoto wrote:
Isn't appealing to white or black voters a form of institutionalized racism, lol?

I can't think of any government policy which legitimately favors white people or black people?

E: the discussion was a few pages back, maybe i'm too late


I think technically that might be racist, but I'm not sure if this specific focusing on one race over another during a campaign deserves the level of negative connotation commonly associated with more quintessential examples of racism. In politics, the way you win more votes is by appealing to those on the fence who could be swayed either way. If you're already popular with a certain demographic of voters, and a different demographic is sitting on the fence, it makes sense to adjust your rhetoric so that it may be aimed more towards the group on the fence. Is that racism? Ehhhhhhh maybe?


If it's racist, then how is it even remotely acceptable? Especially if it's rhetoric. Rhetoric being defined as (in the context I'm using it in, maybe this is the wrong definition) language which is used to influence people in a way which may or may not be reasonable.

Rhetoric should be frowned upon, in fact many posters in this thread were actively denouncing Sanders' campaign as one based on rhetoric (attacking Clinton and the "institutions").

So to me, rhetoric cannot be realistically condoned, especially the kind which is playing on racial indentity. If it's just rhetoric, then it probably fuels racism itself more than anything.

Not appealing to a group based on color of their skin would be a sign of candidate quality, in my opinion.

The issue is that politics isn’t color blind or race neutral for any of us. There are issues that face blacks the same way there are issues that face poor children or people who are blind. They are a demographic that faces specific issues that other groups do not face. And the bar to get those votes is very low currently, because only one party is listening to those issues nationally. On the state and local level, that changes very quickly.


I can agree that what I said holds true for any candidate or demographic.
Prev 1 3838 3839 3840 3841 3842 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Spirit vs GeraldLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
ComeBackTV 1008
RotterdaM915
IndyStarCraft 411
CranKy Ducklings147
Rex128
3DClanTV 89
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 915
IndyStarCraft 411
Rex 123
ProTech64
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 9915
Hyuk 3472
Hyun 1097
firebathero 816
Barracks 676
Mini 572
BeSt 502
Larva 476
EffOrt 309
Stork 226
[ Show more ]
Last 130
Noble 120
sorry 83
Soulkey 77
ZerO 68
Free 51
zelot 49
scan(afreeca) 30
Shinee 29
Sharp 21
soO 21
Movie 17
NaDa 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
yabsab 9
sSak 8
Sacsri 8
Bale 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe600
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss618
Stewie2K480
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor265
Other Games
gofns14851
Beastyqt577
B2W.Neo148
DeMusliM90
SortOf74
ZerO(Twitch)17
QueenE0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH344
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1334
• WagamamaTV331
• lizZardDota2254
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 10m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 10m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.