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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3714

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 03:05:10
May 02 2016 02:57 GMT
#74261
As this dystopian election campaign has unfolded, my mind keeps being tugged by a passage in Plato’s Republic. It has unsettled — even surprised — me from the moment I first read it in graduate school. The passage is from the part of the dialogue where Socrates and his friends are talking about the nature of different political systems, how they change over time, and how one can slowly evolve into another. And Socrates seemed pretty clear on one sobering point: that “tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy.” What did Plato mean by that? Democracy, for him, I discovered, was a political system of maximal freedom and equality, where every lifestyle is allowed and public offices are filled by a lottery. And the longer a democracy lasted, Plato argued, the more democratic it would become. Its freedoms would multiply; its equality spread. Deference to any sort of authority would wither; tolerance of any kind of inequality would come under intense threat; and multiculturalism and sexual freedom would create a city or a country like “a many-colored cloak decorated in all hues.”

This rainbow-flag polity, Plato argues, is, for many people, the fairest of regimes. The freedom in that democracy has to be experienced to be believed — with shame and privilege in particular emerging over time as anathema. But it is inherently unstable. As the authority of elites fades, as Establishment values cede to popular ones, views and identities can become so magnificently diverse as to be mutually uncomprehending. And when all the barriers to equality, formal and informal, have been removed; when everyone is equal; when elites are despised and full license is established to do “whatever one wants,” you arrive at what might be called late-stage democracy. There is no kowtowing to authority here, let alone to political experience or expertise.


The very rich come under attack, as inequality becomes increasingly intolerable. Patriarchy is also dismantled: “We almost forgot to mention the extent of the law of equality and of freedom in the relations of women with men and men with women.” Family hierarchies are inverted: “A father habituates himself to be like his child and fear his sons, and a son habituates himself to be like his father and to have no shame before or fear of his parents.” In classrooms, “as the teacher ... is frightened of the pupils and fawns on them, so the students make light of their teachers.” Animals are regarded as equal to humans; the rich mingle freely with the poor in the streets and try to blend in. The foreigner is equal to the citizen.

And it is when a democracy has ripened as fully as this, Plato argues, that a would-be tyrant will often seize his moment.

He is usually of the elite but has a nature in tune with the time — given over to random pleasures and whims, feasting on plenty of food and sex, and reveling in the nonjudgment that is democracy’s civil religion. He makes his move by “taking over a particularly obedient mob” and attacking his wealthy peers as corrupt. If not stopped quickly, his appetite for attacking the rich on behalf of the people swells further. He is a traitor to his class — and soon, his elite enemies, shorn of popular legitimacy, find a way to appease him or are forced to flee. Eventually, he stands alone, promising to cut through the paralysis of democratic incoherence. It’s as if he were offering the addled, distracted, and self-indulgent citizens a kind of relief from democracy’s endless choices and insecurities. He rides a backlash to excess—“too much freedom seems to change into nothing but too much slavery” — and offers himself as the personified answer to the internal conflicts of the democratic mess. He pledges, above all, to take on the increasingly despised elites. And as the people thrill to him as a kind of solution, a democracy willingly, even impetuously, repeals itself.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23211 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 03:10:39
May 02 2016 03:09 GMT
#74262
On May 02 2016 03:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?


So if she won, in 4 years would she be the only viable candidate exploiting Citizens United still, or would she have eliminated her only path to have gotten the job in the first place?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15679 Posts
May 02 2016 03:31 GMT
#74263
On May 02 2016 12:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 03:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?


So if she won, in 4 years would she be the only viable candidate exploiting Citizens United still, or would she have eliminated her only path to have gotten the job in the first place?


I don't understand what you are asking.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 02 2016 03:38 GMT
#74264
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23211 Posts
May 02 2016 03:44 GMT
#74265
On May 02 2016 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 03:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?


So if she won, in 4 years would she be the only viable candidate exploiting Citizens United still, or would she have eliminated her only path to have gotten the job in the first place?


I don't understand what you are asking.


Well what did you mean by "there's no way in hell" she could have done "the Bernie thing"?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15679 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 03:52:23
May 02 2016 03:46 GMT
#74266
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.

On May 02 2016 12:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 03:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?


So if she won, in 4 years would she be the only viable candidate exploiting Citizens United still, or would she have eliminated her only path to have gotten the job in the first place?


I don't understand what you are asking.


Well what did you mean by "there's no way in hell" she could have done "the Bernie thing"?


I think that with Clinton's image, connections, entire political career, everything, she was poorly poised to make the same appeal as Bernie did. She would have a hard time convincing people she is a socialist who wants to take down banks.

Bernie had exactly the record he needed to play the persona he's playing. If Bernie tried to appeal to big donors, he would struggle. Neither of the two would have been able to do what the other did.

I think that saying Clinton should have done what Bernie did is ignoring that Clinton was poorly poised to do so and Bernie was well poised to do so. She didn't have the history he did, so she couldn't do it. Bernie and Trump are not exactly typical candidates. You shouldn't pretend Bernie and Trump are suddenly status quo and it is puzzling that others aren't funding their campaigns in the same way.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15679 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 03:52:18
May 02 2016 03:52 GMT
#74267
oops double post.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23211 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 04:14:41
May 02 2016 04:00 GMT
#74268
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.

Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:31 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 03:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?


So if she won, in 4 years would she be the only viable candidate exploiting Citizens United still, or would she have eliminated her only path to have gotten the job in the first place?


I don't understand what you are asking.


Well what did you mean by "there's no way in hell" she could have done "the Bernie thing"?


I think that with Clinton's image, connections, entire political career, everything, she was poorly poised to make the same appeal as Bernie did. She would have a hard time convincing people she is a socialist who wants to take down banks.

Bernie had exactly the record he needed to play the persona he's playing. If Bernie tried to appeal to big donors, he would struggle. Neither of the two would have been able to do what the other did.

I think that saying Clinton should have done what Bernie did is ignoring that Clinton was poorly poised to do so and Bernie was well poised to do so. She didn't have the history he did, so she couldn't do it. Bernie and Trump are not exactly typical candidates. You shouldn't pretend Bernie and Trump are suddenly status quo and it is puzzling that others aren't funding their campaigns in the same way.


To be clear, she is the only person using Citizens United like she is, no one else is or ever has. She is, right now, the most egregious exploiter of Citizens United on record. To act like she had to be, that there is no alternative, and that it's not indicative of a larger problem, isn't very honest either.

They did appeal to two different demographics, what seems to be causing confusion is whether we want a candidate that is dependent on using the finance system we all abhor. Seems to me we shouldn't nominate the worst abuser of Citizens United to be our champion against it. Then maybe we won't need to justify why Democrats are the ones abusing it worse than anyone else and explain away the coincidence of it not getting resolved for 4 years when it's something 2 out of 3 candidates already did 4 years ago.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15679 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 04:09:22
May 02 2016 04:09 GMT
#74269
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


Yes, public opinion and general political attitude changes a lot in 4 years. But big social change does not happen in 4 years at a *legal* level. How long did more than 50% of the country support gay marriage before the supreme court had to step in? Shit is impossible to do, it seems. I think slow chipping at the stone will accelerate thanks to Bernie and Trump both highlighting shadiness, corruptness and all that sort of shit. I think we are on a good path and I have no idea how long it will take for what to fix it.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 02 2016 04:10 GMT
#74270
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


High attendance in local elections is the only way to get it overturned. Get the house and senate Blue, get a Blue president, and then have the congressmen pressure the executive branch to push for the overturning of citizens united.

You know, actual politics and not danke memes.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 04:12:45
May 02 2016 04:12 GMT
#74271
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


The only way anything is really done in US... SCOTUS
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23211 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 04:25:35
May 02 2016 04:21 GMT
#74272
On May 02 2016 13:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


High attendance in local elections is the only way to get it overturned. Get the house and senate Blue, get a Blue president, and then have the congressmen pressure the executive branch to push for the overturning of citizens united.

You know, actual politics and not danke memes.



Why is it so absurd to ask Hillary to join the other two viable candidates in not having superPAC's and not coordinating with them, and not using her Victory Fund like she has?

I shouldn't have to convince the Democrat nominee to only exploit Citizens United as little as her Republican opponent (which, to date, is not at all).

Right now if I was a Trump supporter I could be making the argument that Trump needs to get a superPAC, otherwise he's unilaterally disarming against a Democratic nominee that embraces their corrupting influence. If that doesn't raise a flag for Democrats I don't know what could on the topic of campaign finance.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 02 2016 04:55 GMT
#74273
On May 02 2016 13:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 13:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


High attendance in local elections is the only way to get it overturned. Get the house and senate Blue, get a Blue president, and then have the congressmen pressure the executive branch to push for the overturning of citizens united.

You know, actual politics and not danke memes.



Why is it so absurd to ask Hillary to join the other two viable candidates in not having superPAC's and not coordinating with them, and not using her Victory Fund like she has?

I shouldn't have to convince the Democrat nominee to only exploit Citizens United as little as her Republican opponent (which, to date, is not at all).

Right now if I was a Trump supporter I could be making the argument that Trump needs to get a superPAC, otherwise he's unilaterally disarming against a Democratic nominee that embraces their corrupting influence. If that doesn't raise a flag for Democrats I don't know what could on the topic of campaign finance.


So you're saying that Hilary is more beholden to corporations than the guy who's corporation literally has his name on it?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23211 Posts
May 02 2016 05:09 GMT
#74274
On May 02 2016 13:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2016 13:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 13:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On May 02 2016 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:46 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

I don't think either Clinton or Bernie would have the ability to somehow get rid of money in politics in 4 years. I also think 4 years in the future is plainly silly to speculate about. Did we see this election coming 4 years ago? 4 years in politics is like a different era.


So four years is an "era", but not enough time to get something done that 2 out of the 3 viable presidential candidates are already doing and the other claims she supports, done? Don't think that quite adds up.

I'm curious who you think would stop it and how?


High attendance in local elections is the only way to get it overturned. Get the house and senate Blue, get a Blue president, and then have the congressmen pressure the executive branch to push for the overturning of citizens united.

You know, actual politics and not danke memes.



Why is it so absurd to ask Hillary to join the other two viable candidates in not having superPAC's and not coordinating with them, and not using her Victory Fund like she has?

I shouldn't have to convince the Democrat nominee to only exploit Citizens United as little as her Republican opponent (which, to date, is not at all).

Right now if I was a Trump supporter I could be making the argument that Trump needs to get a superPAC, otherwise he's unilaterally disarming against a Democratic nominee that embraces their corrupting influence. If that doesn't raise a flag for Democrats I don't know what could on the topic of campaign finance.


So you're saying that Hilary is more beholden to corporations than the guy who's corporation literally has his name on it?


I'm saying she's exploiting CU more than any other candidate ever and that makes her a bad champion for campaign finance reform. Trump and his supporters are going to point that out frequently. That should raise some flags for Democrats imo.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 02 2016 08:06 GMT
#74275
EL PASO -- Recent floods across Texas have inundated oil wells and fracking sites, flushing crude oil and toxic fracking chemicals into the state's rivers.

State emergency management officials have taken dozens of photographs that show sheens and plumes spreading from tipped tanks and flooded production sites during the March flood of the Sabine River on the Texas-Louisiana border. Earlier photos showed similar scenes from last year's floods of the Trinity, Red and Colorado rivers.

The Texas Railroad Commission, which regulates oil and gas drilling and production sites, said it has responded effectively to those incidents. "I'm confident that once the agency is notified, we're taking appropriate measures," commission spokesman Rich Parsons told the El Paso Times.

Scientists and environmentalists are not so sure. One leading expert, Dr. Walter Tsou, is a physician and past president of the American Public Health Association and published an article on an environmentalist website about the possible risks posed by the unleashing of fracking fluids in the environment.

"That's a potential disaster," Tsou told the Times. "I'm sure it will get into the groundwater and streams and creeks. In other areas, cattle that drank the fracking fluid actually died an hour after drinking it. There are potential carcinogens that can lead to leukemia, brain cancer and other endocrine disruptors that can affect premature births. So it is not good to drink fracked wastewater."

State emergency officials mobilize the Civil Air Patrol to photograph potential spills and leaks, and the Railroad Commission responds quickly to reports of spills or other releases, spokeswoman Ramona Nye said. "If a release or spill is identified, the agency dispatches an inspector to investigate. Alleged violations are documented and appropriate action is taken based on the nature of the alleged violation," she said.

Critics worry that the commission is soft on holding the oil and gas industry responsible for such incidents, since - according to one watchdog group's accounting - commissioners receive more than half of their campaign contributions from that sector. However, Nye insists that spill prevention is the commission's top priority, a statement echoed by Todd Staples, president of the Texas Oil and Gas Association.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 11:57:06
May 02 2016 11:46 GMT
#74276
a lot of the corporate money hysteria with hillary is just ignorance being easily mislead by radical factions that really do not like corporations existing. the greenpeace stuff demonizes individual contributions from a giant industry, draw flimsy connection to candidates from the work history of brief writing lobbist lawyers, and fail to contextualize the landscape of campaign finance in general. rubio and cruz swim in fossil fuel industry money but you wouldnt know that with the quixotic attempt to elect a fossil

also as a general matter the mixing of business interests in government is built into our government through audience and hearing of lobbying in various points of the government. legislators, agencies, thinktanks and academics with sponsored studies etc. you would have to resolve the reality that corporations are considered exercising their citizen rights to government hearing under a formalistic legal reading of the situation.

and people have no clue about the politics of particular organizations or people. soros would make leftists rather happy, dla piper is an international law firm that has state ties, the pritzkers etc are long time democrats etc. these guys dont want to oppress you, that hard. at the end of the day businesses are a part of our society and reform always need to leave some viable path to competitiveness for american businesses in their respectable fields. the hope is that the correct and healthy dynamic is encouraged.

the far left has no stakes in preserving the productive part of the status quo and this part of their ideology needs to be exposed. bolsheviks should never be allowed to hoodwink the public with the demagoguery
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 02 2016 12:30 GMT
#74277
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15679 Posts
May 02 2016 13:10 GMT
#74278
Marco is smart to realize the god-emporer can not be taken down by endorsements.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 02 2016 13:26 GMT
#74279
On May 02 2016 12:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's saying after 4 years and Citizens United is still active will you be pissed or glad that the Democrats who are in power are using it.

Its weird we are having a debate this debate again that was so fully fleshed out that it got covered by the West Wing like 5 times.. Democrats need to play within the system that exist. And suffer a ideological break down because they are pushing to limit funds, even though they are accepting them to win the election. You don't win elections via ideological purity.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-02 13:40:56
May 02 2016 13:40 GMT
#74280
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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