In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
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WASHINGTON — Donald Trump holds a double-digit lead over his Republican rivals in Indiana’s GOP primary, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll released Sunday.
Nearly half of the state’s likely Republican primary voters, 49 percent, said they support Trump, while 34 percent back Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and 13 percent support Ohio Gov. John Kasich.
With less than three days left before Hoosiers go to the polls on Tuesday, Trump’s 15-point lead over his nearest rival is the latest sign that the GOP front-runner has a realistic shot at amassing the 1,237 delegates needed to win the nomination outright.
Indiana awards a total of 57 Republican primary delegates, 30 to the winner statewide, and another 27 to the winners of its nine congressional districts. Trump currently has 996 pledged delegates.
It’s difficult to overstate the significance of Indiana to the “Stop Trump” movement. Home to large blocs of socially conservative and evangelical Republicans, Indiana is widely seen as the last state in the nominating process where Cruz stands a chance of defeating Trump.
“The entire country is looking to Indiana,” Cruz said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “And I think the country is really depending on Indiana to choose the direction of this race.”
The new poll also reveals that a last-minute plan hatched by the Cruz and Kasich campaigns to cut into Trump’s support may have backfired.
And this is during his desperate plea for people to help him win NY.
This election, both parties were dealt a demagogue ready to give us the world if only we were willing to demonize a certain group. The democratic party has made me proud by having the collective sense to realize that while we support many of his ideas, Bernie is ultimately bad for our country as president.
Cheers, my fellow progressives!
Why? Also, the article explains that even though it's less than last month, it's still nearly $10M above the monthly average for his campaign.
Sure, above the average because he used to be polling at like 4%. His funding has been growing pretty much this entire time. And the funding pushes were massive to try to somehow do ok in NY. And after losing so bad in the NE, this news is going to discourage people from donating more. We're going to see both Sanders and Cruz supporters having particularly low turnout in Indiana after a series of morale killing news cycles. He just keeps losing things he says he's gonna win. S4P is even losing a ton of focus. Its less about mobilizing and more about optimistic articles. The whole thing is falling apart because it had no core to begin with. This is a like 41% decrease. That's totally insane. People dropped him bad.
Okay, but can you please answer me why you think Bernie is bad for our country as president?
Out of all conversations our forum is had, this is perhaps the subject I have spoken on in the most depth. I just can't bring myself to type up the detail I have so far, but you may be able to argue me into elaborating.
In short:
1. If we were to call governance some kinda class where people study and learn how to do things. How to regulate, legislate, make things happen, etc. I think Bernie would score poorly compared to Clinton. Looking at their LinkedIn profile, I would hire Clinton before even scheduling an interview with Bernie. You can disagree with what she did as SoS, but I think she gained a ton of value experience and will have more knowledge with which to make future decisions in terms of governance. It's not just that Clinton is great. It's also that Bernie has been a 1 trick pony his entire political career (something he somehow tries to spin as positive). He comes across as so wildly ignorant in so many interviews I just can't see past it.
2. Bernie takes stances, openly, which say "We have tried to work with ___ and tried to get ____. We can't get half of what we want? That's it. I want all of it. I want every fucking bit because I am tired of compromising my values!". That's the thinking that shut down the government, 100%. I can't support someone who lets themselves think like that. It isn't logical or reasonable in any way. It is principled, but I don't think being principled is intrinsically good. I think Bernie is a perfect example of when being principled is a bad thing.
On May 02 2016 01:56 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 02 2016 01:43 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 02 2016 01:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 02 2016 01:31 Mohdoo wrote: [quote]
WOOOHOOO!!!
And this is during his desperate plea for people to help him win NY.
This election, both parties were dealt a demagogue ready to give us the world if only we were willing to demonize a certain group. The democratic party has made me proud by having the collective sense to realize that while we support many of his ideas, Bernie is ultimately bad for our country as president.
Cheers, my fellow progressives!
Why? Also, the article explains that even though it's less than last month, it's still nearly $10M above the monthly average for his campaign.
Sure, above the average because he used to be polling at like 4%. His funding has been growing pretty much this entire time. And the funding pushes were massive to try to somehow do ok in NY. And after losing so bad in the NE, this news is going to discourage people from donating more. We're going to see both Sanders and Cruz supporters having particularly low turnout in Indiana after a series of morale killing news cycles. He just keeps losing things he says he's gonna win. S4P is even losing a ton of focus. Its less about mobilizing and more about optimistic articles. The whole thing is falling apart because it had no core to begin with. This is a like 41% decrease. That's totally insane. People dropped him bad.
I'm guessing the reason Hillary isn't running any ads in upcoming states and has 20 primary fundraisers over the next week is because her donor base is so much stronger?
How many fundraiser events has either had, and who is raising more money for their campaign and from who again?
As for Wilmore, that performance wasn't for you guys or the people in that audience (most of them anyway), black people, for the most part, thought that was the funniest Wilmore's ever been.
You're the only one here who doesn't realize the primary election is over. It is all posturing from here. The fact that you keep thinking Clinton needs to clinch the nomination before the convention is so telling. You just have no sense of what is realistic and what isn't. If Hilary Clinton has a single delegate above Bernie, she will receive an overwhelming number of delegates. The DNC is strongly against Bernie for a variety of reasons. Many of which I think are shared opinions with myself. Bernie's only hope is majority. That is gone. It really, really is gone.
So if it's over why does she have 20 fundraising events this week for it? She doesn't realize it's over too, or she is posturing that she'll still be dependent on big money donors in the general too?
She'll still be dependent on big money donors in the general election. That's a given. That's how things are done and how they will continue to be done this election. Maybe even the next one. Big money behind the left and the right is going to be how this election goes. This is nothing new, it shouldn't be hard for you to imagine.
There's someone outraising her without them, she's the only viable candidate using the corrupting citizens united case to her advantage. To act as if it is a necessary evil ignores that she's being outraised by someone who isn't exploiting it.
That doesn't matter at all. Bernie lost the election because of reasons that have nothing to do with fundraising. He didn't get enough votes and we are going to use the system the person with the most votes uses. How in the world do you keep feeling like you are making a point? He lost and his system of getting elected is poor and ineffective. Now that he can't hit the majority, we are moving on to the general election. His message didn't resonate well enough and the Clinton campaign waged a strong war against him, done just right. She played the game right and the north east gave our glorious goddess the final bump she needed.
So despite someone proving that Hillary didn't need to exploit citizens united we're all supposed to accept that she's justified in her exploitation of it?
No she shouldn't have used it, and no it's not "just how things are" If Bernie and Trump were the nominees neither would have used it, so there would be no justification to start using it in the general. With Hillary as the nominee Trump would be given the opportunity to whack her for using it, then get his own and claim he is defending himself against Democrats exploiting citizens united (and he'd be right).
"glorious goddess" lol.
I'd rather get 2-3 million more votes than a few thousand more contributors.
Gh, do you think Clinton, with her existing image, could have done the Bernie thing? I think there's no way in hell. You are being dishonest by suggesting she should have done what Bernie did. It would have minimized her strengths and maximized her weaknesses. It would be no different than Bernie trying to appeal to big donors. You are making silly suggestions knowing they make no sense. Bernie, is that you?
hillary could have captured the youth energy with positional advantage pitting her vs a republican candidate. instead you have this fossilized hippie yelling about corruption and derailing any meaningful effort to discuss substantial steps needed to move from the basis of obama.
the amount of energy wasted is directly laid at the feet of the left. muh overthrow global capitalism or riot
On May 02 2016 03:31 oneofthem wrote: hillary could have captured the youth energy with positional advantage pitting her vs a republican candidate. instead you have this fossilized hippie yelling about corruption and derailing any meaningful effort to discuss substantial steps needed to move from the basis of obama.
the amount of energy wasted is directly laid at the feet of the left. muh overthrow global capitalism or riot
I disagree. I think Bernie had a great opening because Clinton has never done well with youth and represents a lot of what young democrats want. I do think there is a lot of legitimacy to what GH says regarding young democrats. All of us want what Bernie speak to: Healthcare, education and a decrease in income inequality. There are just a lot of us very skeptical of his efficacy and his depth.
I think having a candidate from the democratic party finally speak to these ideals is wonderful. The democratic party has been overdue for a shift left and it is finally happening. He's a really great martyr. As long as he doesn't run as an independent, I think this is a net positive for the party.
On May 02 2016 03:31 oneofthem wrote: hillary could have captured the youth energy with positional advantage pitting her vs a republican candidate. instead you have this fossilized hippie yelling about corruption and derailing any meaningful effort to discuss substantial steps needed to move from the basis of obama.
the amount of energy wasted is directly laid at the feet of the left. muh overthrow global capitalism or riot
I disagree. I think Bernie had a great opening because Clinton has never done well with youth and represents a lot of what young democrats want. I do think there is a lot of legitimacy to what GH says regarding young democrats. All of us want what Bernie speak to: Healthcare, education and a decrease in income inequality. There are just a lot of us very skeptical of his efficacy and his depth.
I think having a candidate from the democratic party finally speak to these ideals is wonderful. The democratic party has been overdue for a shift left and it is finally happening. He's a really great martyr. As long as he doesn't run as an independent, I think this is a net positive for the party.
Bernie is proving that America is not ready for a shift to the left.
And yes a lot of young people are but they are not the majority, if they stay left as they grow older and the upcoming generations are left then in a decade or so they can try again.
Hopefully with someone a little more charismatic then Bernie.
On May 02 2016 03:31 oneofthem wrote: hillary could have captured the youth energy with positional advantage pitting her vs a republican candidate. instead you have this fossilized hippie yelling about corruption and derailing any meaningful effort to discuss substantial steps needed to move from the basis of obama.
the amount of energy wasted is directly laid at the feet of the left. muh overthrow global capitalism or riot
I disagree. I think Bernie had a great opening because Clinton has never done well with youth and represents a lot of what young democrats want. I do think there is a lot of legitimacy to what GH says regarding young democrats. All of us want what Bernie speak to: Healthcare, education and a decrease in income inequality. There are just a lot of us very skeptical of his efficacy and his depth.
I think having a candidate from the democratic party finally speak to these ideals is wonderful. The democratic party has been overdue for a shift left and it is finally happening. He's a really great martyr. As long as he doesn't run as an independent, I think this is a net positive for the party.
Bernie is proving that America is not ready for a shift to the left.
And yes a lot of young people are but they are not the majority, if they stay left as they grow older and the upcoming generations are left then in a decade or so they can try again.
True, but these people needed to be spoken to. They couldn't just keep being ignored. Someone on the democratic side was finally able to say everything Bernie said. Young people wanted to hear it. Bernie being a democrat really helps our party be the party that carries that torch, not a 3rd party.
By many (I would say most) metrics, the american younger generation already constitutes a shift to the left. The issues I personally have are a) Bernie represents a too radical immediate shift for it to really be plausible, thus I feel that his presidency would inevitably be disappointing (more so than normal presidencies) and b) Bernie's policy suggestions and rhetoric are more simplistic than what I would expect from a candidate I want to support.
I certainly think his run has had a positive effect through moving the discourse leftwards and highlighting some important issues that a lot of people clearly care a lot about, but ultimately, even though I have voted for politicians left of Bernie every election of my life, I'm happy to see Hillary end up as the candidate, and hopefully the president.
this is in a situation where the young hamsters dont know about any of hillary's positions and her positive platform/message is not exposed except through misrepresentations. on stuff like education and minimum wage hillary has pretty respectable policies that represent major improvements while sanders is basically a raving lunatic. but some people cant tell between what is going and going too far.
hillary has a platform page for every grnuine issue sanders has raised, except nobody even knows.
beyond any sort of unique attention raising samders just brings ignorance and demagoguery that serve to distract.
On May 02 2016 03:31 oneofthem wrote: hillary could have captured the youth energy with positional advantage pitting her vs a republican candidate. instead you have this fossilized hippie yelling about corruption and derailing any meaningful effort to discuss substantial steps needed to move from the basis of obama.
the amount of energy wasted is directly laid at the feet of the left. muh overthrow global capitalism or riot
I disagree. I think Bernie had a great opening because Clinton has never done well with youth and represents a lot of what young democrats want. I do think there is a lot of legitimacy to what GH says regarding young democrats. All of us want what Bernie speak to: Healthcare, education and a decrease in income inequality. There are just a lot of us very skeptical of his efficacy and his depth.
I think having a candidate from the democratic party finally speak to these ideals is wonderful. The democratic party has been overdue for a shift left and it is finally happening. He's a really great martyr. As long as he doesn't run as an independent, I think this is a net positive for the party.
Bernie is proving that America is not ready for a shift to the left.
And yes a lot of young people are but they are not the majority, if they stay left as they grow older and the upcoming generations are left then in a decade or so they can try again.
True, but these people needed to be spoken to. They couldn't just keep being ignored. Someone on the democratic side was finally able to say everything Bernie said. Young people wanted to hear it. Bernie being a democrat really helps our party be the party that carries that torch, not a 3rd party.
Any 3e party that captured these voters would have been absorbed by the Democrats anyway, just like Bernie joined the Democrats.
On May 02 2016 04:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So what's stopping her speaking on such platforms she supports? That and isn't that what Primaries are for?
Too busy doing this:
I really dislike Trump and what he personifies, and what makes it worse is that he might have a chance against Hillary. Coming from a swing state, I thought he was going to lose the primary election in my state because I had never met anyone locally who supported him. However, he won my county and the surrounding counties, and even the state by a convincing margin. I don't know if his supporters are a group of people who just don't speak loudly about their political views or what, but clearly there are quite a few more than anyone expected. Not to mention who knows who will win when you have two candidates who both have such high negative opinion ratings.
On May 02 2016 04:01 oneofthem wrote: this is in a situation where the young hamsters dont know about any of hillary's positions and her positive platform/message is not exposed except through misrepresentations. on stuff like education and minimum wage hillary has pretty respectable policies that represent major improvements while sanders is basically a raving lunatic. but some people cant tell between what is going and going too far.
hillary has a platform page for every grnuine issue sanders has raised, except nobody even knows.
beyond any sort of unique attention raising samders just brings ignorance and demagoguery that serve to distract.
On May 02 2016 05:19 farvacola wrote: If "them" are the people in charge of the Democratic Party one can only hope that oneofthem is, in fact, not one of them.
Based on how the primary has been going, I suspect it's a similar attitude up there.
On May 02 2016 04:01 oneofthem wrote: this is in a situation where the young hamsters dont know about any of hillary's positions and her positive platform/message is not exposed except through misrepresentations. on stuff like education and minimum wage hillary has pretty respectable policies that represent major improvements while sanders is basically a raving lunatic. but some people cant tell between what is going and going too far.
hillary has a platform page for every grnuine issue sanders has raised, except nobody even knows.
beyond any sort of unique attention raising samders just brings ignorance and demagoguery that serve to distract.
weren't you the one who wanted to shine Jim Webb's shoes a few months ago?
On May 02 2016 04:01 oneofthem wrote: this is in a situation where the young hamsters dont know about any of hillary's positions and her positive platform/message is not exposed except through misrepresentations. on stuff like education and minimum wage hillary has pretty respectable policies that represent major improvements while sanders is basically a raving lunatic. but some people cant tell between what is going and going too far.
hillary has a platform page for every grnuine issue sanders has raised, except nobody even knows.
beyond any sort of unique attention raising samders just brings ignorance and demagoguery that serve to distract.
weren't you the one who wanted to shine Jim Webb's shoes a few months ago?
relative to the reaction webb got yea he was better but he is no longer on the radar
On May 02 2016 04:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So what's stopping her speaking on such platforms she supports? That and isn't that what Primaries are for?
she has, but it is drowned out by sanders nonsense.
in a universe where cost of living adjusted 12 dollar fed minimum wage is rightwing before a clueless electorate playing policy will get you wrecked. talking policy is always the strategy i prefer but with some people she cant win. if you want better policy discussion on the left stop being so ideological.
and evaluating the value of the sanders campaign is an exercise independent from deciding what to do with the sandernistas. a party strategist is obviously going to want to get these votes but im not constrained by all that. fact is the misrepresentations touted by the bernie campaign rest on ignorance of both policy and actual candidate positions and it has been a damaging movement
EPT
