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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18870 Posts
July 30 2013 17:29 GMT
#7201
On July 31 2013 02:22 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.

You're saying that there is no reason for him to keep up to date on the laws he is meant to enforce. That is silly.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44398 Posts
July 30 2013 17:35 GMT
#7202
On July 31 2013 02:22 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.

He has a ton of work on his desk every day but also has nothing better to do than arrest adults for having sex with other consenting adults? Really?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 17:58:42
July 30 2013 17:57 GMT
#7203
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 30 2013 18:05 GMT
#7204
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.
#2throwed
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
July 30 2013 18:11 GMT
#7205
On July 31 2013 03:05 Klondikebar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.

I agree... and I don't know the answer to my question and you didn't answer it so...
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 30 2013 18:12 GMT
#7206
On July 31 2013 03:11 mordek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 03:05 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.

I agree... and I don't know the answer to my question and you didn't answer it so...


Well he has the authority to arrest people so it would follow that it is his responsibility to know applicable laws.
#2throwed
renoB
Profile Joined June 2012
United States170 Posts
July 30 2013 18:17 GMT
#7207
Qualified Immunity

Qualified immunity, when applicable, shields government officials from liability for the violation of an individual's federal constitutional rights. This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate "clearly established law."


It's kind of stupid because as citizens we get the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" line from cops handing out tickets, yet if they are ignorant of the law, they are potentially immune.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 00:05:31
July 31 2013 00:03 GMT
#7208
HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — Connecticut environmental officials are warning of dire consequences from climate change that will affect agriculture, dams and levees, waterfront habitats and public health.

For example, sea level rise will leave Hammonasset Beach State Park, among Connecticut's most popular state parks, mostly inundated by sea water by the end of the century, according to a new report by the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection.

Most agriculture in Connecticut is likely to be "highly impacted" by climate change "and most of these potential impacts are negative," Monday's report said.

Maple syrup, dairy, warm weather produce, shellfish and apple and pear production will be affected by changes in temperature and the abundance of rain or lack of it, which could reduce production yields, lead to contamination of agricultural goods such as shellfish and the need for costly infrastructure to compensate for the damage.

Climate change is "going to require some adaptation," said Agriculture Commissioner Steven Reviczky.

"You can see what's happening," he said. "The intensity of storms is pretty significant. The damage has been equally significant."

Connecticut was hit by three major storms in 14 months: Tropical Storm Irene in August 2011, followed by a freak nor'easter two months later and Superstorm Sandy in late October 2012. This summer, four tornadoes touched down in Connecticut, with one storm in north-central Connecticut on July 1 damaging tobacco netting and other farm equipment, buildings and crops.

The report said climate changes are projected to be less in the Northeast, particularly for rain and snow, than the rest of the country. Connecticut agriculture as a result can take advantage of the projected longer growing season.

The legislature required the Governor's Steering Committee on Climate Change to evaluate the projected impacts of climate change on agriculture, infrastructure, natural resources and public health and develop strategies to reduce the impacts.

Infrastructure would be most affected by changes in storms and rising sea level, which could cause substantial structural damage. Efforts and technology would be costly to reduce the impact of the damage, the report said.

In addition, natural resources most at risk from climate change are cold water streams, tidal marshes, open water marine areas, beaches and dunes, freshwater wetlands, offshore islands, major rivers and forested swamps.


Source


WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top environmental official wasted no time Tuesday taking on opponents of the administration's plan to crack down on global warming pollution.

In her first speech as the head of EPA, Gina McCarthy told an audience gathered at Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Mass., that curbing climate-altering pollution will spark business innovation, grow jobs and strengthen the economy. The message was classic Obama, who has long said that the environment and the economy aren't in conflict and has sold ambitious plans to reduce greenhouse gases as a means to jumpstart a clean energy economy.

McCarthy signaled Tuesday that she was ready for the fight, saying that the agency would continue issuing new rules, regardless of claims by Republicans and industry groups that under Obama the EPA has been the most aggressive and overreaching since it was formed more than 40 years ago.

"Can we stop talking about environmental regulations killing jobs? Please, at least for today," said McCarthy, referring to one of the favorite talking points of Republicans and industry groups.

"Let's talk about this as an opportunity of a lifetime, because there are too many lifetimes at stake," she said of efforts to address global warming.

In Obama's first four years, the EPA has issued the first-ever limits on toxic mercury pollution from power plants, regulated greenhouse gases for the first time, and updated a host of air pollution health standards.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
July 31 2013 00:05 GMT
#7209
On July 31 2013 02:35 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 02:22 Sermokala wrote:
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.

He has a ton of work on his desk every day but also has nothing better to do than arrest adults for having sex with other consenting adults? Really?

His job is to enforce the law not make it or criticize it. Do you want every cop out there to just say which laws they'll force people to follow and which ones they don't want them to follow?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
July 31 2013 00:07 GMT
#7210
On July 31 2013 03:12 Klondikebar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 03:11 mordek wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:05 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.

I agree... and I don't know the answer to my question and you didn't answer it so...


Well he has the authority to arrest people so it would follow that it is his responsibility to know applicable laws.

How is he suppose to know if the laws change if no one tells him or makes any effort in informing anyone that the laws change. You're really not getting the massive disconect between how laws are made and how they're enforced
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 31 2013 00:10 GMT
#7211
On July 31 2013 09:07 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 03:12 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:11 mordek wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:05 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.

I agree... and I don't know the answer to my question and you didn't answer it so...


Well he has the authority to arrest people so it would follow that it is his responsibility to know applicable laws.

How is he suppose to know if the laws change if no one tells him or makes any effort in informing anyone that the laws change. You're really not getting the massive disconect between how laws are made and how they're enforced


You don't think maybe it's the sheriff's job to keep up to date on major supreme court case rulings?
#2throwed
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
July 31 2013 00:14 GMT
#7212
On July 31 2013 03:17 renoB wrote:
Qualified Immunity

Show nested quote +
Qualified immunity, when applicable, shields government officials from liability for the violation of an individual's federal constitutional rights. This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate "clearly established law."


It's kind of stupid because as citizens we get the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" line from cops handing out tickets, yet if they are ignorant of the law, they are potentially immune.


I think this sounds like a reasonable clause depending on how high the burden of proof is on "clearly established law". The fact that sodomy laws are not enforceable is about as well known as the fact that slavery is illegal. His claim of ignorance only holds any water because most people in America are still uncomfortable with LGBT issues. On the other hand, if they need to prove that it is impossible for him not to know then the aforementioned rule is basically a golden parachute.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 31 2013 00:16 GMT
#7213
On July 31 2013 09:10 Klondikebar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 09:07 Sermokala wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:12 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:11 mordek wrote:
On July 31 2013 03:05 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 31 2013 02:57 mordek wrote:
He did know what the law was, it was still on the books

Not that I don't think the situation is really dumb but is that honestly the sheriff's responsibility? I for one don't know.


If it's not his responsibility to know applicable laws, then he doesn't have the authority to arrest people for violating them.

I agree... and I don't know the answer to my question and you didn't answer it so...


Well he has the authority to arrest people so it would follow that it is his responsibility to know applicable laws.

How is he suppose to know if the laws change if no one tells him or makes any effort in informing anyone that the laws change. You're really not getting the massive disconect between how laws are made and how they're enforced


You don't think maybe it's the sheriff's job to keep up to date on major supreme court case rulings?

I wonder how many black men he's arrested in an attempt to return them to their owners.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44398 Posts
July 31 2013 01:31 GMT
#7214
On July 31 2013 09:05 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 02:35 KwarK wrote:
On July 31 2013 02:22 Sermokala wrote:
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.

He has a ton of work on his desk every day but also has nothing better to do than arrest adults for having sex with other consenting adults? Really?

His job is to enforce the law not make it or criticize it. Do you want every cop out there to just say which laws they'll force people to follow and which ones they don't want them to follow?

Yes, clearly that is what I want. My response pointing out that your "he's too busy to know how to do his job" argument was dumb was actually a suggestion that we should do away with the concept of law altogether,

Alternatively, if he's not so busy he can't leave his desk then maybe he should keep up to date about what the laws he's meant to be enforcing are and which ones have been ruled unconstitutional. Like some kind of middle ground between enforcing everything and enforcing nothing where he enforces the ones which are actually legal, like, you know, what his job is. This is simply police incompetence. The argument "well I don't know what the law is" doesn't fly when you're a police officer, you should have known.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
July 31 2013 01:31 GMT
#7215
It's not like they were just wandering around and found some guys having sex and arrested them for it. It said it was a sting operation. As in, there was at least some effort put into arresting these guys, and the sting operation itself was illegal.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 31 2013 02:59 GMT
#7216
Bolded the best part. Granted that Christie is over reaching and it could come back to haunt him it is still hilarious.

LITTLE FERRY, N.J. -- New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie doesn't appear to want his war of words with Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul to end anytime soon.

Christie fired back at Paul on Tuesday for Paul's remark that New Jersey has a "Gimme, gimme, gimme" attitude about federal aid for Superstorm Sandy.

Paul said at a fundraiser in Nashville on Sunday that Christie and New York Rep. Peter King – both Republicans like Paul – "are the people who are bankrupting the government and not letting enough money be left over for national defense."

Speaking at a news conference to announce homeowner grants for northern New Jersey residents affected by Sandy, Christie said he "has nothing personal" against Paul but offered the following:

"I find it interesting that Sen. Paul is accusing us of having a "Gimme, gimme, gimme" attitude toward federal spending when in fact New Jersey is a donor state and we get 61 cents back on every dollar we send to Washington. Interestingly, Kentucky gets $1.51 on every dollar they send to Washington," he said.

"So if Sen. Paul wants to start looking at where he's going to cut spending to afford defense, maybe he should start looking at the pork barrel spending he brings home to Kentucky."

The spat between the two Republicans many consider potential 2016 presidential hopefuls began when they differed over warrantless surveillance programs. Paul is against them, while Christie says they are needed for national security.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 31 2013 03:13 GMT
#7217
After hearing enough of him, I think I'd be okay with a Christie presidency with a Democrat congress. Sadly, I think it's much more likely to be the other way around.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 31 2013 03:51 GMT
#7218
Emails obtained by The Associated Press show Bennett and his staff scrambled last fall to ensure influential donor Christel DeHaan's school received an "A," despite poor test scores in algebra that initially earned it a "C."

"They need to understand that anything less than an A for Christel House compromises all of our accountability work," Bennett wrote in a Sept. 12 email to then-chief of staff Heather Neal, who is now Gov. Mike Pence's chief lobbyist.

The emails, which also show Bennett discussed with staff the legality of changing just DeHaan's grade, raise unsettling questions about the validity of a grading system that has broad implications. Indiana uses the A-F grades to determine which schools get taken over by the state and whether students seeking state-funded vouchers to attend private school need to first spend a year in public school. They also help determine how much state funding schools receive.

...

Bennett called the situation "very frustrating and disappointing" in an email that day.

"I am more than a little miffed about this," Bennett wrote. "I hope we come to the meeting today with solutions and not excuses and/or explanations for me to wiggle myself out of the repeated lies I have told over the past six months."

Bennett said Monday that email expressed his frustration at having assured top-performing schools like DeHaan's would be recognized in the grading system, but coming away with a flawed formula that would undo his promises.

When Bennett requested a status update Sept. 14, his staff alerted him that the new school grade, a 3.50, was painfully close to an "A." Then-deputy chief of staff Marcie Brown wrote that the state might not be able to "legally" change the cutoff for an "A."

"We can revise the rule," Bennett responded.

Over the next week, his top staff worked arduously to get Christel House its "A." By Sept. 21, Christel House had jumped to a 3.75. Gubera resigned shortly afterward.

Source
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 31 2013 05:00 GMT
#7219
Report: IRS Scrutiny Worse For Conservatives

House Republicans investigating IRS targeting of groups for extra scrutiny say they have proof conservatives had it worse.

A House Ways and Means Committee staff analysis of the applications of 111 conservative and progressive groups applying for tax exempt status found conservative applicants faced, "more questions, more denials, more delays," says committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich.

That is, when the IRS sent groups letters asking for further information, conservative groups were asked more questions — on average, three times more. All of the groups with "progressive" in their name were ultimately approved, while only 46 percent of conservative groups won approval. Others are still waiting for an answer or gave up. ...

Source
Link to data chart.

Still early in the analysis, so nothing is conclusive yet.

WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 31 2013 06:35 GMT
#7220
On July 31 2013 14:00 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Report: IRS Scrutiny Worse For Conservatives

House Republicans investigating IRS targeting of groups for extra scrutiny say they have proof conservatives had it worse.

A House Ways and Means Committee staff analysis of the applications of 111 conservative and progressive groups applying for tax exempt status found conservative applicants faced, "more questions, more denials, more delays," says committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich.

That is, when the IRS sent groups letters asking for further information, conservative groups were asked more questions — on average, three times more. All of the groups with "progressive" in their name were ultimately approved, while only 46 percent of conservative groups won approval. Others are still waiting for an answer or gave up. ...

Source
Link to data chart.

Still early in the analysis, so nothing is conclusive yet.


There's a pretty good Chicken-and-Egg argument here.

Is it because they're conservative that they're scrutinized more and approved less...or is it because there's a trend of them being approved less (because they don't meet qualifications) that conservative groups are scrutinized more.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
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